Englishman John Locke is the real Father of America

"Bacon, Locke and Newton ... I consider them as the three greatest men that have ever lived, without any exception, and as having laid the foundation of those superstructures which have been raised in the Physical and Moral sciences" - Thomas Jefferson

Everyone knows that Thomas Jefferson was selected to compose the original draft of The Declaration of Independance. The Declaration of Independance was the formal declaration that the 13 colonies that were at war with Great Britian, no longer considered themselves to be part of the British Empire.

Thomas Jefferson was heavily influenced by John Locke. The Declaration Of Independance is heavily influenced by John Lockes 'second treatise of government'

John Locke also influenced the American Constitition.

John Locke is the Intellectual Father of America.

John Locke is the father of libertarianism.

America is not possible without John Locke.

John Locke is more important than any godlike Founding Father. Since many Americans believe that their founding fathers were some kind of gods, I wonder why American dont worship John Locke.

On the next 4th of July, every American should think of Englishman John Locke, the Father of America.

en.wikipedia.org...
johnlocke.org...

America stole the idea for the Second ammendment from England btw if you didnt know that.
en.wikipedia.org...

I've always admired John Locke.

He's the father of Liberalism as well

reply to post by spangledbanner

Jefferson composed the original draft ??
well, that's been disputed forever.

and some would say it originated via Thomas Paine.
don't suppose you've realized that they were all Englishmen who were dissatisifed with English rule ?

and no, why would we thank one influential person when even Jefferson held 3 in his highest regard ? mabe this would help clear the cobwebs in your cranium ?? www.amazon.com...

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by spangledbanner

 

Jefferson composed the original draft ??
well, that's been disputed forever.

and some would say it originated via Thomas Paine.
don't suppose you've realized that they were all Englishmen who were dissatisifed with English rule ?

and no, why would we thank one influential person when even Jefferson held 3 in his highest regard ? mabe this would help clear the cobwebs in your cranium ?? www.amazon.com...

Paine or jefferson, do you deny the influence of Lockes thinking in relation to the American Constitution and the Declaration of Independence?

Dont you think he is gossed over a little?

And not all had English ancestory. There were some from Ireland and Scotland. Pedantic I know. They were British.

And do you hear Jefferson described as an Englishman? No. Locke? Yes.

What makes me mad is that all that great philosophy, all those ideals, took root and flourished in the new world, but were trashed and burnt here, leaving ordinary people as little better than slaves until very recently.

reply to post by spangledbanner


John Locke is a very interesting character, especially if you understand the Island on the show "Lost" was Earth...
John Locke started a revolution, a breakaway society from the first..
In light of that I'll have to read up on ol Locke.. Thanks for the op..

Originally posted by Dustytoad
reply to post by spangledbanner

 

John Locke is a very interesting character, especially if you understand the Island on the show "Lost" was Earth...
John Locke started a revolution, a breakaway society from the first..

Ha! I hate that damn show.

The island was earth?

Maybe we shouldn't hold those people in any regard, but rather consider the merits and flaws of their ideas. This seeming obsession with historical ideologues is (and forgive the religious connotation, but it's true) really a form of idol worship. Calling Thomas Jefferson a hypocrite is blasphemy to Tea Party types, for instance, taking offense at the fallibility of the man due to their reverence for certain ideas (conveniently excluding others) he espoused.

How about we, on the Fourth of July, instead of revering the founding fathers or other historical figures or events, consider the nature of human liberty and its current state in our civilization. Let's consider the nature of the state itself; of economy and ecology; of how our own actions either contribute to or inhibit human liberty.

The ideas are important, not the dead white men who happened to write them down first.

reply to post by NthOther

Maybe we shouldn't hold those people in any regard, but rather consider the merits and flaws of their ideas. This seeming obsession with historical ideologues is (and forgive the religious connotation, but it's true) really a form of idol worship

Thanks man. I guess thats what I am getting at. You get there without being obnoxious.

reply to post by spangledbanner

no, i deny the title of this thread though, fully.

"englishman john locke is the real father of america" ... hardly.

i don't deny the influence of his writings but i would never consider him an author of the DoI or a FF of this country.
either of those claims would be completely false.

why would he be "glossed" ?? or gossed over a little ?
he wasn't a rebel, he wasn't an American and he didn't fight for American independence, so why would i consider him such a grand influence ?

Irish & Scottish sure, but, no British as there was no Great Britain back then.
to me, they were all 'rebels', regardless their origin.

Jefferson was born in America (Virginia), on American soil ... Locke ? hardly.

perhaps i'm not following your train of thought but if you're invoking ghosts as influence, why not invoke that of Vlad the Impaler ??
at least that would more closely represent the actions of our current administration and at least Obama is a blood relation.

Originally posted by spangledbanner


Ha! I hate that damn show.

The island was earth?

John Locke from Lost

In the first season of the show, Locke is introduced as a mysterious, intellectual and stoic character with an affinity for living out in the wild, a penchant for hunting and tracking. He believes in mystical and spiritual explanations for why things happen on the island due to a self-described "miracle" happening to him after the crash of Oceanic 815. His stoicism and mystical outlook dominate his character and are the basis for many of his relationships and interactions on the show.

Yes.. It's a bit too much to explain here, but just to your op John Locke basically starts America in the Show.. This was in season 5 or 6? In the first episode, or maybe it was the second one of season one, he holds up two pieces to a game called backgammon. One is white and one is black, and he gets all philosophical about good and evil..

That starts the show. Right after everyone who had lessons to learn fell from the sky like fallen angels.

The show is about Earth, Heaven, psychology, Quantum mechanics, Time, and The Way. Probably the deepest show I had ever seen, but I refused to watch it since it sounded so dumb. It was only after the 6th season that I met my gf and she made me watch it.

Every character is some philosopher or someone from the bible.. Or just some direct reference like "Christian Shepherd"

Anyway..

John Locke

John Locke FRS (play /ˈlɒk/; 29 August 1632 – 28 October 1704), widely known as the Father of Classical Liberalism,[2][3][4] was an English philosopher and physician regarded as one of the most influential of Enlightenment thinkers. Considered one of the first of the British empiricists, following the tradition of Francis Bacon, he is equally important to social contract theory. His work had a great impact upon the development of epistemology and political philosophy. His writings influenced Voltaire and Rousseau, many Scottish Enlightenment thinkers, as well as the American revolutionaries. His contributions to classical republicanism and liberal theory are reflected in the United States Declaration of Independence.[5]

Rousseau was also a character in the show referenced above as someone the real John Locke influenced.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau (French: [ʒɑ̃ʒak ʁuso]; 28 June 1712 – 2 July 1778) was a Genevan philosopher, writer, and composer of 18th-century Romanticism of French expression. His political philosophy influenced the French Revolution as well as the overall development of modern political, sociological, and educational thought.

Real Rousseau

And

The character, who is commonly known as "The French Woman" among the survivors on the island, is introduced early in the first season. Sixteen years prior to the plane crash, Rousseau was a member of a French research vessel, whose ship ran aground on the island. Two months after being stranded, Rousseau gave birth to her daughter Alex (Tania Raymonde)

Rousseau in Lost


Its all so perfect when you pay close attention..

reply to post by Dustytoad


Wow.

You changed my mind. I will have to watch it now. Thanks?

edit- I started watching with my ex but I got frustrated with something and axed it. I had no idea it was worth watching.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by spangledbanner

 

no, i deny the title of this thread though, fully.

"englishman john locke is the real father of america" ... hardly.

i don't deny the influence of his writings but i would never consider him an author of the DoI or a FF of this country.
either of those claims would be completely false.

why would he be "glossed" ?? or gossed over a little ?
he wasn't a rebel, he wasn't an American and he didn't fight for American independence, so why would i consider him such a grand influence ?

Irish & Scottish sure, but, no British as there was no Great Britain back then.
to me, they were all 'rebels', regardless their origin.

Jefferson was born in America (Virginia), on American soil ... Locke ? hardly.

perhaps i'm not following your train of thought but if you're invoking ghosts as influence, why not invoke that of Vlad the Impaler ??
at least that would more closely represent the actions of our current administration and at least Obama is a blood relation.

Yes there was. The Kingdom of Great Britain was formed in 1707. The United Kingdom didn't come until later though.

Yup John Locke is the father of liberalism, I just love bring this point up when Americans start a debate with me about “rights” coupled with some brit-bashing.

I know that classical liberalism of Locke and the liberalism and libertarianism in America are two different things but the American Constitution is considered the first “liberal constitution”. That’s another fun point the rise, the very document that Americans hold so dear as “American” the ideology and way of life that they see as the “American dream” is actually all based on European thinkers.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
Yup John Locke is the father of liberalism, I just love bring this point up when Americans start a debate with me about “rights” coupled with some brit-bashing.

I know that classical liberalism of Locke and the liberalism and libertarianism in America are two different things but the American Constitution is considered the first “liberal constitution”. That’s another fun point the rise, the very document that Americans hold so dear as “American” the ideology and way of life that they see as the “American dream” is actually all based on European thinkers.

Where do you think we Americans come from outer space?
We're the ones that left your broken countries.
Couldn't have done it without you guys.
And now you get to reap the "reward??"

reply to post by Dustytoad


And why is it that American always assume they are better of that us Europeans

I am very happy to live in the UK and I am just as proud of my heritage as you are of yours.

reply to post by Dustytoad


Many people (America, British, etc) miss the fact that the original settlers were happily allowed out of the countries. They were religious nut jobs - fact. They wanted to establish a colony where they were free to persecute others based on religious choice, which they were not allowed to do back in Europe. This is documented from the time and well established, there are all sorts of resources that attest to this.

America - the land of the religious nut job, since day 1.

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

reply to post by Flavian


Totally agree with you, Americans always seem to forget their heritage, particularly white Americans who seem to resist their European roots.

In general however I think that many Americans also forget that they are a young country and their status as “world super-power” is just part of a cycle. Once Brittan was world super power and today it is America, in the next 10 to 20 years it will be China.

reply to post by Flavian

yeah ok, i was wrong ... got my timeline cornfused
however, that doesn't help fortify the OPs claim regarding Locke or his philosophies.