reply to post by NorEaster
Seriously, though, you each are referring to experiences that you've had, or continue to have, and while these experiences may be very real to you,
the truth is that experience is not an accurate measure of what is real.
Why is not accurate measur of what is real? Our whole world is built on knowledge, philosophies, ideas, and theories obtained through direct
experience. Whether it's in the lab, theoretical, an idea, a concept, all in the realm of subjective consciousness.
As far as defining reality based on individual, or group, experience, how many cult members tragedies, delusion-driven murders, religious crimes
against humanity and fraudulent end-of-the-world announcements does it take to make the case that experiences are not reliable evidence of that which
does in fact exist beyond the mind of the experiencer?
Like the same number of tragedies, delusion-driven murders, crimes against humanity, and various other atrocious acts done in the name of ________
(fill in the blank) ...an endless list. I'll start it of though. Greed, corruption, power, the almighty bottom dollar(profit), hatred, jealousy,
separatist thinking, race, gender, lust (this ones big!!!), ignorance, big ego, etc etc....
It's human nature at fault, not what's done in the name of ________ (fill in the blank).
But, what do you honestly believe about that person's own experience of the revelation of God's righteous will? Is it as accurate as your own
experience of what is true and possibly divine in nature? And if not, then what is the dependable and universal determinant that you've relied upon to
ensure that your experience is more authentic than the experience that the suicide bomber (who definitely put his money where his mouth was) had?
Very well. Let's do some online research on the number of suicide bombers who have experienced transcendent love, third eye open, merge into a sea of
Universal consciousness, and a few more items I've mentioned. By the way, good luck with that because I haven't found any yet. But please do post here
if you do find something similar.
Now I don't doubt that there are those who have had a few experiences such as opening the third eye, and a few others, which have caused delusions of
egotism and terrible acts afterwards, but that's due to incomplete understanding. However, in most paths, everything is tempered with Love,
compassion, and selflessness, universally across the board.
You can hate the fact that someone like me challenges you, and that's fair. But it might be helpful to realize that such a challenge is not based on
ego or hatred of whatever it is that you feel these experiences have given to you and the life you've worked hard to develop.
I welcome your challenge and have rebuttals for all the points. That's what I'm here for, because I was stood in your shoes challenging those who made
claims as I do now. Only then I thought them to be delusions of grandeur, until I experienced them for myself and realized eventually that my old mode
of existence was exactly like Plato's allegory of the Cave.
It might be a lot more accurate that this sort of challenge is based on concern for what has become a very well established trend of negative results
emerging from deeply rooted faith in that which is solely based on a person's experience.
There is no faith in my reality. There is only experiencing or knowing these experiences. In many ways, I have no choice in things anymore as I wake
up and live daily in an expanded consciousness that is no longer bound by a physical body at certain times, amongst a vast array of other added
It's the mechanics of experience-as-reality itself that is being challenged here. Not any one person's interpretation of experience.
This is exactly one of the ways how I got to where I am now. Questioning experience, subjectivity, the status quo. All of Buddhist and nondual
philosophies revolves around just this. However they don;t stop there. For example, Buddha reached his enlightenment after 7 months straight of just
being aware of his breath. Jesus spent 40 days in the desert
How many repeat these things in the West? Very little. The inner state is the laboratory where the exact same things that they reached, happen to you
if you spend crucial time penetrating depths.
The human experience is not just left brained logic. There is the right brain, the heart, the gut, intuition, etc. All of these aspects can be
penetrated in various depths and lead to realizations that are universally discussed across cultures and antiquity.
Philosophy is not science, just as experience is not determination. One can pull the other forward and often does, but each are very different stages
of conceptual development. That's just how reality is.
Your defining a reality, I've experienced as undefinable. Who's right?
edit on 20-12-2012 by dominicus because: (no reason given)