Here we go again - Gun Bans are on the way

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by cripmeister

 

- Label the NRA a domestic terrorist organization.

On what grounds?

Defending the Bill of Rights and the constitution?

Are you going to keep doing drive-by posts or actually defend your silly statements?

The NRA are only concerned with your rights as long as it furthers their main agenda. That agenda is nurturing an unhealthy gun culture on behalf of the gun manufacturers.

reply to post by cripmeister

The NRA are only concerned with your rights as long as it furthers their main agenda. That agenda is nurturing an unhealthy gun culture on behalf of the gun manufacturers.

Please provide examples of the “unhealthy culture” the NRA promotes.

Capitalism and the 2nd amendment? I bet you think THAT is unhealthy!

SHOCKING!!

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Did they come door to door and take your guns? Did they disarm the citizens, as you claim they would? Did they go door to door to collect the assault weapons that were already out there? OR DID THEY BAN PRODUCTION AND SALE OF THEM?

I never said a word about door to door confiscation. Now you’re making assumptions.

It will likely be more subtle….such as making guns illegal and giving people a grace period to turn them in. Anyone caught in possession after a certain date would face felony charges.

So what youa re saying is that they arent going to take our guns. Fair enough.

edit on 16-12-2012 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

Right! Not take our guns - criminalize the possession of guns. There is not enough man power to TAKE guns.

This is another attempt at making guns illegal to own. Today its assault weapons and tomorrow it could be all long rifles or all pistols. Pretty soon everyone in possession of any type of firearm is a criminal.

Same question as before: why didnt they do it with the last gun ban then? Why were long rifles and pistols and shotguns still legal during that ban?

reply to post by captaintyinknots

Same question as before: why didnt they do it with the last gun ban then? Why were long rifles and pistols and shotguns still legal during that ban?

As I’ve already shown you, they restricted variations of ALL OF THOSE from 94’ thru 04’.

It’s an incremental change and always will be…it’s what the dumb public will sign off on at the time. Until 1934 we could all own machine guns and grenades!!! You and I certainly weren’t born before then, so we never experienced the pleasure of owning those or the ANGER of those being taken away.

You’re a willing victim of your own circumstance rather than a student of history. You’ve been conditioned to your line of reasoning - you don’t know FREEDOM.

Who is the "close minded" one....really?

Shouldn't the focus be on laws proscribing security measures for schools?? Why should any school be easier to get in to than an airliner? Or bank vault? Or typical NY office building?

So sick of hearing NRA talking points.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Same question as before: why didnt they do it with the last gun ban then? Why were long rifles and pistols and shotguns still legal during that ban?

As I’ve already shown you, they restricted variations of ALL OF THOSE from 94’ thru 04’.

It’s an incremental change and always will be…it’s what the dumb public will sign off on at the time. Until 1934 we could all own machine guns and grenades!!! You and I certainly weren’t born before then, so we never experienced the pleasure of owning those or the ANGER of those being taken away.

You’re a willing victim of your own circumstance rather than a student of history. You’ve been conditioned to your line of reasoning - you don’t know FREEDOM.

Who is the "close minded" one....really?

edit on 16-12-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)

so in other words, you openly admit that they did not ban all guns last time. Thanks.

It's funny to me that you think you know anything about me and what I know of history and freedom. Silly ad homs. You know nothingabout me, but you are still proving where you fit in all of thia.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

so in other words, you openly admit that they did not ban all guns last time. Thanks.

This is your second attempt at “gotcha” points and its been an epic FAIL both times.

As I said…NO, TPTB aren’t going to do confiscations (it would never work) and NO, TPTB didn’t ban all guns yet (it’s incremental usurpation of power); you must tread lightly with an armed populous.

Use your head and stop playing gotcha because you’re making yourself look silly.

It's funny to me that you think you know anything about me and what I know of history and freedom. Silly ad homs. You know nothingabout me, but you are still proving where you fit in all of thia.

Based on your statements, all of ATS makes a judgment about your knowledge base and grasp of the facts. You have exposed yourself….don’t get mad at me!

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

so in other words, you openly admit that they did not ban all guns last time. Thanks.

This is your second attempt at “gotcha” points and its been an epic FAIL both times.

As I said…NO, TPTB aren’t going to do confiscations (it would never work) and NO, TPTB didn’t ban all guns yet (it’s incremental usurpation of power); you must tread lightly with an armed populous.

Use your head and stop playing gotcha because you’re making yourself look silly.

It's funny to me that you think you know anything about me and what I know of history and freedom. Silly ad homs. You know nothingabout me, but you are still proving where you fit in all of thia.

Based on your statements, all of ATS makes a judgment about your knowledge base and grasp of the facts. You have exposed yourself….don’t get mad at me!

I'm not playing any games. I am attempting to get an answer on a question i have posed to you multiple times that you continue to dodge. If it is such a slippery slope, we shouldnt have any guns at this point, right? We should have never seen the assault weapons ban lifted, right? If their goal was to outlaw all guns, why have we seen it go THE OTHER DIRECTION? And why will you not give a straight answer?

I'm not mad, like i stated, i think its funny. Its almost always funny to me when someone has to jump to ad homs rather than defend their stance. Shows all I need to know.

I also find it funny that you are still trying to label me as a supporter of gun bans. You continue to prove my point, that the conversation cant even be had, thanks to people like you. We cant even talk about it, without billybob screaming that theyre gonna take er guns.

The fact of the matter is, somethng HAS to change. personally, i think it starts with tougher enforcement on who can get guns and who cant. And the first thing added to the "cant" list needs to be anyone on anti-depressents and the such.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Just as I said in another thread:

I am so tired of this. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BAN GUNS.THEY CAN'T.

Whats truly sad, though, is that the fanatics out there arent even willing to have a conversation on the subject. ANY speak of restrictions on guns is looked at as though "they're gonna take all our guns!".

The truth is, I am very pro gun rights. But a conversation needs to be had. We need to take a look at WHAT KIND of guns are out there for the public. We need to take a look at capacity. We need to take a look at more rigorous qualifications for who can purchase guns.

But we wont. Cuz this is 'Merica. We like guns. We have a logical need for high capacity military style weapons

I have yet to hear one single person come up with even a remotely logical reason why they need a high-cap AR-15. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON.

Why does it matter what type of gun is allowed or disallowed? Any gun can kill.

With the recent massacres in the public eye, there was no one to confront the shooter. There was no
concealed carrier at any scene who could have potentially been out-gunned.

At the short range that these killings took place a handgun would have sufficed. The size of the
clip or the capacity of the gun would have mattered very little. These men were unchallenged.
They could simply reload and keep firing....these killings could have been done with a .22cal pistol,
though the effective kill rate would have been lower.

Taking away assault rifles and large capacity clips would not have prevented any of these killings.
It would work to prevent a citizens militia (deprived of these weapons) from defending the
security of their free State however.

Originally posted by rival

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Just as I said in another thread:

I am so tired of this. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BAN GUNS.THEY CAN'T.

Whats truly sad, though, is that the fanatics out there arent even willing to have a conversation on the subject. ANY speak of restrictions on guns is looked at as though "they're gonna take all our guns!".

The truth is, I am very pro gun rights. But a conversation needs to be had. We need to take a look at WHAT KIND of guns are out there for the public. We need to take a look at capacity. We need to take a look at more rigorous qualifications for who can purchase guns.

But we wont. Cuz this is 'Merica. We like guns. We have a logical need for high capacity military style weapons

I have yet to hear one single person come up with even a remotely logical reason why they need a high-cap AR-15. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON.

Why does it matter what type of gun is allowed or disallowed? Any gun can kill.

With the recent massacres in the public eye, there was no one to confront the shooter. There was no
concealed carrier at any scene who could have potentially been out-gunned.

At the short range that these killings took place a handgun would have sufficed. The size of the
clip or the capacity of the gun would have mattered very little. These men were unchallenged.
They could simply reload and keep firing....these killings could have been done with a .22cal pistol,
though the effective kill rate would have been lower.

Taking away assault rifles and large capacity clips would not have prevented any of these killings.
It would work to prevent a citizens militia (deprived of these weapons) from defending the
security of their free State however.

then why not bazookas? Tanks? The type of the gun DOES matter. There is a reason that the military carries what they do-it is the most effective for killing.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

I'm not playing any games. I am attempting to get an answer on a question i have posed to you multiple times that you continue to dodge. If it is such a slippery slope, we shouldnt have any guns at this point, right?

We went from grenades and machine guns in 34’ to no semi-auto external magazine rifle or pistol grip shotguns in 04’.

We should have never seen the assault weapons ban lifted, right? If their goal was to outlaw all guns, why have we seen it go THE OTHER DIRECTION? And why will you not give a straight answer?

People woke the HELL UP!! We had a change in power! Guess what??? The power has reverted back to 04’ and beyond!! Obama has made it clear! Did you hear his speech tonight?? Pay attention to min 2:00 and beyond, He’s gonna “do as much as he can” and take “meaningful action” to make sure this doesn’t happen.

I'm not mad, like i stated, i think its funny. Its almost always funny to me when someone has to jump to ad homs rather than defend their stance. Shows all I need to know

There is nothing funny about Americans losing rights. Keep on laughing if you must!! Phony patriot?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Has anyone considered the fact that maybe this whole "we have to do something about the guns situation" might be a reverse-psychology ploy? If the government knew something bad was about to happen (natural disaster, war, asteroid, etc...)....the best way to get the nation to arm itself to the teeth without undue panic is to threaten to take away the right to bear arms. Historically there has always been a surge in gun sales following a mass shooting. It also makes for a really good diversion from whatever else might be going on....not nearly as many "end of times" posts or newscasts this week. People on this site are always complaining that the government treats us like sheeple or like children....reverse-psycholgy works great on kids.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I'm not playing any games. I am attempting to get an answer on a question i have posed to you multiple times that you continue to dodge. If it is such a slippery slope, we shouldnt have any guns at this point, right?

We went from grenades and machine guns in 34’ to no semi-auto external magazine rifle or pistol grip shotguns in 04’.

We should have never seen the assault weapons ban lifted, right? If their goal was to outlaw all guns, why have we seen it go THE OTHER DIRECTION? And why will you not give a straight answer?

People woke the HELL UP!! We had a change in power! Guess what??? The power has reverted back to 04’ and beyond!! Obama has made it clear! Did you hear his speech tonight?? Pay attention to min 2:00 and beyond, He’s gonna “do as much as he can” and take “meaningful action” to make sure this doesn’t happen.

I'm not mad, like i stated, i think its funny. Its almost always funny to me when someone has to jump to ad homs rather than defend their stance. Shows all I need to know

There is nothing funny about Americans losing rights. Keep on laughing if you must!! Phony patriot?

So, again, let me get this straight. We have seen gun rights LOOSENED over the last ten years, and youre still arguing that they want to take all of our guns. How does that fit? Because we had a change in leadership? Guess what, there will be many more changes in leadership in this country. Its how it is designed. Why, then, do you think any guns bans wouldnt be lifted again?

Laughing at you does not make me a phony patriot. It makes me someone who thinks that those who have to jump to ad homs and blind accusations are silly.

Then again, I have never labelled myself a patriot. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"-Samuel Johnson.

I can't think of a more ignorant, illogical and totally irrational group of people than the ANTI-Gun nuts.

Nothing you guys say ever makes any sense. Ever. The pro gun guys have laid out, in a million different ways in terms a kindergartener could understand, allllll of the reasons why banning guns would be pretty much pointless and accomplish nothing. The anti-gun nuts lay out the same recycled (and again, illogical) talking points that MAKE NO SENSE. They sound good up until the point common sense and critical thinking takes hold.

One of my favorite arguments came from this very thread, the "you guys are just SCARED" argument Seriously? A bunch of people who are AFRAID of guns and that's your argument?
Oh and theres the whole thing about how SICK of these damned NRA bible belt RED NECKS going out and blowing people away. Yes...hmm lets take a look...













Yup...I bet that Asian guy has a confederate flag flying on his truck and everything. My bad, That last one was a red head not a redneck. Oh well close enough right! Bunch of trailer trash whities if I ever seen em...

I await your rebuttal to my sarcasm lib-tards! Jesus it's almost comical how utterly ridiculous you people are. Unfortunately your small minded ignorance is beginning to have an effect on my life and it's starting to piss me off.

You fools out there saying the Constitution is outdated go look up the history of your country you live in for god's sake, unless your a Brit I guess. In that case, why are you in this thread? For the rest of you though, well you should be ashamed of your historical ignorance. Our Constitution is there for a reason. It was made for a reason. It made us the greatest country on Earth an helped give you what you have today. Unfortunately I realize most of you anti-gun nuts won't understand how you could possibly owe anything to our constitution because that would require some cognitive thought on your parts, something which the loudest majority of you have already demonstrated you completely lack.

You guys want a law banning guns? Why don't we compromise? You get your gun ban, we get our STUPID-ban. An anti-stupid law! No guns, no stupid...solved. Your welcome world

reply to post by captaintyinknots

So, again, let me get this straight. We have seen gun rights LOOSENED over the last ten years, and youre still arguing that they want to take all of our guns. How does that fit?

Re-read the OP, chief. You have selective memory!

Laughing at you does not make me a phony patriot. It makes me someone who thinks that those who have to jump to ad homs and blind accusations are silly.

It’s not ad hominem when I attack your argument.

Stop playing games…

Then again, I have never labelled myself a patriot. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"-Samuel Johnson.

Patriotism is not what Sam Johnson described….at least not my definition of patriotism. I love this country for the people who inhabit it, the principles under which we have consented to be governed, and the ideals of liberty, which have given rise to this nation’s prosperity and the freedom we currently enjoy (although its quickly being stripped).

If you choose to roll with the latest lingo (kind of like you roll with the latest trends in gun ownership acceptability) then that’s your BAD.

I’m a proud Patriot!

Semper FI

reply to post by captaintyinknots

then why not bazookas? Tanks? The type of the gun DOES matter.

YES!! WHY NOT BAZOOKAS???

There is a reason that the military carries what they do-it is the most effective for killing.

Why can’t American ‘civilians’ carry the same weapons?? American Military carry them….they are Americans, too.

Who died and bestowed the Royal Crown of US to the FED???

Guns Don't Kill People, PEOPLE With Guns Kill People... Very Simple

reply to post by seabag


The problem is NOT guns, let me explain why. Guns, like baseball bats, golf clubs, fireplace pokers, samurai swords, bowling balls, potato launchers, cars - trucks - boats - RV's - airplanes, bows and arrows, kitchen knives and so on and so forth, are just tools that are used to do particular things. When these tools are used improperly, people get hurt. Now, its not the tools that are to blame. Its the IDIOTS operating the tools. So, please understand, it is NOT GUNS that are dangerous, they are only tools, it is the IDIOTS MISUSING them. For every group of statistics that you can quote that prove your position, I can give you 10x more that prove mine. So where does that leave us? At a stalemate of sorts. Who is right and Who is wrong?

Confiscation of Guns would make the founding fathers roll over in their graves. They gave us the 2nd Amendment so that :

0. We could hunt for food
1. We could defend ourselves
2. We could defend our families
3. We could defend our country
4. We could defend our property
5. We could take down TYRANTS and TYRANNY.

You fail to understand that when our families came here from Great Britian, King George did not allow them
to own weapons because if he did, they would have executed him for the rotten crap that he pulled on them in an abuse of power.
So, they wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights to guarantee that we would indeed never have to suffer the pain of TYRANNY again.

If every person age 18 or older were required to buy, register and carry a concealed weapon, we would have a lot less crime than we do today. Think of this, that 20 yr old is seen walking up to the school armed to the teeth. Teacher alerts other teachers and before he has a chance to enter the school, they've drawn their weapons on him and possibly disabled him or killed him saving 26 lives in the process. A guy walks into a bar or stop n go store and pulls a gun. 3 people inside are also armed. He backs down immediately or dies.

These are the things that we are faced with every single day. However, in states where guns are very prevalent, there is very little crime. Statistics on Australia after their forced gun grab indicate crime has risen tremendously since it took place. Before that, there was very little crime at all.

So you see, statistics are numbers meant to support which ever side they are made for.

The bottom line, if you give up your right to bear arms, you walk right into the hands of TYRANNY without a way to end it.

Seems the president is too emotionally attached to the issue to make any rationale decisions right now. Him saying that he will use whatever power he has in this matter is a bit over the top.

NEWTOWN, Conn. (AP) — He spoke for a nation in sorrow, but the slaughter of all those little boys and girls turned the commander in chief into another parent in grief, searching for answers. Alone on a spare stage after the worst day of his tenure, President Barack Obama declared Sunday he will use ‘‘whatever power’’ he has to prevent shootings like the Connecticut school massacre.

Source

Maybe its better that we all wait until emotions are not heightened, you know, where people in mass are not susceptible to acting on knee jerk reactions. Let me just add. The evil here, in this matter, was with those who committed the acts. Not the whole country folks. K? We are not all psychos looking to shoot at everything that moves for no reason at all. Everyone in this country, and across the planet wants to protect what they love and hold dearest, their children. Everyone who has a child can identify with that. Hell anyone who has ever held a baby in their arms can understand it.

So all I would ask, is that time be given for everyone to calm down a little where anger, fear and all the hurt from this can be less of an impact on decisions made. We all decide better with level heads. Let people grieve. Give people time. Then we can all talk about it.