The titles of Jesus in Islam.

page: 1
5
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 04:18 AM
link   
Came across this today. And I thought I'd share on ATS.

al-Masih - "The Messiah"
Kalimatullaah - "God's Word"
Qawl al-haqq - "sure word"
Ruhun minhu - "a Spirit from Him"
Nabi - "prophet" mentioned in
Rasul - meaning "messenger"
Isa ibn Maryam - "Jesus son of Mary" mentioned thirty three times.
Abd Allah - meaning "Servant of God"
Min al-muqareeabin - "among those who are close to God"
Wadjih - "worthy of esteem in this world and the next"
Mubarak - "blessed" as "a source of benefit for others




posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 04:23 AM
link   
They show more respect for Jesus than most Christians do.



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 09:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by SilentKoala
They show more respect for Jesus than most Christians do.


They don't teach his message of love. Your statement is incorrect. Islam makes hate legitimate in the minds of the very people that call Jesus their messenger. Do Christians take the name of Christ in vain? Of course there are some that do. Does the Church teach them to do this? Not at all. Do the Catholic church fathers and priests take the name in vain? Yes. Does this reflect within the Catholic faithful body? No. Most are faithful to the true message. Christ has a Gospel and Islam says that Gospel has been distorted.. Really? They are saying that his message was NOT loving your enemy. Which is it?

Your statement is full of bias against faithful Christians who follow Christ's message of faith, hope and LOVE. You are generalizing all Christians who take the name of Christ and comparing this to an overall ideology that takes the name in vain and is proud of it. Taking the name apart from the character is taking the name in vain. All of us are guilty under the law of sin and death. Only the message of Christ to love enemies will save humanity. Who embraces Christ's message?

Please explain yourself as I have done.



edit on 16-12-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 11:44 AM
link   
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 



Christ has a Gospel and Islam says that Gospel has been distorted.. Really? They are saying that his message was NOT loving your enemy. Which is it?


I believe the "gospel" contained the words that Jesus spoke.
For example, his sermon on the mount.

The accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are NOT the gospel.





edit on 16-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 01:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 



Christ has a Gospel and Islam says that Gospel has been distorted.. Really? They are saying that his message was NOT loving your enemy. Which is it?


I believe the "gospel" contained the words that Jesus spoke.
For example, his sermon on the mount.

The accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are NOT the gospel.


edit on 16-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


And this is the same reasoning that allows Islam to think they can dispel hate with hate. Only love dispels hatred.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 01:11 AM
link   
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 



And this is the same reasoning that allows Islam to think they can dispel hate with hate. Only love dispels hatred.


It has nothing to do with hate.
The "gospel according to" somebody is not the perfect Gospel of Jesus. It would have truth mixed with falsehoods.

Also why no word from Christians about Jesus' titles in Islam? Why do Christians teach the lie that Jesus is a "mere" prophet in Islam?



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 03:00 AM
link   
Hello, Scorpie

Of course Christians agree with al-Masih, since that's what the Christ means. For Nicene Christians (the kind that of whom there are more than a billion), the other titles are not offensive, but they are incomplete. That is, for them, Jesus is both man and God.

This may account for the lack of provocation in your post. Of course Jesus is rasul - but he is a principal, not a representative. In English, that's where merely comes in: Jesus is not "merely a prophet," in the view of Nicene Christians.

That's the tip of the iceberg that is the hard principled and conceptual disagreement between Islam and Christianity. The alleged principles are that God cannot be a man, and the gap between God and any man cannot be bridged. In some ways, then, Jesus is just another worked counterexample to speculations about the possibility of Abrahamic unity.

For a man to be God is an exceptional thing, and Nicenes believe Jesus is the one and only example. However, the majority of Christians teach that the ultimate fate of (potentially) all humans is eternal theosis or the beatific vision. This is not absorption into the Godhead, since the human personality and body are maintained, but is a kind of union beyond intimacy nevertheless.

While creator and created are conceptually distinct categories for all who believe in a creator, the Christian side does not see transcending this categorical distinction as a limit on God's omnipotence. For example, God cannot make a four-sided triangle, because there is no such thing. Abrahamics divide on whether "true God and true man" is parallel to the "four sided triangle" or simply a reconciliation of apparent incompatibilities, as a "portable computer" would have seemed to somebody in the 1950's.

The "mechanism" for Jesus' categorical transcendence is that he is uncreated in the Nicene faith, begotten not made. In the Koranic account, Jesus has a beginning in Allah's wish - Isa is made not begotten. Every other human is both made and begotten, as both sides agree.

This conceptual difficulty shows up in absurdities like that thread where you recite "I am human" passages from John as if they were counterexamples to the Christian perspective, when they are essential proof texts for that perspective. However, your bucket of gems from John is like your titles of Isa, incomplete parts of the larger story. In the Christian view, of course.

One other thing about merely. Christians will accept that Mohammed was any kind of prophet at all before they accept that Mohammed was the equal of Jesus. In that sense, the categorical distinction between God and man seems well founded. Mohammed is merely a prophet, and Jesus is not his peer. In the Christian view, of course, if a great deal of elasticity is added.

Perhaps this also explains another phenomenon that came to my attention over the weekend: your dissatisfaction that Christians don't do more than peaceably object when somebody defames Jesus. For example, about a billion people deny his divinity, or thoughtlessly append "pbuh" to his name, as if he were dead, and yet Christians do nothing about it.

My guess is that their calm demeanor occurs for the same reason that biologists don't storm into the streets when somebody says that evolution is a myth. People who are confident about the truth of the matter realize that there is no point in marching in the streets or rioting when somebody shoots their mouth off in error. In the non-rioters' view, of course.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 03:49 AM
link   
Thanks for sharing.
This maybe related:
Jesus Christ



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 04:53 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 




The "gospel according to" somebody is not the perfect Gospel of Jesus. It would have truth mixed with falsehoods.


Interesting and valid point. Above, when you want to know something, you are to go direct to the person requested of it, Father does not deal in second hand information from another, something that has been used greatly down here.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 08:58 AM
link   
reply to post by eight bits
 




Of course Christians agree with al-Masih,


Going by my experience on forums, Christians DENY Islams recognition of Jesus as the messiah. They do so using a number of different tactics....

They say Jesus was "A" messiah in Islam and not "THE" messiah.
Fact : no other character in Islam has the title al-Masih meaning the Messiah.

They say Islam doesn't define "messiah" the way Christianity does.
Fact : The Jews who originally had the concept of "messiah" identified he was going to be a human, which is what Muslims believe.

They say Muslims don't accept Jesus as Messiah because they don't believe he is God
Fact - (refer to previous point)

They say "Isa" of the Koran is not the same as "Jesus" of the english Bible
Fact - Isa in Islam was born of a virgin, is the Messiah and will return to slay the anti-Christ.



or a man to be God is an exceptional thing, and Nicenes believe Jesus is the one and only example.

Then the Nicenes never read Numbers 23:19.


the Christian side does not see transcending this categorical distinction as a limit on God's omnipotence. For example, God cannot make a four-sided triangle,

Sure they don't say God can make a four sided triangle, but they do say God can be both God and the servant of God.


The "mechanism" for Jesus' categorical transcendence is that he is uncreated in the Nicene faith, begotten not made. In the Koranic account, Jesus has a beginning in Allah's wish - Isa is made not begotten.


According the Nicene faith....which is basically Roman in essence.

Adam = created without mother or father = called "son of God" in the Bible
Jesus = created, but with human mother = also called "son of God" in the Bible.


This conceptual difficulty shows up in absurdities like that thread where you recite "I am human" passages from John as if they were counterexamples to the Christian perspective, when they are essential proof texts for that perspective.


Those "I am human" passages that I keep quoting are important because it goes directly against the basic idea that Jesus was God.

The most popular Christian response is that Jesus was both God and man.... or that he was some kind of "man-god". However, you will find that such a concept is NOT biblical. In fact, it resembles Hinduism that teaches God took on different forms and interacted with humans on earth. Many hindus actually believe Jesus was as "incarnation" of God who walked the earth.


One other thing about merely. Christians will accept that Mohammed was any kind of prophet at all before they accept that Mohammed was the equal of Jesus. In that sense, the categorical distinction between God and man seems well founded. Mohammed is merely a prophet, and Jesus is not his peer. In the Christian view, of course, if a great deal of elasticity is added.


Mohammad and Jesus were both merely messengers of the One who sent them.
My focus remains on the One who sent them not on the people He sent.


Perhaps this also explains another phenomenon that came to my attention over the weekend: your dissatisfaction that Christians don't do more than peaceably object when somebody defames Jesus.


Before I answer... I'd like to know what post of mine are you referring to exactly? Can you post a link?
I however recall complaining that Christians are complacent with their secular peers insult and mock Jesus on TV shows, movies, music, stand up comedy etc.

I don't recall expressing dissatisfaction over Christians not doing more than "peaceably object when somebody defames Jesus.".


For example, about a billion people deny his divinity, or thoughtlessly append "pbuh" to his name, as if he were dead, and yet Christians do nothing about it.


Saying "Peace be upon him" is the Muslim way of expressing their respect to Jesus and all the other prophets.
Muslims believe Jesus was NOT killed but was instead "lifted up" (IMO in the way Enoch and Elijah were lifted up. )

Surely you would agree that its more respectful to Jesus when a muslim says "PBUH"....than what some Jews say when Jesus' name is mentioned : "may his name be blotted out"... or "may his bones be ground to dust".


edit on 17-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 09:20 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Let me add to what I said earlier...

Surely you would agree that its more respectful to Jesus when a muslim says "PBUH"....than what Jews say when Jesus' name is mentioned : "may his name be blotted out"... or "may his bones be ground to dust".


The truth is, Christians claim to "love" Jesus.... but in reality they love their doctrines. The same way the self-righteous Pharisees loved their "laws" and interpretations of it.

Which is why you find so many Christians... in their blind hatred of a religion that teaches Jesus is the messiah.... actually support the very people who insult Jesus... and call him a false prophet and a son of a whore.




edit on 17-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 12:20 PM
link   

Going by my experience on forums, Christians DENY Islams recognition of Jesus as the messiah. They do so using a number of different tactics....


Than I have a few words of advice: don't go by your experience.


Which is why you find so many Christians... in their blind hatred of a religion that teaches Jesus is the messiah.... actually support the very people who insult Jesus... and call him a false prophet and a son of a whore.


I don't know any Christians who call Jesus false, and while mariology is a point of contention among Christians, I've never heard any Christian refer to Mary as a whore.

With respect, I think they actually said something else, but you interpreted it this way for them. The fallacy in that is to ignore that they do not share your assumptions about God and man, so your interpretation does not accurately represent their meaning.

Mohammed's intended reference is clearly to the Jesus of the New Testament. The Koran just conveys that the New Testament has the story wrong by telling the story its own way, much as does Philip Pullman's The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ. But there is no doubt what story is being retold, despite the differences. I can't imagine a Christian disputing that.

If I may say, I notice that you sometimes have difficulty understanding your opponents' arguments. For example, you recently mistook a canned, mechanically generated message listing possible faults as a personal accusation of committing all those specific faults. This, even though you could see that some of them had no relationship to anything you had done.

No, I don't have a link for that either.


Then the Nicenes never read Numbers 23:19.


It's a fair bet that many Nicenes have read it. Let's see.

God is not a human being who speaks falsely, nor a mortal, who feels regret. Is God one to speak and not act, to decree and not bring it to pass?

Jesus spoke falsely and felt regret? Perhaps I have missed your point.


Sure they don't say God can make a four sided triangle, but they do say God can be both God and the servant of God.


I would hope so. I can be my own servant, why couldn't God?


Jesus = created, but with human mother


Begotten, not made, says your opponent.

However, Adam was made but not begotten. Ditto The Woman. Thank you for reminding me of the two canonical exceptions to "every other human being" besides Jesus being both begotten and made. I stand corrected.


Those "I am human" passages that I keep quoting are important because it goes directly against the basic idea that Jesus was God.


Or would, except that you rely on the minor premise that God cannot be a man who is God. Your opponent doesn't grant the premise. Also, your opponent reads the rest of the books you cherry pick. Hell, even I read the rest of the book.


However, you will find that such a concept is NOT biblical.


In your view. Your opponent differs, including the half billion or so minority of them who profess sola scriptura today.


In fact, it resembles Hinduism that teaches God took on different forms and interacted with humans on earth.


Actually, that's Judaism.


Many hindus actually believe Jesus was as "incarnation" of God who walked the earth.


The difference, then, would be that Nicenes believe Jesus is the only incarnation of God. I suspect that only is a four-letter word which might make a big difference.


Can you post a link?


No. You know that I can't, and you also know that my information is correct. If you object to my paraphrase of what you wrote, then that's fine. I'll stand by what I wrote, though.


Surely you would agree that its more respectful to Jesus when a muslim says "PBUH"....than what some Jews say when Jesus' name is mentioned : "may his name be blotted out"... or "may his bones be ground to dust".


It is not my place to choose among the variety of religiously inspired defamatory remarks that might be made about Jesus. We seem to be in agreement that Christians will usually not react stupidly to words of people whose views they disagree with anyway. We just differ about whether refraining from pointless contention is a good thing.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 01:58 PM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Islam is very confused,

If Islam is correct, than Judaism and Christianity are both false religions, and Islam is based on the revelations of Judaism and Christianity and relies on them being true,

Islam is a self negating religion,

If Islam's roots are false, then Islam must bear false fruit,

If Islams roots are true, than Islam is incorrect in its doctrines,

So what's going on here?

Have the Muslims been duped?



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 02:11 PM
link   
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Originally posted by EnochWasRight
And this is the same reasoning that allows Islam to think they can dispel hate with hate. Only love dispels hatred.

There is nothing about hate dispelling hate, but you bring up an interesting point I want to address:

Jesus in the New Testament says to turn the other cheek. He says that if someone strikes your one cheek, offer them the other to strike as well.

Something to note: Almost NO Christian I've met was like that. Some say it was metaphorical, some say that it is true, but self-defense is allowed, some make some sort of excuse, some make some other kind of excuse. It is a very very very select few who actually have the capability to turn and offer the other cheek when struck on one.

The Quran says that self-defense is allowed. It says that it is allowed to seek reparations (not revenge, but justice). It says this is allowed. HOWEVER, it states that those who forgive, those who don't demand reparations, those who, in essence, step back, if not offer the other cheek, that is more holy.

Now if the so-called Christians ACTUALLY followed what Christ said (turn the other cheek, give up their money and traditions and and go in the path of God, praying, fasting, healing and generally helping their fellow man with more than just words etc.), the world as we know it now would fall to pieces, and it would be beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful beautiful. Unfortunately, aside from a select few who soldier on, still as the disciples of Christ, that vision of Christianity was stamped out and replaced by a monster pretty early on.

I know skorpion goes on about it sometimes, and others might find it tiring, but it is true, and a serious pity- Modern Christianity effectively removed ALL that from Jesus Christ, and left him as nothing more than a sacrificial lamb to atone for the sins of mankind.

reply to post by godlover25
 


Originally posted by godlover25
If Islam is correct, than Judaism and Christianity are both false religions, and Islam is based on the revelations of Judaism and Christianity and relies on them being true,

Islam is a self negating religion,

Not at all. Islam posits that Judaism and Christianity, as they are in their current form, have been mutated by its higher-ups and their followers lead astray. It certainly does not claim that Judaism (as practised and preached by the OT prophets) or Christianity (as preached by Jesus) is false.
edit on 17-12-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 12:41 AM
link   
reply to post by eight bits
 



Than I have a few words of advice: don't go by your experience.

Christian statements on their forums and websites indicates their approach to Jesus as Islam understands it.



I don't know any Christians who call Jesus false, and while mariology is a point of contention among Christians, I've never heard any Christian refer to Mary as a whore.


You misread what I said.

I said :
...so many Christians... in their blind hatred of a religion that teaches Jesus is the messiah.... actually support the very people who insult Jesus... and call him a false prophet and a son of a whore.

I said many Christians support people who call Jesus a false prophet and call Mary a whore.




If I may say, I notice that you sometimes have difficulty understanding your opponents' arguments. For example, you recently mistook a canned, mechanically generated message listing possible faults as a personal accusation of committing all those specific faults. This, even though you could see that some of them had no relationship to anything you had done. No, I don't have a link for that either.


Check your PM



It's a fair bet that many Nicenes have read it. Let's see.
God is not a human being who speaks falsely, nor a mortal, who feels regret. Is God one to speak and not act, to decree and not bring it to pass?
Jesus spoke falsely and felt regret? Perhaps I have missed your point.


You said : or a man to be God is an exceptional thing, and Nicenes believe Jesus is the one and only example.
I showed you the verse which shows God cannot be a man.

The Nicenes view of Jesus being God, violates the basic Old Testament idea that God is not a man.




that Nicenes believe Jesus is the only incarnation of God. I suspect that only is a four-letter word which might make a big difference.

Again, the Nicene belief that Jesus is God = NOT biblical. Unfortunately Nicene ideas regarding Jesus paved the way for modern Christian doctrines.


It is not my place to choose among the variety of religiously inspired defamatory remarks that might be made about Jesus.


The Jews are the only ones who spew religiously inspired insults towards Jesus.
The Muslims say "Peace be upon him" or "Allahs blessings be upon him" after every mention of Jesus.

There is clearly a difference. One would have to blind or in denial to see that the Jews despise Jesus... and the Muslims adore Jesus.

edit on 18-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 12:45 AM
link   
reply to post by godlover25
 



and Islam is based on the revelations of Judaism and Christianity and relies on them being true,


Islam relies on the revelations that Mohammad received.
While Islam reveres the prophets and Jesus, Islam does not rely on how Jews and Christians interpret their scriptures.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 05:17 AM
link   

Christian statements on their forums and websites indicates their approach to Jesus as Islam understands it.


There are almost two billion Christians, Scorpie. You need some basis to distinguish between fringe Christian views and things that most Chrisitans believe. Otherwise you're not even strawmanning; your just talking to your own fantasies. (Doesn't the thought occur that maybe some of these anonymous, faceless, self-described Christians might be pulling your leg, especially once it becomes clear that you really are clueless about actual Christianity?)

And since it will come up, you also need better sources about actual Judaism, too.


You misread what I said.


Then if that's the case, perhaps you would give an example of "many" Christians "supporting" people who call Mary a whore.

Perhaps I was too narrow when phrasing my reply. Let me try again. I've never heard anyone, regardless of their religion, call Mary a whore, and receiving support from Christians while promoting this view. An example, then, will expand my horizons.

If, however, by some chance, your example is going to be:


The Jews are the only ones who spew religiously inspired insults towards Jesus.


then you can begin with pointing to any Jews who enjoy Christian support and call Mary a whore. As to false prophet, my understanding is that many Jews believe that Jesus was a fine Second-temple Jew, and agree with many Muslims that Jesus' followers distorted his teachings, or even simpler, downplayed them in favor of other things which they added to the religious movement.

Anyway,


I showed you the verse which shows God cannot be a man.


No, you showed me a verse where the speaker says that God is not a man who speaks falsely. The speaker goes on to suggest that God doesn't experience regret (over what he promises to do, presumably).

Granted, if God cannot speak falsely, then God cannot be a man who speaks falsely. How does this relate to our discussion about Jesus?


The Muslims say "Peace be upon him" or "Allahs blessings be upon him" after every mention of Jesus.


I really do understand that the Muslims' intent is not to insult. Nevertheless, a pillar of their faith is attacked, yet Christians rarely object, and never with violence in the current day. I find that commendable, and as I noted, you have complained about Christian acceptance of provocative statements that deny pillars of their faith. I think that difference between us on this point is discussable, since a goal of this thread is to urge Christians to embrace Muslims and reject Jews, based on the other two religions' (or their adherents') different attitudes towards Jesus.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 05:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 



And this is the same reasoning that allows Islam to think they can dispel hate with hate. Only love dispels hatred.


It has nothing to do with hate.
The "gospel according to" somebody is not the perfect Gospel of Jesus. It would have truth mixed with falsehoods.

Also why no word from Christians about Jesus' titles in Islam? Why do Christians teach the lie that Jesus is a "mere" prophet in Islam?


With that same reasoning you illigitimize your own Quran, a book that came 600 years after the fact, not based on any teachings of Christ's own Apostles.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 05:47 PM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



The truth is, Christians claim to "love" Jesus.... but in reality they love their doctrines. The same way the self-righteous Pharisees loved their "laws" and interpretations of it.


The truth is many muslims claim to "love" Jesus and "believe" in him, but they put a man, one Muhammad above the King himself. A man who was a murderer, a rapist, an adulterer for taking other men's wives as his own after he slew them, a liar, a betrayer (Mecca incident), a coveter who took what did not belong to him. And yet you claim you people love and believe in Jesus yet your goal is to pattern yourselves after Muhammad. Now that is quite a contradiction.


Which is why you find so many Christians... in their blind hatred of a religion that teaches Jesus is the messiah.... actually support the very people who insult Jesus... and call him a false prophet and a son of a whore.


You claim Jesus is Messiah, but Muhammad is the one who uses clever words to make people think he is the Messiah. He out Jesuses Jesus according to you people.




The most popular Christian response is that Jesus was both God and man.... or that he was some kind of "man-god". However, you will find that such a concept is NOT biblical. In fact, it resembles Hinduism that teaches God took on different forms and interacted with humans on earth. Many hindus actually believe Jesus was as "incarnation" of God who walked the earth


Hindus are closer to the truth than you are friend. You say Jesus being God and being a man isn't even remotely biblical. I disagree, because the hebrew bible says that is exactly who he is.

Isaiah 43:1-3 (doesn't stop here either)

But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob,
And He who formed you, O Israel:
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by your name;
You are Mine.
2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you.
When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
Nor shall the flame scorch you.
3 For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;

I gave Egypt for your ransom,
Ethiopia and Seba in your place.

Now lets look at Mark 1:23-24

23 Now there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit. And he cried out, 24 saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”

Even the demons confessed him, and he commanded them to be quite so as not to reveal him.

Isaiah 44:6-8

6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

7 And who can proclaim as I do?
Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me,
Since I appointed the ancient people.
And the things that are coming and shall come,
Let them show these to them.
8 Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.’”

Oh wait, who is saying this again?

Revelation 1:9-18 (Jesus claiming to be what? God)

9 I, John, both[e] your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and,[f] “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia:[g] to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me,[h] “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
And He who formed you from the womb:
“I am the Lord, who makes all things,
Who stretches out the heavens all alone,
Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;
25 Who frustrates the signs of the babblers,
And drives diviners mad;
Who turns wise men backward,
And makes their knowledge foolishness;
26 Who confirms the word of His servant,
And performs the counsel of His messengers;
Who says to Jerusalem, ‘You shall be inhabited,’
To the cities of Judah, ‘You shall be built,’
And I will raise up her waste places;
27 Who says to the deep, ‘Be dry!
And I will dry up your rivers’;
28 Who says of Cyrus, ‘He is My shepherd,
And he shall perform all My pleasure,
Saying to Jerusalem, “You shall be built,”
And to the temple, “Your foundation shall be laid.”’

So why don't you quit denying what the prophets say hm? You just cannot let go of your fabricated religion to see the truth, and your book of lies is what confuses you.
edit on 19-12-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 12:53 PM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 




The truth is, Christians claim to "love" Jesus.... but in reality they love their doctrines. The same way the self-righteous Pharisees loved their "laws" and interpretations of it.


So, have you ever asked yourself, "who are the Pharisees"?

What do you make of these verses?

Galatians 4:22-31

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.





new topics
top topics
 
5
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join