What I have become after 10 years of being a Christian Mystic...., page 7

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by dominicus

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Why do you still call yourself a Christian and what is the nature of Jesus Christ for you? Would you describe it as a relationship?

Because that was the path which birthed my awakening, various ego deaths and insights, third eye open, transcendence, all of it coming from Grace through the Christian path (after Baptism)

The Nature of Christ to me is an Enlightened Being who came to put an end to Archaic judaism, to show the way to Enlightenment and ego death, to kill the cycles of Karma/Sin, to wake up the general sleepwalking system, to teach detachment from this world and its systems of illusion, amongst book loads of various attributes of what the Nature of Christ is to me

reply to post by AfterInfinity

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Why would "God" create a race of beings that couldn't handle his presence?

Missed the entire point of the garden of Eden incident i see. He didn't create man to not be able to stand in his presence. Pick the book up sometime and read it.

reply to post by dominicus

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Sorry for the delay…

Christmas & New Year, were longer than expected lol

Originally posted by dominicus
YEa when I was studying to be a Christian, I asked about all the different views & denominations (and noticed that my evangelical teacher was very biased saying only they are right). Well bias can be bad when trying to find truth, so I studied all the various denominations and history on my own.

Yeah, I did exactly the same thing! I analyzed all the different doctrinal points in each denomination. But what I found along the way, is that I would eventually, after much study, agree with one doctrine from one specific denomination. And then with another doctrine, I would agree with a completely different denominational, perspective. This trend continued, until I eventually became a unique denomination in my own right lol

Sometime, after I thought to myself, “how could this happen?” all I have done, is become just like all the other Christian denominations. Although bizarrely, I still felt that I held the truth, still do in some parts.

But my journey, which I described in another post, is pretty unique, and I also came to believe in Jesus, slightly differently than standard Christianity, but with some standard stuff still remaining.

Looking back though I see the journey of searching for the truth, as being the most important aspect.

Originally posted by dominicus
Yea I found this out as well. Fortunately for me, the evangelicals had no clue about the deeper things that the Spirit reveals, so it was easy to dismiss them and find out which denominations are rich w/ Holy Spirit experiences.

Yes, this is something, which I am just finding out now!

Originally posted by dominicus
No doubt. However, there are still stages and degrees of growth after getting the Spirit. Without proper guidance/knowledge, you can get the Spirit and still be judgmental, condemning, condescending other groups, (instead of loving all, loving your neighbor). This is why so many people have a bad taste in their mouth about Jesus/Christianity. Ghandi said it best, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians". Rather sad state of events, and I look to change that.

Well said. This is what the Father God wants me to do. I.e. “Pay it forward”
“Be the change”, and to not set myself up as any kind of authority over men, lest I become just like the Pharisees that Jesus warned about in Matthew 23: verses 13-15.

Matthew 23: verses 13-15.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

I kind of see the majority of Christianity in the same sense as the above verse, but at the same time I know that it holds many truths…

The analogy below sums it up.

Imagine a slight blockage around a plug hole, water is still able to get through, but it would be better to remove the blockage completely, so that all the water can flow freely.

Originally posted by dominicus
I have lots of old Atheist friends that call me about Christianity, or advice, life issues, all because they told me Im the only Christian they know personally, that does not judge them and Loves the unconditionally. Very humbling to be told that.

Yes, I can believe it, you have a very good way about yourself.

Continued…

reply to post by dominicus

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Originally posted by dominicus
What's your take on this? I met a Costa Rican Christian and told him all my experiences from the Spirit, and he said he hasn't gone through them yet but that his dad is deep into it all. ANyway, he told me that at his Church, One can actually lose the Holy Spirit (by grieving the Spirit, all supportable by scripture), and that in order to get the Spirit back requires the elders at Church re-baptize you again and those that do have the Spirit to lay hands on you. I've found similar mention of something like this in E.O. as well.

Yes, it’s all supported by the Christian scriptures. I think I have gone through this myself, with the Spirit going and then returning. The problem for me was that in the beginning, I didn’t accept all of Christianity and I was still working my way through what the I believed to be true etc… And because of my dual journey, which only recently have I come to know had Buddhists elements to it, (as well as Gnostic) I have now started to continue my search in that area. I have recently started this with the teachings of the Buddha.


Although early last year, I began working my way through the Gnostic texts, and became strongly drawn to the Gnostic Christians, especially the ones who believed that Jesus was the Son of God.

Originally posted by dominicus
Literally. I would watch TV and can actually hear, feel, sense the Spirit float past me behind me. Roommates as well. I basically stopped watching TV for long periods of time after that and began to spend time in meditation to submit to the Holy Spirit and the inner changes after this.

Wow!…I’ve only ever seen it once, and it was just for a split second…at the time, I just thought I was seeing things that weren’t there…

Originally posted by dominicus
I still consider myself a "Christian Mystic Nondualist" for several reasons. Though they are all labels, and we are not labels, we are so much more than labels.

Originally posted by dominicus
The Christian part, is because I rep Christ. My whole life now revolves around completely what he was about and what he taught was possible for us as far as transformation goes and reaching a state where we are One in Christ and God. My whole Spiritual foundation is built upon Christ and what he represents to me. The relationship is still there, but it's very transcendent. Like if we were to sit next to each other, and we can just look at each other, and there is automatic Love there, transcendence, a knowing, a deep soul filled reverence for him and what he went through and whome he respesents.

Yes, I find it difficult to label myself, mainly because of my spiritual journey so far. I believe in certain aspects of Christianity (although not many) and I believe what some of the Gnostic Christians believed in, and some of what Buddhism teaches. (although admittedly I’m only just starting to search through the latter) But at the same time I don’t believe in ALL of Christianity, Buddhism or Gnostic Christianity.

In fact one of the key reasons why I don’t label myself Christian anymore, is because I have let go of the larger part of what modern Christianity teaches. And it’s for that reason alone, that I don’t think I can really call myself a Christian. I prefer to think of myself as a Believer in Yeshua, or a Yeshua follower!

There are only a few standard Christian beliefs that I still hold on to today. One important one, is that The Spirit of God, or Cosmic Consciousness, or The ALL, Spoke and lived through Jesus, and another is that I believe Jesus was raised from the dead, by the Father…there are a few others, but I’ll leave it there for now…

So anyway, this was the reason why I asked you the question, as to why you still see yourself as Christian, but I completely understand your answer to it, with regards to representing Christ etc…

Originally posted by dominicus
On top of that there is a rich Christian Mystic tradition that teaches asceticism, various prayers, vigils, retreats, studies of those granted Union, etc etc. There is more Christian material than just the Bible to give you a leg up on the enemy of your soul.

That’s interesting about the asceticism part, because back in 2009 during my spiritual journey, I basically avoided all contact with drink, woman, TV and even fast food etc… I basically just locked myself away for about 7 months, hermit style lol. My friends thought I was cracking up lol…and at times the world outside just seemed to melt away, as all I could focus on, was finding the truth! At that time, it was all that really mattered to me.

Continued…

reply to post by dominicus

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Originally posted by dominicus
Go to the wiki page of Christian Mysticism
Influential Christian Mystics
Study it, specifically the Mystics themselves and their writings, or the one's specifically who describe Union w/ God. Miester Eckhart being one of them.

The stages to Union are described also in various texts, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, The Cloud of Unknowing, Ladder of Divine Ascent. One of my Favorites is Philokalia, which is writings of the Desert Fathers who would live ascetically in the desert working on receiving the Spirit, perfecting prayer, psychological/sub-conscious cleansing, going within ...spending decades on inner work. These were Master's of following in Jesus' footsteps.

Thank you, I appreciate your input…

I will have to take a look at those texts.

Originally posted by dominicus
Yea it sounds about right. There are elements to the third eye different to everyone. For me, I actually saw through skin and brick walls, everything was made of light. But because I was taught like out buddy "Deetermined" that everything is literal and that "Mystical" is of the devil, my ego produced feared and cut off the third eye experience and various other inner experiences, all until I was sure that Western Christianity was a sham, a dogmatic literalism, lacking inner personal spiritual transformation, the blind leading the blind.

I think something similar happened to myself, but not out of fear, but rather out of just not knowing what was going on. Back then I didn’t even know what the third eye was, or that I even had one! The best way I can describe my experiences, was that it was as if my Pineal Gland was being tickled from the inside, with a very light feather. At times it was just gradual and at other times, it was more intense.

And strangely enough, at this time things just began to become more clear, where they hadn’t made any sense before, almost as if I was receiving a download, from some celestial hard drive in the sky, into my own Spirit.

I could go on, but I’ll leave it there for now.


Peace be with you…


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

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But my journey, which I described in another post, is pretty unique, and I also came to believe in Jesus, slightly differently than standard Christianity, but with some standard stuff still remaining. Looking back though I see the journey of searching for the truth, as being the most important aspect.

I have found that where I ended up as a Christian is completely beyond all labels, titles, detached from the world and the programming and things in it ...it is as if having one foot in this world, and the other permanently in the spiritual world.

Like said earlier in this thread, you can read of people getting the Holy Spirit in various different denominations including gnostic descriptions. So it's more so God is looking at the heart and genuineness instead of what denomination you belong to.

Well said. This is what the Father God wants me to do. I.e. “Pay it forward” “Be the change”, and to not set myself up as any kind of authority over men, lest I become just like the Pharisees that Jesus warned about in Matthew 23: verses 13-15.

Yeah, you can tell a tree by it's fruit. The man of God should be patient, loving, unmoving, firm, nonjudgmental, peaceful, transcendent, etc. I've read in an near death experience report of a couple people, that folks (especially various Christians) who Love to debate and argue, end up in a place in the afterlife where they are spending eternity debating/arguing with souls of other religions. That is a huge trap and their comes a time to rest and remain silent in solitude and the direct experiences.

And because of my dual journey, which only recently have I come to know had Buddhists elements to it, (as well as Gnostic) I have now started to continue my search in that area. I have recently started this with the teachings of the Buddha.

Buddhism is basically just the science of going within and the stages/levels of what happens within. Others have labeled it as a religion, but it's not. Its a whole meditation system as the goal being Enlightenment.

Although early last year, I began working my way through the Gnostic texts, and became strongly drawn to the Gnostic Christians, especially the ones who believed that Jesus was the Son of God.

Thomas especially was HUGE for me

I prefer to think of myself as a Believer in Yeshua, or a Yeshua follower!

The early Christians called themselves "Followers of The Way."

That’s interesting about the asceticism part, because back in 2009 during my spiritual journey, I basically avoided all contact with drink, woman, TV and even fast food etc… I basically just locked myself away for about 7 months, hermit style lol. My friends thought I was cracking up lol…and at times the world outside just seemed to melt away, as all I could focus on, was finding the truth! At that time, it was all that really mattered to me.

Asceticism is HUGE!!!! It should be a standard part of all denominations, or just in life in general. It's like the ultimate therapy. It is letting go of all accumulated worldly programming and getting back to the core self that was Aware as a child, on top of really being heard by God and getting close to God

best way I can describe my experiences, was that it was as if my Pineal Gland was being tickled from the inside, with a very light feather. At times it was just gradual and at other times, it was more intense.

YEah the third eye is HUGE. Jesus refers to it as "If Thine Eye is SIngle, they whole Body shall be full of Light". It i the torch of illumination that lights up the inner realms, shows you the ego and how it functions, shows you consciousness (source of) existing in the hear area and not the head), shows you the source of animalism of the body (adamic Mind) and allows direct knowledge of these aspects of you for the sake of overcoming them by Surrender/letting go into Union w/ God which overcomes and transcends all these lower base natures.

It is literally a HUGE battle between the Head(ego) and the Heart(Love/God)

And strangely enough, at this time things just began to become more clear, where they hadn’t made any sense before, almost as if I was receiving a download, from some celestial hard drive in the sky, into my own Spirit. I could go on, but I’ll leave it there for now.

YEah the downloads continue here as well. Sometimes seeing things before they happen or knowing of a phone call before it happens, or divine love, channels opening up through out the body.

Check this out as well:
Christian Mysticism Meditations and Inner Knowledge

reply to post by dominicus

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Originally posted by dominicus
I have found that where I ended up as a Christian is completely beyond all labels, titles, detached from the world and the programming and things in it ...it is as if having one foot in this world, and the other permanently in the spiritual world.

This is the only part of your OP, and your other posts that I don’t understand. As humans we don’t always like to be labeled or categorized etc…And you yourself agree that your beliefs are beyond labels…so why do you still cling to the title of Christian, or Christian X/anything?

From my own perspective, because I have let go of about 80% of Christianity, I just don’t feel it would be fair, to others to label myself as such. I base this on similar reasons to yourself, in that I know that my current beliefs are beyond labels.

In one respect I wish I could call myself a Christian, primarily because I follow Christ etc, but at the same time, I know that the modern interpretation of the word, “Christian” does not fit with my overall beliefs.

I also believe that the early Gnostic Christians were the original Christians, and that much of modern Christianity, was largely determined by the early RCC.

You said the early Christians were “followers of the way”; But if I follow the way and call myself a Christian, then most everyday people are going to think I’m a modern day believing Christian. This is the main reason why I have ditched the label altogether.

Originally posted by dominicus
Like said earlier in this thread, you can read of people getting the Holy Spirit in various different denominations including gnostic descriptions. So it's more so God is looking at the heart and genuineness instead of what denomination you belong to.

Yes I agree… this is one key aspect that I believe permeates throughout all of Christendom, irrespective of the denomination.

Originally posted by dominicus
Yeah, you can tell a tree by it's fruit. The man of God should be patient, loving, unmoving, firm, nonjudgmental, peaceful, transcendent, etc. I've read in an near death experience report of a couple people, that folks (especially various Christians) who Love to debate and argue, end up in a place in the afterlife where they are spending eternity debating/arguing with souls of other religions. That is a huge trap and their comes a time to rest and remain silent in solitude and the direct experiences.

This is something which I slightly, only slightly mind you, disagree with.
I think that as long as a debate does turn into a long list of ad hominems (or any at all), then it’s ok. Also the spirit of the debate/discussion has to be of a certain character, to be of mutual benefit.

I saw your discussion with NorEaster on the “Secrets to Nirvana…” thread, where you were talking about Infinity etc. I personally lean towards your own perspective on the subject, as you can probably tell by my location. But Anyway, I thought it was an awesome discussion, on both sides!… although there were times, when it was close to boiling over.

I was kind of reminded of that scene in the Matrix wear Seraph fights with Neo. Afterwards Neo asks why he attacked him, and he replies, “You do not truly know someone until you fight them”

What I have found along my own journey, is that not only is the above true, when you debate/discuss a subject etc, but what is also true, is that you also get to know yourself and God better. I find that from differing view points and where there is apparent friction, differing views etc… new understandings, can sprout and rise up from it.

And interestingly enough, Jacob who famously wrestled with God in the OT, did so in a place called “Peniel” or “Penuel”, which translates to “face of God”….hence, Jacob was said to be face to face with God. Of course many make a mystical connection to the “peniel gland”, as being the place where spirutal contact with God can take place.

- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

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This is the only part of your OP, and your other posts that I don’t understand. As humans we don’t always like to be labeled or categorized etc…And you yourself agree that your beliefs are beyond labels…so why do you still cling to the title of Christian, or Christian X/anything?

We use labels to communicate. Someone eventually asks, "What are you?" ....well though the answer to "what am I" is entirely beyond words and concepts, I still usual use the proper "label" for the other persons sake of understanding. For example when a Fundy asks, I say "Christian Mystic Nondualist" which really puts a dent in their bias bubble and so they begin to ask questions, sparking conversation.

A Buddhist (fellow meditator at a retreat)asked me what I am, I said Christian Mystic ...which also dented his bias bubble and sparked debate.

The label is more so a useful bias boundary encroachment device, then something to cling to. Though if someone put a pistol to my head and told me to Deny Christ, Oneness, the Absolute, God .... more than willing to take lead for sake of truth.

You said the early Christians were “followers of the way”; But if I follow the way and call myself a Christian, then most everyday people are going to think I’m a modern day believing Christian. This is the main reason why I have ditched the label altogether.

Hear you completely. Another deal for me, is that I left the mega churches and there are still thousands there, still undergoing psychological issues and not knowing how to progress spiritually because of watered down teachings. So there is still sooo much suffering within the Fundy/Dogma/Western scene. So I tend to cater to some of those folks as well, by using their labels, language, verses, etc to show them that an inner transformation has to happen, letting go, surrender, wisdom, etc

This is something which I slightly, only slightly mind you, disagree with. I think that as long as a debate does turn into a long list of ad hominems (or any at all), then it’s ok. Also the spirit of the debate/discussion has to be of a certain character, to be of mutual benefit.

Debates can be beneficial. However one must tread carefully because then the ego can be fully established/embellished and an addiction to debates can also come to fruition.

I saw your discussion with NorEaster on the “Secrets to Nirvana…” thread, where you were talking about Infinity etc. I personally lean towards your own perspective on the subject, as you can probably tell by my location. But Anyway, I thought it was an awesome discussion, on both sides!… although there were times, when it was close to boiling over.

Some people need to be hit over the head with certain arguments a few hundred times until they finally get it. Me and him actually agree (well at least I do) to most of his world view, along with mine. Though he needs 200+ pages of intellectual masterbation in order to make points with additional points to prove those points. Basically he's breaking everything down into pieces, systems, microcosm and macrocosm.

Thing is, what does his system solve? We still have hunger, war, death, disease, corruption, etc.

My view is ...the person is the problem and the solution. It's a war within between ego in ignorance and enlightenment/Oneness/Union. The more that people learn how to be established in the Latter, the more we solve the problems of the former. Not only that but that state of Enlightenment/Union, you are directly merged into the Source of all things, the very fundamental building block of all of reality .....so there is no longer really any need to systematically break down reality to prove to anyone that you have it figured out.

So I'm left with ..."Hey, I saw these things, and this is how I got there. If you want go see for yourself it these things are true." Noreaster is saying, use logic and reason to figure out my 200+ pages. He's like an early Ken Wilber.

I was kind of reminded of that scene in the Matrix wear Seraph fights with Neo. Afterwards Neo asks why he attacked him, and he replies, “You do not truly know someone until you fight them”

You have a point

What I have found along my own journey, is that not only is the above true, when you debate/discuss a subject etc, but what is also true, is that you also get to know yourself and God better. I find that from differing view points and where there is apparent friction, differing views etc… new understandings, can sprout and rise up from it.

Thing is, how o you argue that you've merged with the Source of consciousness and are no more to be? It's an experience that is beyond mind/logic/reason. All I can say is see for yourself

reply to post by dominicus

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Originally posted by dominicus
For example when a Fundy asks, I say "Christian Mystic Nondualist" which really puts a dent in their bias bubble and so they begin to ask questions, sparking conversation.
A Buddhist (fellow meditator at a retreat)asked me what I am, I said Christian Mystic ...which also dented his bias bubble and sparked debate.

This ties in with the other part of my reply, about how discussing differences, can sometimes help to bring in new understandings; except your using your label to kick-start the discussion… very enlightening indeed!.

I suppose at least having the “Mystic Nondualist” part thrown in there, your helping to clarify your position better. Problem for me, is that I don’t want to mislead people, by saying I’m a Christian, etc and combined with the fact that I’m not sure if I’m a “mystic”, or “Non-dualist”, means that I cant really use those terms either. I’m kinda stuck for a name right now

Originally posted by dominicus
“bias boundary encroachment device”

LOL

I like it! Bit of a mouthful though, but yeah, gota get me one of those lol

Originally posted by dominicus
Hear you completely. Another deal for me, is that I left the mega churches and there are still thousands there, still undergoing psychological issues and not knowing how to progress spiritually because of watered down teachings.

I feel what your saying and I have similar concerns. Like I was saying in one of my other posts, I can see huge parallels between Matthew 23: verses 13-15, and modern Christianity, whereby people are blindly following, the doctrines of whatever denomination they happen to belong to etc.

I also see a big divide between those who just believe by faith and those who come to believe through spiritual experience. Although even in the latter group of people, they can end up accepting doctrines, which can be false.

Jesus also said that we should put our faith in him, which IMO means him alone; but in modern Christianity, this is instead included to mean also putting your faith, in other men’s words, and the following of various doctrines and Dogma.

I’ve also found that much of Christianity is largely about following the Apostle Paul, and although his writings make up 50% of the NT, I find it a little bit strange that Paul (assuming it’s Paul to begin with), only ever quotes Jesus once!

I say “assuming its Paul”, because I have a strong hunch, that Paul was most likely a Gnostic Christian, who’s words were edited, by the early Church founders.

Originally posted by dominicus
My view is ...the person is the problem and the solution. It's a war within between ego in ignorance and enlightenment/Oneness/Union. The more that people learn how to be established in the Latter, the more we solve the problems of the former.

I have this crazy theory that the Garden of Eden and the “Fall of Man”, was really all about the Knowledge of God being taken away from us, by an evil source, perhaps even by our own negative/ego selves. And that there was a time when everyone lived with this knowledge, of their divine connection to God etc This is what I think Jesus meant when he Said that Satan, the Father of lies, was now the ruler of this world. Solely because people no longer live in the Truth.

Originally posted by Joecroft
I was kind of reminded of that scene in the Matrix wear Seraph fights with Neo. Afterwards Neo asks why he attacked him, and he replies, “You do not truly know someone until you fight them”

Originally posted by dominicus
You have a point

And by “Fight” I meant that as analogy, to debating/discussing something intensely or tersely;

Just wanted to make that clear, but I think you got that.

Originally posted by dominicus
Thing is, how o you argue that you've merged with the Source of consciousness and are no more to be?

LOL

Well, I guess, you can’t! is the simply answer.

Originally posted by dominicus
It's an experience that is beyond mind/logic/reason. All I can say is see for yourself

Absolutely; You just can’t give someone the experience and say “here it is”, but you can, as you rightly pointed out, show them how you got there, and how they can get there too. I still have a lot learn in this regard, myself.

If a person is not open to even trying to experience it, then the best you can do, apart from giving your own testimony, is to discuss/Debate topics that connect into the oneness mystery, like Infinity, science, mysticism, Ancient texts, Mathematics etc, of course when you do this, you know yourself that your not coming at it, from a point of ego, but from a point of truth.

- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

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I suppose at least having the “Mystic Nondualist” part thrown in there, your helping to clarify your position better. Problem for me, is that I don’t want to mislead people, by saying I’m a Christian, etc and combined with the fact that I’m not sure if I’m a “mystic”, or “Non-dualist”, means that I cant really use those terms either. I’m kinda stuck for a name right now

Thing for me is, I can't ever deny Christ. All my initial ego deaths and ecstatic experiences came from Loving Christ and seeking God. He's written in my heart ...its just a living breathing understanding of him beyond what the Bible says. Christ to me is like Air.

I feel what your saying and I have similar concerns. Like I was saying in one of my other posts, I can see huge parallels between Matthew 23: verses 13-15, and modern Christianity, whereby people are blindly following, the doctrines of whatever denomination they happen to belong to etc.

Oh yeah. The other thing is the words in red attributed to Christ, are of the highest caliber consciousness and understanding. Everything else not in red in the OT is from lower perspectives. Take for example the 50% attributed to Paul. There is quote paraphrased where he is saying "The things I don't want to do, I do. The things I should be doing, I don't do." He was referencing his ongoing battles of the Spirit/heart versus the old ways of the ego and flesh.

Jesus already had that on lock down so he was automatically dropping some of the highest jewels wrapped in parables.

I also think that Jesus being born of a virgin actually happened as well. I think that was by design so that the Matrix that is on all of us, based on the body/ego constructs passed down from biological parents, to him they weren't all fully there. He was already born with self mastery and transcendence of lower nature. That's just a theory though.

There was another time I was preaching to a cousin and a friend about Christ a looong time ago, just wrapped up in the Spirit, the words were coming out but they weren't from me... and then the words came out, "And Jesus was the first Soul" ...Which my mind was shocked about. I wondered for the rest of the day what that meant. Well when you look up "Jesus first soul" it gets real deep. ALl of sudden Edgar Cayce pops up and supposedly he said that Jesus was the first Soul made of God and One w/ God and all this other interesting stuff. Makes ya think!!!!

I also see a big divide between those who just believe by faith and those who come to believe through spiritual experience. Although even in the latter group of people, they can end up accepting doctrines, which can be false.

WHat ends up happening, is someone will have an experience and they will logically conclude that, "God gave me this experience because I'm in the correct denomination with the correct doctrinal views." That can be a big trap!!!!

Jesus also said that we should put our faith in him, which IMO means him alone; but in modern Christianity, this is instead included to mean also putting your faith, in other men’s words, and the following of various doctrines and Dogma.

Yea. I also got the vibe that super watering down advanced spiritual science using the terminology of the Jewish scriptures and OT.

If he was to come back here today, I think he would basically hold retreats in the wilderness where he would systematically strip down your ego and hit you with the Spirit so hard, you'd be instantly in the One.

I have this crazy theory that the Garden of Eden and the “Fall of Man”, was really all about the Knowledge of God being taken away from us, by an evil source, perhaps even by our own negative/ego selves. And that there was a time when everyone lived with this knowledge, of their divine connection to God etc This is what I think Jesus meant when he Said that Satan, the Father of lies, was now the ruler of this world. Solely because people no longer live in the Truth.

This part has tons of Gnosticism to it, but interestingly is he Eastern Orthodox view.

The E.O. believe that in the garden (which wasn't just adam and eve, but man kind and woman kind) we were originally already established in Union w/ God while here on earth in flesh bodies without Ego. The serpent tricked us w/ the fruit, which activated a false ego center, which itself blocks the experience of Union.

Though I've also heard the reverse. That the God in OT in the Garden was a demiurge/lower god, trying to keep us from Union and that the serpent told us of the fruit which lead to instant Enlightenment and being freed from the Demiurge.

Sooo many views, so little time. My whole thing is, don't waste your time while on earth. Get enlightenment/Union and live from that state.

reply to post by dominicus

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Thanks for the great post.

It motivates me further in my quest to discover the truth like what you did.

Honestly, I'm still faaaaaaaaaaaaaar away in my progress.
Last night when I meditated, I realized that I'm still too attached to this world.
My ego is too high. Very noisy

But I will do my best to reach the finish line.

Thanks!!

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by maes2

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religions are not just labels. they are the guidance the light. so regard it as an advice from a friend. stick to monotheistic religions.

actually buddhism is just a label. It's basically a set on instructions and blueprints on what happens when you meditate and penetrate the inner realms, freeing one's self from the illusions of the ego mind. Very simple actually. It's ignorant and uneducated Westernized Dogmatic Christians who usually say such things as, "Anything that's not of the Bible, is of the Devil."

those who have emanated from the only truth the only God.

I believe Buddhism is in a way montheistic. Buddha didn't want to use the word "God" as any word, thought, idea, imagination of or about God, is not the same as God itself. He talked about an Absolute State, Buddhahood, Supreme state, which would be in the vein of directly experiencing God, or Union w/ God, or Christhood, Enlightenment, etc

you do not need Buddhism. every person can experience such things but are all of them right !

There are things I've learned in Buddhism that I would have never learned in watered down westernized dogmatic Christianity. I've learned about the ego, it's tricks and illusions, the signals and animalism of the physical body, various aspects of psychology and quieting the ego mind which ravages like a lion dealing in assumptions and projections, and various other awesome facts which has enriched my relationship to God, Jesus, etc

are all of them near the truth ! what if they are deceived by satan !

Buddhism is very practical, factual, experiential, logical, and reasonable.

The thought of a rock, is not the same as an actual physical rock, so who you think you are, is not who you are.

It's as simple as the above statement. The above statement is Logic, reason, and is not owned by any religion nor does it have to do with satan. If you can unravel the above Koan, you will experience an Absolute Truth, and Absolute Beingness (same one Jesus talked about when he said that he and the father are one)

I believe what you are saying. I prefer to call absolute truth love, as i think this bridges the gap the way Christ was explaining. Many people still need to accept that he loves us before they can see the truth. This was Christ purpose, not to die for a righteous man, but to die for us who needed this Grace that he has extended to us.

Maybe the world taught you a better message than the one I was taught. Because of this you were not in need of this bridge. I needed this bridge and could not have been saved without Grace.

I am not denying the testimony of anyone who was looking to share the message of love that they had been taught by the spirit. To me Christ is the absolute truth, and Christ is absolute love. So If I want to be like him I must love everyone in absolute truth.

reply to post by sacgamer25

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Absolute truth is not love. Love stands opposed to hate, at the exact opposite of the bias spectrum. That's why I say hate and love are simply two sides of the same coin. They have the same purpose, the same vector (in every sense of the word) but in opposite directions. Love is the absence of hate, and hate is the absence of love. Without either, the other has no meaning.

Absolute truth is knowing the absolute nature of an idea or concept. If you know the absolute nature, then you know how others will see it. And you will know why it will be hated, or why it will be loved. That is the absolute truth, is to know WHY. As long as you know why, you can figure anything else out. And if you can't figure it out, you won't need to, but you will still know why you couldn't. And if that isn't enough, then you are insecure with your lack of ability. That isn't something to be ashamed of, it's just something to work on.

Because you know why it's necessary. The most important question is always WHY.

reply to post by dominicus

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Anyway, I recently watched the movie based on the comic The Watchmen, and saw that I've become similar in attitude and thought to the character Dr. Manhattan(minus the powers):

I don't want to label you Dominicus, but by all appearances, you are like Dr. Manhattan, a nihilist. You see your body and all that is physical as without value. You yearn for the supersensory. You don't fear death because you no longer value life. You're investing in that which doesn't pertain to this existence.

In my opinion, you are lost. But hopefully for you, my opinion, much like myself and everything physical around you, have little value.

In the graphic novel Watchmen, the character The Comedian/Edward Blake is characterized as being a nihilist, both moral and political, to the extent of openly committing murder in order to demonstrate the lack of human concern or nerve (stating that Dr. Manhattan could have stopped him at any moment, but chose not to). Dr. Manhattan is also portrayed as a nihilist on the cosmic scale by stating if the Earth was destroyed and all life on it eradicated, the universe would not notice.

Nihilism

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

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I don't want to label you Dominicus, but by all appearances, you are like Dr. Manhattan, a nihilist.

Perhaps instead of Nihilism, we can substitute for detachment or dispassion, albeit with compassion and Love.

You see your body and all that is physical as without value.

On the contrary, I have seen the possibility, that perhaps inhabiting a physical vessel was necessary for the sake of various transcendent insights and a possible permanent enlightenment. However, just like driving in a car and knowing the car is not you, just a vehicle, this as a direct perspective in my reality, that the physical vessel, is but a vehicle for this realm, and inherently is not who I am (same deal with the thinking mind, which just another tool to use for thinking, the way ears are for hearing, eyes fro seeing, etc)

You yearn for the supersensory.

Yearning is all but dead in my reality. There is just resting, Being, etc. Yearning is of the Mind, I am not the mind.

You don't fear death because you no longer value life.

There is here a state beyond value. Everything Is, and this ISness is naked, beyond any values given to it. Before people existed, who was there to add the projection of "Value" to any part of reality? None. It's a mental projection

You're investing in that which doesn't pertain to this existence.

There is no investing in Anything. Everything is as it is. There is no need to project mental conditions on an unconditioned reality.

In my opinion, you are lost. But hopefully for you, my opinion, much like myself and everything physical around you, have little value.

Opinion, again is just a mental projection, assumption. If anything, I have found myself, found naked reality, found home, and home is a transcendent Beingness. There is no "me" in this as "me" is a mental projection/fabrication. It is truly like being Home. No place other than the Now ......

If you would have asked the "Me" of 10 years ago if any of these realities, experiences, and Being was possible, I would have scoffed at you from an infinite ocean of skepticism. Now, there is no place I would rather Be as I am no longer living life, but life is living me

In the graphic novel Watchmen, the character The Comedian/Edward Blake is characterized as being a nihilist, both moral and political, to the extent of openly committing murder in order to demonstrate the lack of human concern or nerve (stating that Dr. Manhattan could have stopped him at any moment, but chose not to). Dr. Manhattan is also portrayed as a nihilist on the cosmic scale by stating if the Earth was destroyed and all life on it eradicated, the universe would not notice.

Nihilism, is indeed a state on the road of further insights and experiences. It is merely a sign post along the way as there are deeper further truths than Nihilism has to offer. As stated earlier, in my view there is a dispassion and detachment, albeit tempered with compassion and Love.

In the Movie, Dr. Manhattan kills Rorschach to prevent him from revealing what happened, as that would introduce even more troubles/drama's/wars into the world. In a sense, it's sacrificing one for the sake of the whole. Personally don't now if I would have done it, were I in his shoes, but its definitely a potent point to consider in big scheme of things

reply to post by dominicus

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Read the book. It's much better!

I realize it was a mistake to attempt to quantify you according to the appearance I conceived of you. But it is what I observed and deduced from your words. Thank you for clarifying further.

My issue is the whole physical vessel guided by a soul, a conception no doubt derived from Christian teachings and a Pythagorean and Platonic outlook common in philosophical thought, not from any sort of empirical source, but I am sure you've experienced some things you assume verify this outlook. But how can you abstract yourself from your body if you are forever within it, even at the moments you think you are outside of it? Could this not be another veil you must learn to see past?

I understand the whole ascetic way of life of Christian mysticism, but why stop there? Why not experiment with it and move past it? Is it because it aligns with whatever indoctrinations you've become accustomed to? I am always curious why great minds seem to settle on one particular way of thinking. You, for instance, have been doing it for ten years. Could you yourself not evolve past it?

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

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My issue is the whole physical vessel guided by a soul, a conception no doubt derived from Christian teachings and a Pythagorean and Platonic outlook common in philosophical thought, not from any sort of empirical source, but I am sure you've experienced some things you assume verify this outlook. But how can you abstract yourself from your body if you are forever within it, even at the moments you think you are outside of it? Could this not be another veil you must learn to see past?

I understand it like a submarine. You use it to experience an environment whose very nature would otherwise prove incapacitating or a hindrance to the operator's own essential nature. However, should the operator train themselves, they will find they are able to venture beyond the submarine and directly experience the environment.

This is, of course, a loose analogy, but I hope it gets the point across.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by sacgamer25

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Absolute truth is not love. Love stands opposed to hate, at the exact opposite of the bias spectrum. That's why I say hate and love are simply two sides of the same coin. They have the same purpose, the same vector (in every sense of the word) but in opposite directions. Love is the absence of hate, and hate is the absence of love. Without either, the other has no meaning.

Absolute truth is knowing the absolute nature of an idea or concept. If you know the absolute nature, then you know how others will see it. And you will know why it will be hated, or why it will be loved. That is the absolute truth, is to know WHY. As long as you know why, you can figure anything else out. And if you can't figure it out, you won't need to, but you will still know why you couldn't. And if that isn't enough, then you are insecure with your lack of ability. That isn't something to be ashamed of, it's just something to work on.

Because you know why it's necessary. The most important question is always WHY.

This is well said by mans logic but most will be driven insane by the world you have created. You live in a world of duality, cause and effect. What we see on the earthly plain is indeed governed by cause and effect.

Now God, the creator, the father, call him what you will he is plainly not bound by cause and effect. Why are you trying to use the laws of this world to find that which is above the laws of this world. He is not subject to law but he is a law none the less. The law is love, and he is love. Love is what holds everything together. Any relationship without love falls apart. Believe he is as big as you want but hold to the truth that his law is love.

Believe that if we pursue love, honestly give ourselves to love someone else that we will find love.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

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I like the analogy, but if the submariner was to open the latch, surely death would be immanent.

Perhaps a better analogy would be the body itself. If we were to open up our body to let the spirit out to maybe walk around for a bit and stretch its legs, what would happen?

reply to post by dominicus

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Originally posted by dominicus
Thing for me is, I can't ever deny Christ. All my initial ego deaths and ecstatic experiences came from Loving Christ and seeking God. He's written in my heart ...its just a living breathing understanding of him beyond what the Bible says. Christ to me is like Air.

Yes, I find my own belief in Jesus, goes beyond most standard beliefs also.

Originally posted by dominicus
I also think that Jesus being born of a virgin actually happened as well.

This is one aspect of Christianity which, very early on, I always assumed was just a myth; I know that the Ancient Ebonite’s had that aspect removed from the Gospel of Matthew, but were seriously reprimanded for it, by the Early RCC.

Recently though and because I’m now aware of certain spiritual forces, that do exist, I think the “virgin birth” is entirely possibly. But for most people it just sounds absurd to talk about such things, until they have experienced things connected with Spirit.

Originally posted by dominicus
There was another time I was preaching to a cousin and a friend about Christ a looong time ago, just wrapped up in the Spirit, the words were coming out but they weren't from me... and then the words came out, "And Jesus was the first Soul" ...Which my mind was shocked about. I wondered for the rest of the day what that meant.

Well, believe it or not, but I actually believe this to be true also, and is one important part, of my belief in Jesus. And IMO it’s also the reason why Jesus is called “The Son of God” precisely because He is the first Soul. I’ve also taken it much further than that though. (See Proverbs 8 below)

Originally posted by dominicus
Well when you look up "Jesus first soul" it gets real deep. ALl of sudden Edgar Cayce pops up and supposedly he said that Jesus was the first Soul made of God and One w/ God and all this other interesting stuff. Makes ya think!!!!

I believe Cayce also stated that Cosmic Consciousness, aka the Spirit of God also spoke through Jesus, which I also believe to be true.

I’ve base my above 2 understandings on Proverbs 8…

Proverbs 8:22:23

“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.

And…

Proverbs 8:27-28

I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,

And…

Proverbs 8: 34-36

Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the LORD.
But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me love death.”

I believe the above verses are Jesus speaking, about himself, and the Lord God.

Because of this, I see Jesus and the Father as our co-creators. I believe Jesus the man, (flesh) housed the “Son of Gods” Spirit, but that it also housed the Spirit of the Living God.

This is the reason why I believe, Jesus often says, “the words you hear, are not my own, but the Fathers who sent me”. Essentially two Spirits in one flesh IMO. Of course, I can’t make people believe in this, but I have found that overall, it makes a lot more sense, and leaves no contradictions within the verses, that are more commonly associated, with the Trinity etc…

Originally posted by dominicus
WHat ends up happening, is someone will have an experience and they will logically conclude that, "God gave me this experience because I'm in the correct denomination with the correct doctrinal views." That can be a big trap!!!!

Totally agree, it’s a huge trap for many. The only up side I can think of, is that at least they’re open to God and spiritual matters, and can maybe one day, find a way out.

- JC

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