What I have become after 10 years of being a Christian Mystic....

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Which means he also chose ahead of time exactly who he was going to throw into the fiery lake, without making a single attempt to prove himself so that they may be saved. After all, we are his children, but there are those of us whom he just does not want. He would rather watch them burn than make himself evident to the point that they will do what he wants. What a douche...

Your logic is backwards. He doesn't "choose" ahead of time, he only "knows" ahead of time which way we're going to choose. The Bible says that there is plenty of proof of God's existence, we can either choose to see it or choose to ignore it.

There is plenty of evidence in the Bible too of Jesus proving his existence and relationship to God and people chose to ignore him, even though he walked the face of the earth performing miracles and repeating things to them that God had already told them.

In Luke 16:19-31, we hear about the rich man who begs Abraham to send Lazarus from the dead to preach to his brothers about hell and it's existence. What was Abraham's response? That if the rich man's brothers wouldn't listen to Moses and the prophets, then they wouldn't listen to a man risen from the dead either. In man's mind, there is no limit to proof. The more proof we get, the more we ask for. It's never enough for all.

reply to post by Deetermined

Your logic is backwards. He doesn't "choose" ahead of time, he only "knows" ahead of time which way we're going to choose. The Bible says that there is plenty of proof of God's existence, we can either choose to see it or choose to ignore it.

So this omniscient, omnipotent being can create a universe... but finds that a simple matter of proving himself to one of his children defeats him? If he can destroy Sodom, he can most surely save every person who is capable of being saved. All it takes is one day on earth. I'm not talking about Jesus, either. I am talking about pure "God", 100% incarnate, walking the globe for 24 hours spreading his personal testimony and proving himself to the children he so dearly loves. It is a better alternative than demanding we believe without proof lest we be condemned to an eternity of fiery torment.

But why even create a race of children who need to be saved? Such actions stink of a need for attention. Looks like your little god is lonely. It's no surprise, considering all the horrific inventions he is responsible for. Like the kids who build homemade nuclear reactors. No social life to speak of, but they have the potential to create or destroy everything.

There is plenty of evidence in the Bible too of Jesus proving his existence and relationship to God and people chose to ignore him, even though he walked the face of the earth performing miracles and repeating things to them that God had already told them.

The Bible is not evidence of itself. I grow weary of repeating this.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


First of all, the appearance of God at 100% would kill everyone on the spot.

ALL will know of Jesus at his second coming, whether dead or alive, in heaven or on earth or under the earth.

Philippians 2:10

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

reply to post by Deetermined

First of all, the appearance of God at 100% would kill everyone on the spot.

That's not what I said. You can have 1/1000 of "God" and it would be 100% "God". Or you could put 100/100 of "God" into a jar and it could be 1/1000 "God" and the rest just empty air.

Why would "God" create a race of beings that couldn't handle his presence?

ALL will know of Jesus at his second coming, whether dead or alive, in heaven or on earth or under the earth.

Philippians 2:10

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

I asked for evidence and logical deduction, not a sermon. If that is all you have to give me, then this discussion is over. Sermons prove nothing except a willingness to not ask questions.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Ask God then.

Obviously, based on your posting history, no one else's answers are ever good enough for you.

reply to post by Deetermined

Ask God then.

Obviously, based on your posting history, no one else's answers are ever good enough for you.

It's that fact that they are satisfied with such answers that confuses me. These answers are not answers at all, they are feints.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I'm just going to say that I can only speculate as to WHY God does anything. These are difficult questions to answer because our thoughts aren't God's thoughts.

My answer to why God might create humans even though they aren't able to see him in his full glory, would be because of the angels that he had already created. According to the Bible, a third of the angels in Heaven will follow Satan even though they already have full knowledge of the truth. So, just maybe, God wanted to create a race that would follow him by faith instead of by knowledge knowing or thinking that more might follow him. Or maybe he wanted a race that did NOT have all of the powers of the angels to disrespect him with by using what God gave them against him. (I don't know.)

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

First of all, the appearance of God at 100% would kill everyone on the spot.

If you saw God everything you ever 'believed' in would die. Only the one true son of God would be left.

reply to post by Deetermined

Then why is it that you keep misinterpreting the Bible? I think it's clear from all of your previous posts that it's because you've gotten away from the Bible and spend more time studying the philosophy of men and texts written by spiritual gurus instead.

Is the Bible not "the philosophy of men based on their interactions with God/Jesus/Spirit.?"

1. The Bible is a bunch of things. Author's opinion filtered through cultural & subjective bias & level of intellect & spiritual understanding. Poetry, opinion, similes/metaphors, symbolic, historical reporting, genealogy, amongst many many other things.

2. Not all the Author's of the gospels were in the highest possible Spiritual state. Obviously, the word's in red, by Jesus himself (or his direct teaching's as heard by the author's), hold the most weight, considering He and the Father are One, he was operating from and teaching from God's perspective directly.

All other author's, were not Spiritually in a frame of mind that Jesus was in. Even Paul admits that he is a work in progress:
Romans 7:15: "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."

So the word's of Christ is that of God's perspective and someone with Self Mastery. Whereas Paul was still working out self mastery and may have never gotten there.

3. You now have the hundreds, if not thousands, of denominations, all of whom say they are right, and other denominations are wrong, all arguing the tenets of the Bible that are filtered between Number's 1 & 2 above.

4.Then you have like Afterinfinity said in the following logic: "The Bible is the word of God" = "Because the Bible tells us so," = "The Bible is Infallible" = "Because the Bible is the Word of God." = ad infinitum.

The other 2 Abrahamic(Islam, Judaism) based religions also use the above Logic as well. Not all 3 can be right. Just like not all denominations can be right. Which denomination are you?

Personally, my view after getting the Spirit is that the Teachings of Christ and getting the Spirit are the Most Important, and the OT shows how things were, while the NT shows how everything changes and becomes easier based on the Grace of God, Furthermore, the Bible is a book of instructions, a guide post, blueprints, and the Bible is not God himself and not to be worshiped."

All I ask is that you compare these mystical experiences you have against scripture as a back up.

Already did in previous posts, especially the One where the Spirit will teach things that no man can teach. Mystical Spiritual realities shown to me directly, transcendent Love of all, ego death, and the list goes on and on. The scripture on getting the Holy Spirit, on all the scriptures I already posted that point to ego death. The fact that there are thousands of monasteries around the world with Christian monks who have also undergone, or are in the process of undergoing, all of the same experiences I went through.

There is just way too much to support/justify my mystical experiences.

On top of this, very many Christian monks, who are all day praying/meditating, working on their relationship w/ Christ, also eventually remember pre-existing.

While you may choose to use John 17 to explain your definition of "Christian non-duality", you need to read all of the verses in this chapter closely.

Jesus prays over and over again for God to consider his disciples to be like him "that they MAY BE one" like Jesus and God were. Jesus said he "manifested God's name" unto them and that he had "given unto them", and kept them in God's name while he was on earth, but now he needed the Holy Spirit to take over since he was leaving the earth.

THat's what happened to me. Got the Spirit and eventually that planted in my heart a deep rooted longing for experiencing God/Union, Christhood, complete death of the old self, to completely live up to "Not I, but Christ in Me" as Paul said in Gal 2:20

At the time I did not understand this longing in my heart for Union (while my ego/mind thought theologically the way you did). There was the schism between Heart based intuition, or head based literal dogma. Eventually I found that in the Monks, this quickening/longing in the heart is born from the Holy Spirit for Mystical Union/Completion.

The verses above do not imply "absorption". They imply that as long as we are living in this world that we need help from above to continue in our walk with God.

I agree we need help, but absorption is born in the heart from the Spirit. Something that does not happen alot in the West, because very few go through a hard core Holy Spirit transformation. You sound to be all head based dogma, and no heart transforming Holy Spirit experience based transcendence.

continued....

reply to post by Deetermined

continued...

You speak so much about logic and reason. If you're thinking logically, you'd be asking yourself, if we all existed as spirits before we were given bodies, what was the need for Jesus Christ to die on the cross?

We may have all pre-existed, but on earth physical realm there is still sin and reap what you sow. There is still the need for spiritual transformation and the need for blueprints on how to remember our nature as Souls.

Job, chapters 37-39 make it clear that God told Job that he wasn't around at the time of creation, so why question him?

God created us with curious & inquisitive nature. It is within us to ask, seek, knock. I will never stop asking and I have found peace in God and continuously through direct experience am privy to more and more of his transcendent Beingness.

The Bible tells us that God's thoughts are not our thoughts and that we would never understand them as humans.

That's OT. In NT we're told to put on the Mind of Christ, God, Spirit. We are able to share in, and experience in God's inherent nature. He's already Omnipresent and everywhere at once.
"f I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there! If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me. Psalm 139:8-10"

These chapters also prove that Job did not exist as a spirit before he was placed on earth in a humanly body.

Not to me. To me, basically God is saying, what your asking right now is way beyond your understanding, so for now let it go. Let's look at Job for a sec. He was a farmer, husband, and father. His days were extremely busy dealing with those roles and there was not enough time to be a Monk, where those questions can be revealed deep within and over time.

Look at Luke 10:38-42. The Martha & Mary Story. Martha running around and working on preparations, busy, worried, while Mary drops everything to sit at the Lord's feet. Mary chooses the better according to the Lord. In Job, he is like Martha busy with all those roles.

As far as the verses you posted in Romans, chapter 9, these verses only prove that God had used select people to carry out his plan/will in order to spread the gospel of the kingdom and how it fits in with the bigger plan.

Everyone is select for dif tasks. There is more to study than just the Bible. You're missing out on HUGE revelations by those who follow in Jesus footsteps, live in the desert, reach Union through the Spirit, and their words are also inspired through the Spirit. They give us so much insight into psychology, ego, tips/tricks to further your relationship.

By the way you never mentioned your denomination. Are you scared?

First of all, the appearance of God at 100% would kill everyone on the spot.

And you know this how? Didn't you quote this earlier?:

The Bible tells us that God's thoughts are not our thoughts and that we would never understand them as humans.

Which I tempered that by showing that Job is OT and in NT we are called to put on the Mind of Christ/God/Spirit.

Also Jesus was One with the Father, and was not killed..

You also did not answer an earlier question, which everyone should wonder about and ask themselves. (Hypothetical) If you were God, and knew only the people who come to you through Christ will be saved, while the majority of Humans in existence are going to eternal hell, would you still create existence?

If I knew the majority are doomed, then I'm not creating existence. It would not be worth it

On top of this, let's breath these Spirits into Human bodies, bodies which will cause them to lust, sin, with ego's that will be in ignorance also causing them to sin and be against God, and the majority (because of this bias by the ego and body) will not choose Christ and will go to hell for eternity.....

.....is there not something wrong with this picture?

Early in my Christianity, when I would cry & repent for my sins, I would literally tell myself & God, that it would be better for myself to never have existed, that way there would be no way for me to sin against God, and instead here I am existing, wishing (because f my transgressions) that I would never have been born. Do you not see the psychological scars and dilemma's that the Church and man's interpretation causes.

This is the whole reason for Priests molesting kids. We're taught not to lust (which the body naturally does), and then we repress the Lust, which eventually comes out like a beast, destroying in it's wrath all reason, and justifying all sorts of lust based acts. All because western Christianity lacks psychological understanding and says, "just pray about it". Sometimes God works through logic/psychology

reply to post by dominicus

Early in my Christianity, when I would cry & repent for my sins, I would literally tell myself & God, that it would be better for myself to never have existed, that way there would be no way for me to sin against God, and instead here I am existing, wishing (because f my transgressions) that I would never have been born. Do you not see the psychological scars and dilemma's that the Church and man's interpretation causes.

What does the Church have to do with this? These aren't scars the church left these are scars you left on yourself for not believing that you would be forgiven. The Bible says that once you've repented, you're forgiven, so why didn't you take that to heart? Did you not have faith?

reply to post by dominicus

By the way you never mentioned your denomination. Are you scared?

I consider myself to be a fundamentalist Christian with no particular denomination.

reply to post by Deetermined

I consider myself to be a fundamentalist Christian with no particular denomination.

So you believe the earth is 6,000 years old?

reply to post by dominicus

You sound to be all head based dogma, and no heart transforming Holy Spirit experience based transcendence.

Do you really think that I would be as strong in my faith as I am without being transformed by the Holy Spirit myself?

I've had my own spiritual experiences, but not by the same methods that you use.

By the way, I don't support these methods of meditation, but you might want to take a look at this thread to help you decipher spirits if need be.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by AfterInfinity


So you believe the earth is 6,000 years old?

I don't recall the Bible telling us how old the earth was at the time that it was dark and void and filled with water.

reply to post by Deetermined

What does the Church have to do with this? These aren't scars the church left these are scars you left on yourself for not believing that you would be forgiven. The Bible says that once you've repented, you're forgiven, so why didn't you take that to heart? Did you not have faith?

Well it sure says alot about a person when you see them judging the ways in which you repent

1. It was a true deep soulful heart based repentance. We have various sources of others(past saints & mystics) who have also repented for long periods of time after experiencing aspects of God. It was after I got the Spirit that I repented for a long tear filled time, until I was devoid of anymore tears. After experiencing the Holiness, awesomeness, transcendence of God, was the result of this kind of repentance.

Furthermore, I have seen the cycles in the Churches of Sinning, saying sorry, Jesus covered are sins so "I'm good," back to Church, come Monday sin again, say sorry, etc etc ...there was no mention of understanding the sin process and the psychology of it and what causes us to sin. The West lacks understanding.

Fortunately, for me I have found in E. O. and the Desert Fathers, vast volumes on the causes and rooting out of what causes us to sin and it is surprisingly also similar to what Buddhism and various Greek philosophies, Stoicism, amongst many others discuss as the cause of SIn (Body and Ego and what that all consists of and mastering, transcending that)

I consider myself to be a fundamentalist Christian with no particular denomination.

I figured you were a fundy. That pretty much says it all right there. Pharisees and Saducees were also Fundies when Christ was here, and look how they treated him.

Interestingly, when I got the Spirit, I got treated in similar ways to what Jesus did when he was here. My Evangelical/Fundy brothers rejected me and no longer wanted me around them, called me a heretic (like Jesus was called), told me I'm going to hell (while the whole time I had nothing but Love for them, and man other things, while the whole time a scripturally supported my Holy Spirit experience.

That's all you had to say, that you're a fundie. Now I completely understand that you perspective is based entirely on literal dogma. Just want you to know that I know the real you and I Love you. I would literally give my arms, legs, and my own life for you to be able to experience and Love, ecstasy, and transformation within that comes from the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Interestingly, there are accounts of people receiving the Holy Spirit in Gnosticism, Mormonism, Southern Baptists, Catholics, E.O. (has alot of it and basis it's entire view on it). It makes One wonder whether God/Jesus/Spirit is looking at the heart, and not what denomination you belong to or what you believe.

reply to post by Deetermined


Everything has a source. Where did your "God" come from?

reply to post by dominicus

It makes One wonder whether God/Jesus/Spirit is looking at the heart, and not what denomination you belong to or what you believe.

That's what it boils down to and there's no denying that your heart is in the right place.

Even though I consider myself a fundamentalist, your story about your Evangelical brothers made me cringe. Even I spent a couple of years studying New Age Christianity before I turned away from it. This is when I realized how easy it was to be deceived in even the slightest of ways. Everything works itself out.

God Bless You.

reply to post by Deetermined


Why did you turn away from it?

reply to post by dominicus

Why do you still call yourself a Christian and what is the nature of Jesus Christ for you? Would you describe it as a relationship?