So let me get this right. You want a government who are killing thousands of kids a day to take your

reply to post by TheMindWar
I nearly agree with you on this...except "War crimes worse than Germany?" I think not. America did not inter and slaughter and experiment on 13 million people. We have done our crimes, and they WILL catch up to us. Well, not to regular folks who would never allow such vile things to happen, but to these fat and retarded villains sitting in power, their day will come. And they know it. It was ever thus. We take just so much idiocy and manipulation from the fat cats before they end up French Revolution style. It is what THEY are afraid of. There is no way to herd all people into their mind-control traps. And revolution will come. And it won't be televised.

Originally posted by SilentE
It's about time the US citizens march on their government with their guns...
but I guess we'll just see more anti/pro gun threads than a single thread about actually using the guns to stop all this madness.

Well, you won't see a lot of threads inciting violent revolution because, while people do have the right to bear arms, actually using them against the sitting government is a declaration of war. In other words, you're allowed to own them, but to USE them for such purpose...you only get away with it if you ultimately WIN.

So do people wish to declare themselves enemy combatants and get thrown in jail with no chance of release or trial ever? Probably not worth posting a thread over.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


We can't just get up gun up and bum rush Washington.We aren't animals. If we shoot first the opposition, whom ever they should be, would destroy the effort and paint all of the participants as terrorists attempting a coup.We wait for them to make their OVERT move and then respond then and there.

Originally posted by angryhulk

Citizens are a crop to be harvested and used, nothing more.

Wow.

Well enjoying living out the rest of your life with that belief, I'm sure you will be very happy.

Oh, and sorry for having an opinion. Apparently that isn't aloud in this thread.

He's very right. You think they honestly care about you personally? About society as a whole? Your neighbors? Children? No. They care about power, wealth, and dominance. Complete control. We are just a mass crop for them to play with. Feed us what they want, medicate us with what they want, teach us what they want. We're already there. But people like you are the reason we're being kept this way. I know it's cliche, but "wake up" .

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
We can't just get up gun up and bum rush Washington.We aren't animals. If we shoot first the opposition, whom ever they should be, would destroy the effort and paint all of the participants as terrorists attempting a coup.We wait for them to make their OVERT move and then respond then and there.

Absolutely, 100% true. Great post.

Originally posted by SilentE
It's about time the US citizens march on their government with their guns...
but I guess we'll just see more anti/pro gun threads than a single thread about actually using the guns to stop all this madness.

If you are a "citizen", you have already lost.

The Hierarchy:

1.) The Great Spirit
2.) Humans
3.) Governments
4.) Corporations
5.) Citizens

Be a human, not a citizen. This is not just semantics, but lawfully and legally defined real and true hierarchy. If you are a 'person' (which is really just legal fiction, a dead entity, if you will), you have already lost. You don't have authority, if you are at the bottom of the hierarchy.

But humans created governments - they are OUR children! We can't let them rule us. What kind of parents would we be?

Governments exist UNDER us, they exist to help and SERVE us to make things flow smoothly - they do not have any authority over us, any more than any children have over their parents. Unless we GIVE it to them by CONSENTing to being GOVERNed by them!

How ludicrous are you, who have given this consent - even without knowing about it? It's debatable consent too, because you didn't have full disclosure at the moment of giving that consent. So any "power" that a government has, stands on a very fragile ground.

But don't be a CITIZEN - a citizen can only have "privileges", that can be given or taken away. Human beings have RIGHTS, that exist by birth, and those can not be given or taken away (but their usage can be stopped if you consent to not using them, which is what citizens have done!)

That's why "civil rights" is an oxymoron, and a ridiculous concept. It's like dry-land fishing! If they are 'civil', they are not rights, but privileges.

The same goes with 'legal system' vs 'the law', which are completely diffe4rent concepts. Legal system is meant for corporations and corporate employees, the law is meant for everyone. We all have to obey LAW, but not everyone has to obey the acts and statutes of the 'legal system', which only have the POWER of law (without actually being law) over those who specifically consent to being governed by them! Don't consent, and you don't have to obey ANY act or statute! But you still have to obey the LAW.

Legal System consists of zillions of acts and statutes, one more ludicrous than the next. It's complex, filled with hard-to-understand legalese (differs from english in many ways, and it's very serious - english-looking words have been redefined!) It's designed to enslave and control people and protect corporations from humans.

The Law consists of only a few parts, is very simple to understand, and it is designed to protect the human rights, and uphold common sense in human behaviour. That's why it's easy to figure out with just using common sense, and is sometimes called 'common law' or 'common sense law'. Basically it says:

- Don't kill, murder or cause any harm
- Don't steal, take or use other's possessions without permission
- Don't do fraud

Remember, law requires a human victim. Legal system does not. You do not belong to legal system as a human being - only the 'person' has to obey it. Only a 'person' can really be a 'citizen'. A 'citizen' is a human being who has performed joinder with a 'person', thus consenting to being governed by not only the acts and statutes of the legal system, but also the city code etc. and the specific legalese rules of a given country.

If you want to know more of this very BASIC knowledge (shame on you, if you didn't know any of this before - everyone should know it, the information is out there!), you can go to:

yourstrawman.com...

And/or you can also go to youtube and find the 5-minute, humorous, grayscale video clip "Meet Your Strawman" that explains the very basics in a simple and somewhat funny way.

You can also research Rob Menard, Michael Badnarik, Johnny Liberty, and some others. They have all lots of good information about these things, but they are also a bit suspicious characters, so don't let your possible prejudices stop you from learning. One is a pothead, another is a new age-spiritualist (a kind of wacko-ish type), and one is perfectly willing to murder people (and thus break the law) to protect his rights.

I don't know how people will take all this, but just remember one thing: DO NOT BE A CITIZEN! BE A LIVING, HUMAN BEING WITH ALL HUMAN RIGHTS INTACT!

p.s. Did you know that America is at war, and has been for a very long time? The civil war never ended (well, 'briefly', I suppose). The "Old Glory", the U.S. flag is a WAR flag. This is very important, because it is not only some ancient semantics, but actually defines what 'rule' people are under. Especially beware flags with YELLOW/GOLD FRINGE around them!

U.S.A. also has a PEACE FLAG, but that has almost never been used (because the country is at war).

This is what the peace flag looks like: www.barefootsworld.net...

Here is something a picture of the dangerous yellow fringe flag:

i8.aijaa.com...

I could explain a lot about flags and about their meanings, and especially the yellow fringe, that changes it to military rule, but it would easily fill up pages, and I think this post is difficult to believe enough for now, and it's out of the scope of this post (though everything is part of everything else in a large enough scale).

But here is a good link with more information about things that interlap both the flag thing and the whole citizen-thing, adding a lot of more information that's not covered much elsewhere (that I know of).

www.barefootsworld.net...

single thread about actually using the guns to stop all this madness.

Using guns IS madness! You don't stop madness with starting another madness. Guns are designed for one purpose only: MURDER.

Murder is against the law. Guns are only useful for breaking the law.

Sure, it might not be against the law to murder animals, but I am not so sure about that, and in any case, it's not less mad to shoot an animal with a gun than to shoot a human being with a gun. Murder is murder, and it's sick madness, always.

Guns should never have been invented - there is no reason for them to exist in a CIVILIZATION. (and I don't mean the legal definition of 'civil' here). As long as they exist, this world is nothing but a BARBARIZATION at best.

Guns are a dangerous symptom of madness, and you want to use them to stop madness? The only way to "use guns to stop madness" would be to use guns to destroy all guns in the world. But that'd be quite a mad task in itself..

Guns represent madness, not sanity. Peace represents sanity.

reply to post by Shoujikina


Fight fire with fire

i agree that the world would be better off without any type of weapon that kills
but its here and not going away anytime soon.
and honestly its human nature to fight kill and what not
its sad but true
and its true our government couldn't care less about us or our children
and even veterans that have come back from Iraq have been affected by depleted uranium
i don't know what to expect from our government anymore but everyday it seems to get worse
don't give up your guns EVER its our last line of defense from a government on the verge of tyranny
hope it does not come to that but that is exactly what you can expect if the gov ever tries to take all our guns

When exactly did the 'us government' "poison Iraq for 4.5 billion years"? How did this "poison of Iraq for 4.5 billion years" happen?

Originally posted by doobydoll
The only interest your government has in your children is to sacrifice them to hasten it's objective - which is to disarm the citizenry. My question is why, after all these years, is the US gov so desperate to take your guns away? Why now? It doesn't make sense.

I truly believe your government is behind all these massacres, and employing such underhanded, heinous tactics as these to get it's way, makes me fear what could be in store for you all after you're forced to hand your weapons over.

In an armed population, a government which thinks nothing of, and perpetrates the slaughtering of your kids in cold blood, tells me it already doesn't fear it's people, I daren't imagine what it will do when you're all forced to disarm.

Don't trust your corrupt, lying, criminal government, don't give up your guns.

edit on 16-12-2012 by doobydoll because: (no reason given)

The reason Why now is most likely IMHO becuase of the fiscal cliff and the repercussions of imposing austerity that will follow and whatever other unjust plans the federal government has for us all! If they have an armed public the civil war, revolution, coup d etat or whatever you want to call it will be too bloody for the majority to accept! They will hence lose control over public opinion and then control over the armed forces! What will happen then will more then likely be an all out attack on the population through chemical, biological or nuclear weapons to cull large portions of us to make us more easily controlled! Though I don't have any weapons, I don't want to see others lose their right to have them nor do I want to see our government lose any fear in taking any more liberties then they already do with us! It amazes me how so few of us realize the extent of the deception and treachery inherent in the political hierarchy! I like to ask my friends and family members occasionally if they fear the federal government! When they say no I then ask if they trust them?Though they may be lying not one has said they felt they had anything to fear and no reason not to trust them! The truth is, I myself am just a bit more apprehensive but I don't trust them in the least and believe they are capable of anything!
Though I don't believe in 2012 as being the end times, I however do think it's the beginning of the survival of only the smartest, strongest and the most desperate! I believe we are entering into some very dark days where kindness will be something of a distant memory! I intend to hold on to my humanity no matter the costs! Good luck ATSers and God bless.

Originally posted by Shoujikina

single thread about actually using the guns to stop all this madness.

Using guns IS madness! You don't stop madness with starting another madness. Guns are designed for one purpose only: MURDER.

Murder is against the law. Guns are only useful for breaking the law.

Sure, it might not be against the law to murder animals, but I am not so sure about that, and in any case, it's not less mad to shoot an animal with a gun than to shoot a human being with a gun. Murder is murder, and it's sick madness, always.

Guns should never have been invented - there is no reason for them to exist in a CIVILIZATION. (and I don't mean the legal definition of 'civil' here). As long as they exist, this world is nothing but a BARBARIZATION at best.

Guns are a dangerous symptom of madness, and you want to use them to stop madness? The only way to "use guns to stop madness" would be to use guns to destroy all guns in the world. But that'd be quite a mad task in itself..

Guns represent madness, not sanity. Peace represents sanity.

edit on 17-12-2012 by Shoujikina because: (no reason given)

You are right but there are criminals in power in the Hierarchy of government who murder using a pen but noone is banning pens! I'm not talking about foreign governments either! Madness is the world we live in and though I choose to not use violence of any kind! I don't impose my will on anyone else! I am fine with responsable citizens
having protection from whatever they fear! I find it odd how the Feds want to strip away guns instead of creating legislation for more responsable owners of these weapons! The truth is even if we were to ban weapons the only people who would give them up would be the responsable law biding citizens! Another truth is, after this shooting I was starting to feel as you do but after looking at statistics for all the crimes that guns have stopped, all the people who have been saved by those people carrying I was no longer sure about who was right! This is when i decided that the legislation should make it tougher to gain these weapons, easier to carry them, ban all assult weapons, make all those that own weapons go for safety coarses, have lock boxes and trigger locks! To also
list the members of their households and make it illegal for anyone to store a weapon where there are those with emotional problems! Though this would not totally stop any family members from getting their hands on these weapons it would surely minimize it!! We need to treat the problem at hand and not the symptom cause until we live in a world where people have less tendancy to harm each other we need to realize that when there are those wanting to harm others they will find a way and if we ban guns next we would ban books becuase they might get a chemistry book and make a bomb or a biology book and weaponize a virus! Wake up and face reality, the problem is us, society is a social failure!

Here's a couple of more links that elaborate on the topics of law, crown, flag and what has been going on for a long time amidst that stuff for those who are interested:

www.detaxcanada.org...
www.detaxcanada.org...

(I would include them in the original post, but I forgot again that you can't edit your posts infinitely - that would come in handy sometimes, especially when you realize you left typos or grammatical mistakes in your post and want to correct it afterwards)

This is mostly only about the flags and how and why the America got to the situation it's in (flagwise and thus military rule-wise, that is):

The Civil Flag Story

This uses the wayback archives - and you can also find this link from the main page of the second link above (By clicking "The Answer"). I just included this here for those who want to go directly to the flag issue.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by SilentE
It's about time the US citizens march on their government with their guns...
but I guess we'll just see more anti/pro gun threads than a single thread about actually using the guns to stop all this madness.

I've made that point many times on here over the years, including yesterday. Apparently, the guns are needed to stop a tyrannical government. According to 75% of the threads on here, America has got one now.

Everyone's angry about the alphabet agencies controlling drugs, the internet, abducting American civilians; the loss of rights and freedoms; the banking system; the taxes that are crippling the middle-classes; how Big Business runs government; how Big Business takes jobs abroad and kills off the little guy; how elections are rigged; how whole cities are becoming bankrupt 'ghost towns'; how people can't smoke or eat what they want any more; contrails poisoning the sky; Monsanto and fast food giants poisoning the food; how technology that will help Americans is suppressed; how schools are 'communist factories'; how a Muslim communist is sitting in the Whitehouse; how the Police are free to shoot, taser and beat innocent citizens; how the constitution is either being ignored or altered too much; how aid is sent to foreign countries whilst Americans go without on a daily basis; how a race war is quietly simmering in the background; how Mexicans are taking over the areas that blacks haven't take over; how America's borders aren't being protected; how the moral compass of America is being rotted away with too much pornography and not enough Jesus...

All this and more on any given day on ATS. And yet, nothing. All those guns and nothing.

Wow! Everyone ponder on what this person has said. Al these guns and yet, NOTHING!
It comforts me to know where I stand in this battle between good and evil. All these guns and nothing. Nuts galore but they always take out innocents while the greedy fat cats sit in their ivory towers, drink champagne and sodomize little children for sport, then plan their next atrocity so they can demonize all that is good.
I don't know how many of you believe in God but there are several accounts in the bible about civilizations that have come to this.
The state of affairs here should give the nonbelievers more reason than ever to consider their position.
The reason that these scum bags aren't hunted on a daily basis is because Christian America doesn't believe in doing to them what needs to be done. Good people don't go around plotting and killing; even scum bags of which I refer. Most people who own firearms in this country would never kill anyone in an offensive mode. So we just take it and take it and take and take it. Sounds pretty sad don't it. Not really. We know that there is a God who is looking down on all this. And we know that there will come a time when the budget is balanced.
So if there is any NWO thug reading this right now know that your days are numbered. and we're all counting.
There is a better day coming for the world. I know this.