Chemtrails exist time for a new discussion

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posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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Just stumbled across this site explaining geoengineering our climate by authentic sources. The video in the link gave me chills. They are already spraying aerosols in the sky I see it once a month. The website clearly states that aerosols are a cheap defense to be implemented in a state of emergency....is there something we should know?! [link to www.srmgi.org]

from the paper

"Stratospheric aerosols
Large volcanic eruptions release millions of tons of sulphur dioxide into the
Earth’s upper atmosphere (the stratosphere), which react to form tiny particles –
aerosols – in the form of sulphates. These aerosols then circulate the planet on
the stratospheric winds and block out a small amount of inbound sunlight. This
phenomenon temporarily cools the Earth, sometimes detectably for a year or
two depending on the size of the eruption. The artificial injection of aerosols to
mimic this natural phenomenon could also produce a cooling effect. It has been
suggested that releasing a sufficient quantity of aerosols (such as sulphate
particles) could reduce some of the effects of climate change at relatively low
cost. Furthermore, the cooling effects of stratospheric aerosols are expected to
be relatively evenly distributed around the world.
However, this technique also carries the risk of modifying large-scale weather
patterns and precipitation (tropical monsoon systems in particular). The hazy
skies resulting from aerosol introduction could also negatively affect solar
power generation, astronomy, remote sensing, and (depending on the choice of
aerosol) stratospheric ozone levels. In addition, there would also be effects on
plant productivity due to reduced direct sunlight and increased diffuse sunlight,
but it is thought that not all changes would necessarily be adverse.




posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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The point is that we need to move past wether or not chemtrails exist and into a discussion about its ethicacy. Is this our best option, how serious is the situation, it's time for us all to get honost and find solutions that are sustainable and appropriate. So in other words this is not for the poster who wants to yell and scream about the non-existance of chemtrails but for the individual who already is aware of there existance and is wondering where do we go from here.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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The existence of planes that spray chemicals into the air for various reasons is well known .. and cloud seeding is no secret ..

The issue is that those known things and the phenomena that is a conspiracy known as chem trails are not a 1:1 match.. they aren't the same thing.. conspiracies abound about chemicals being sprayed for mind control or to make us sick or to keep us repressed for what ever reason.. THAT is where it becomes nonsense..

The other thing is that people constantly see standard contrails and automatically yell "CHEMTRAIL!" even though it's nothing of the sort.. people who jump on that bandwagon tend to lack a basic fundamental understanding of the science behind contrails... all the variables that define their form, how long they last.. how much they disperse..



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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They also note that they have developed this group in an attempt to bring about guidelines to follow because they don't want governments experimenting...the fact that they are concerned speaks volumes. An operation like this would of course be top secret no one is gonna want to be the ones experimented on but if we are in an emergency the government would and is taking action. This must be a dire situation is my only conclusion.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by BrieBird
Just stumbled across this site explaining geoengineering our climate by authentic sources. The video in the link gave me chills. They are already spraying aerosols in the sky I see it once a month.


No, they are not.

If you actually READ the link it is saying that SRM should NOT be allowed until there are rules governing it.



The website clearly states that aerosols are a cheap defense to be implemented in a state of emergency....is there something we should know?! [link to www.srmgi.org]


no - I think that pretty much sums up how and when aerosols might be used - in a state of emergency. Lots of scientists agree - aerosols have far too many unknowns to be considered as a "day to day" method of global cooling - but if things get REALLY bad we may be forced to resort to them because there is nothing else.

Better not to need them.
edit on 16-12-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by BrieBird
So in other words this is not for the poster who wants to yell and scream about the non-existance of chemtrails but for the individual who already is aware of there existance and is wondering where do we go from here.


right - poison the well - you get to post false information about chemtrails existing, with no justification whatsoever, and no-one is allowed to contradict you?

sorry - it doesn't work like that.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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Your right nothing to talk about here no such thing as chemtrails, they have been around for decades. Brie is pointing to the fact that credible establishments like the EDF and TAWAS are pointing out that we need to make the topic of solar defense center stage particularly because the technology does exist and they believe it to be in our best interest to have clearly defined guidelines. If this is being done in our best interests then so be it but it would be nice to be given the whole story. However what would be the point if it's already to late. I too also think its time to come to terms with the reality of climate geoengineering and now open up the discussion for its pros and cons of long term use.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by Maeven23
 


Where on any of those sites does it say that solar radiation management by spraying of aerosols (which would almost certainly NOT look like contrails!!) is being done?



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Did you watch the video in the link? They don't outright say so and so is spraying you but illuminate the fact that aerosol spraying needs to be regulated.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by BrieBird
 





They are already spraying aerosols in the sky I see it once a month. The website clearly states that aerosols are a cheap defense to be implemented in a state of emergency....is there something we should know?! [link to www.srmgi.org]


Yes, did you read much on that site?

I ask this because there are a few things that you may have overlooked...


■SRM technologies would take effect relatively quickly and their cost could be comparatively low, and they could reduce some of the most significant effects of climate change. However, the technologies are poorly understood, have the potential to be dangerous and there are risks associated not only with deployment but also medium and large-scale research.



■The range of SRM research runs from computer simulations and laboratory studies right up to potentially risky, large-scale experiments in the real world. While most SRMGI participants were comfortable with low risk research, there was much debate over how to govern any research outside the lab.


www.srmgi.org...

And how do you know there are aerosols being sprayed once a month?



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by Maeven23
 


Indeed - it needs to be regulatesd so that no-one can just go out and do it like that chap did dumping 100 tons of iron into the Pacific off Canada recently - without any law governing such activity there is no way to stop that happening.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by Maeven23
 





They don't outright say so and so is spraying you but illuminate the fact that aerosol spraying needs to be regulated.


Why should they say so and so is spraying you when there is no evidence to prove someone is actually spraying ?

And nobody will disagree with that



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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Ok so we disagree on wether chemtrails are real no surprise there so in order to foster a more meaningful discussion. If hypothetically a need for chemtrailing to deflect radiation is necessary how would you feel about that? Best interest, poor choice, no other decision, or absolutely not under any circumstances.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by Maeven23
 


If we can't stop screwing with the environment in some other way then it may turn out to be the best of a bad situation.

And even if yuo don't believe that global warming has any human cause, if the earth keeps warming for ANY REASON to the point where lives aer threatened, countriles submerged and generally life as we know it becomes "the good ol' days" then it may be the only thing we have that might change that process.

Best not to need it tho'.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 





(which would almost certainly NOT look like contrails!!)


Really?

How do you know what it would look like?





Almost all of the depictions I have seen certainly resemble contrails.



Image taken from the video
edit on 16-12-2012 by MagicWand67 because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-12-2012 by MagicWand67 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by MagicWand67


(which would almost certainly NOT look like contrails!!)


Really?

How do you know what it would look like?



Almost all of the depictions I have seen certainly resemble contrails.


Well, one could start by considering what a dump of aluminium oxide powder would look like. Let's start by considering a 767-300F, as it's a reasonably average sized plane, not huge like a A380 and not small like a Q400 (not that Q400s typically fly high enough to form contrails).
www.boeing.com...
So, the maximum capacity for one of those is 52,700kg, and If we're assuming it is making a contrail where they shouldn't usually form, I guess you would be assuming it would make some visible difference. So if we say it releases all of that over the space of 100 km, and the contrail spreads to be 1km in radius, then that would give a volume of 78.5 cubic kilometers, or 7.85x10^10 cubic metres.
that 52,700kg will then be spread over that distance, for a particulate density of 6.7x10^-4 g/m^3, assuming I've got the maths right.

How visible, exactly, would you expect that to be from 11 km, assuming it's directly overhead?



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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I also stumbled, fell into, came on the radar of a vast organization of NWO resistance groups. Apparently I got to close and don't have the "credentials" to be trust worthy. A contact grilled/interrogated me for sometime. I guess I checked out. I'm not a 'double agent' as they claimed.
So from listening and reading for about four months I decided to look for some place to ask people if they have heard about any of the info I came across.
BEES & BIRDS: I'm sure by now everyone here has heard of disappearing bees or bees that refuse to pollinate. This group claims that Genetically modified seeds are the main reason. Agriculture is a science and an art. Timing is everything. When to plant, fertilize, water, harvest etc... According to this group a seed with built in pesticide will kill or damage pollinating BEES. Farmers know to treat the crops after the pollination has occurred I asked them how this would affect fruit trees planted years before and they had no reply so there you go. During planting seasons some migratory birds will go to their traditional resting grounds,why? Because of water and food supplies. Usually near the largest corporate farms. Millions of seed are spilled upon the ground during planting season. The birds eat this poison by the pounds then from Iowa or where ever they fly south get sick and fall out of the sky in Arkansas or Kentucky or where ever. Anyway I'm learn about Tankers on our oceans spray vast areas with nano seeds which bind to the surface water molecules and evaporation does the rest HARRP creates wind patterns and jet stream dips precipitation does the rest...however culling mammals in our oceans eat contaminated plankton, whales.then others eat the smaller culling species like shrimp and so on. There for we have 20 tons of herring beach themselves mass suicide to avoid the pain ..dolphins, turtles, etc...these creatures are poisoned by the NWO's machinations to kill us off. Any comments or knowledge of this would be helpful.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by MagicWand67
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 





(which would almost certainly NOT look like contrails!!)


Really?

How do you know what it would look like?


Because the most common sulphur compound proposed for this is sulphur dioxide - a colourless gasses.


Almost all of the depictions I have seen certainly resemble contrails.


Cartoons made to illustrate the processes are not necessarily what such an activity would look like in reality.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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Then what in your expertise would chemtrails look like? Why does it have to appear any different then a contrail? Why would you believe that the government would tell us that they are spraying the atmosphere? Did they tell the vets about agent orange and it's effects? No..the government is not the most truthful or ethical bunch plus the US is known for its secret experiments. I think you would have to be naive to believe otherwise. The formation and number of the trails in the sky followed a few hours later by whitewashed skies does not sound normal nor healthy. Looking forward to your thoughts.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Maeven23
Then what in your expertise would chemtrails look like?


Ask the people who postulate that his or that or the other material is present in "chemtrails" and get them to explain how that looks.


Why does it have to appear any different then a contrail?


I don't know - why does it have to be?

however since I know nothing about how "chemtrails" are made or look (because there is no actual evidence they exist so there is nothing I can study), if something looks like a contrail, is generated like a contrail, and behaves like a contrail, then I'm going to think it is probably a contrail until someone can give me a good reason to identify it as something else.


Why would you believe that the government would tell us that they are spraying the atmosphere?


why do you think I beleive that??



Did they tell the vets about agent orange and it's effects?


dunno - does UN resolutions from about 1966 condemning the use of herbicides in Vietnam count??

And what relevance has that to the non-existence of ANY EVIDENCE regarding chemtrails??



The formation and number of the trails in the sky followed a few hours later by whitewashed skies does not sound normal nor healthy.


it is perfectly normal when the atmospheric conditions make it so - it is physics in action - you put ice nucleation particles and more water into a super-saturated atmosphere you get contrails.

Healthy? Probably not - I wouldn't want to breath jet exhaust - nor car exhaust either for that matter since it contains pretty much the same pollutants.

the fact that you can see contrails doesn't alter the "healthiness" of the pollution 1 bit - the exhaust is still pollution whether you can see it or not.

As is car and truck exhaust - of which there is considerably more and it is all at ground level where we get to breathe it - rather than at 30,000 feet where we do not!





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