The subjective.

Qualities and adjectives are all subjective. They are all wholly dependent on relative observations. What is subjective cannot be absolute.

If there were an absolute perspective, the dualities and the full range of possible qualities and adjectives would all be experienced simultaneously. As far as I know, no such perspective exists.

Big and small. Hot and cold. Good and bad. Beautiful and ugly. Fast and slow. Smart and dumb. Meaningful and meaningless. And many many more ideas. None of these are absolute. If it is not absolute, it is ultimately untrue.

The human lives a human life. The human life is colored by qualities, adjectives, and opinions, all of which amount to falsehoods. So what happens when you try to stop seeing these subjective things?

reply to post by smithjustinb


Suppose you share a dream with another person. Suppose you both have perfect recall of it. Is that dream subjective or objective?

Originally posted by smithjustinb


The human lives a human life. The human life is colored by qualities, adjectives, and opinions, all of which amount to falsehoods. So what happens when you try to stop seeing these subjective things?

What is a human? A human is an animal that searches for food, shelter, and ways to reproduce. Human animals travel in tribes that claim territory as their own, and we either chase out or kill other animals that we don't accept on our territory. Some creatures use fancy feathers and bright colors to attract a mate. The human uses words and body language.

Humans have intelligence, which is the equivalent of bird wings, turtle shells, and bear claws. We use our intelligence to take flight from danger, to build homes that protect us from predators and bad weather, and to make weapons to attack that which may do us harm.

Every idea mankind has is only to ensure its survival. Some ideas (such as gods and demons) come from fear of the unknown, but this still works to bring people together in order to incite marriage and reproduction. Other ideas, such as trying to understand the universe is our attempt to figure out a way to spread humanity throughout the cosmos, much like how every other living thing multiplies and would cover the entire earth if not for the obstacles of predators and disease.

We are 100% part of the animal kingdom - nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by BlueMule
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Suppose you share a dream with another person. Suppose you both have perfect recall of it. Is that dream subjective or objective?

edit on 15-12-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Pretty sure that's called 'coincidental'.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
So what happens when you try to stop seeing these subjective things?

I don't think you do. I'm not sure one can remove his own perspective and stop noticing qualities (similarities and differences) between things that penetrate this perspective. I think it would be dangerous to do so. The only way one can achieve this is if he were without sense organs or dead.

I agree there is no objective perspective because perpective, as far as I know, only pertains to the individuals and not an entire species or group of individuals.

reply to post by jiggerj


But the concept of what it means to be an animal is always an opinion. Yeah you have noticed that human action is survival based, but for all you know, survival might be a smaller concept of a bigger concept that we have yet to discover.

Survival seems to be the motivation for all activities and indeed all situations, but why is the preservation of life so important? Is it because our existence is necessary and inevitable? If so, why?

Maybe the universe has an absolute quality and without observation, there would be resistance in an otherwise free State. If there is an absolute quality, then an individualized perception would be able to approach an absolute perspective, no? So is there an absolute quality of all matter? Kundalini?

reply to post by smithjustinb

But the concept of what it means to be an animal is always an opinion. Yeah you have noticed that human action is survival based, but for all you know, survival might be a smaller concept of a bigger concept that we have yet to discover.

That's a very good point. It made me ask the question: Why is nature so hellbent on creating more and more life, and through evolution, ensuring the survival of life through adaptation?

See, this is the awe factor I spoke about in another thread. Just now I could easily have jumped to the assumption of an Intelligent Designer because the questions we ask can be so overwhelming as to be believed as something beyond natural. We need to rein in the awe factor and first search for the most logical (and hopefully testable) answers.

subjectivity isn't bad, it's when you shared your feelings about a thing when it became subjective. We've got to stand open for the two worlds, which we probably all do often. Subjectivity is for bonding, people. That way you learn what one is about and you can choose to allie or alienate from one another. hmn, being forgiving. What has been black in my heart all the time. Thx for letting me share. Now you know I tried for better. Let's read the thread.

reply to post by smithjustinb


You'll reach awareness, sir smithjstinb. You don't know what it is when you have it, I have to say, it's like I took a drop of the juice, and it's awesome. It's a freedom of thought where all subjects are looked upon with no withholdings in interpretation. Like expanding the mind that large it encompasses the complete subject and all judgements of things are experienced. Great, just great, thank you!

A relative universe- that rings my bell.
Even when we speak of the objective reality all humans percieve, we're just choosing things that are relative to a group of which we all are- do other animals perceieve the same?


I have a dog that likes to sit and watch the tv with me, and I see him following the movement with his eyes, but this is the first dog I've had who did that. Others at most would react to sounds coming from it, but not seem to recognize images on the screen which correspond.

So the other night, watching my dog watch a film, I wondered- the more different beings perceieve the same, the less differences there are between them. This happens to be the most intelligent dog I have had up to now, showig amazing capacity to comprehend and interact effectively in our training work..

But then I realize my judgement of what or who is intelligent is al based on how much they see and can think like me! Not very objective....

Originally posted by Bluesma

But then I realize my judgement of what or who is intelligent is al based on how much they see and can think like me! Not very objective....

edit on 16-12-2012 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

Exactly. I believe we have a dormant ability to communicate in undiscovered ways with all life forms. But we have to see it from a less subjective perspective. Humans generally see their intelligence as superior to all other species. So there's too much emphasis in human thought that is put on human intelligence as being the standard indicator of value, or whatever. We measure our superiority to them according to our ability to obtain and use knowledge. But I don't see it that way. I see the wasp and the trout and human as having an equal value to an absolute standard of which I do not fully comprehend.

It is by recognizing the absolute standard of being that we can communicate with all life forms in a way which we currently have no words for and indeed, the type of communication is non verbal. When I have been able to do this, there is an acknowledgement from both entities of a common ground as if to say without words, "I haven't seen you before, but I see you now". The crazy part is, I can tell that we are both experiencing the same thing from each other. It is like an acknowledgement of a connected soul and the realization that this soul is divine and transcendent in nature.

reply to post by smithjustinb


If experiences can never been to taken to be true because the intepretation of reality is based on the relative position of observation then conversely they cant be false either. There is no such thing as true or false.

And so what happens when you try to stop seeing these subjective things? If we stop interpreting we see forms in front of us that move and change. Nothing is static in reality everything is in motion.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Nothing is static in reality everything is in motion.

This quote alone says it all.

Indeed - 'nothing' is static. 'Things' are in motion.
Find the stable out of which the manifestation forms.
Jesus Christ was born out of the stable.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Just because you can't experience the truth doesn't mean there isn't one. It's not something you experience, it's something you are.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Jesus was born out of the stable.

You believe in Jesus Itsnowagain?

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Jesus was born out of the stable.

You believe in Jesus Itsnowagain?

Christ is this moment of presence - he is the form that is formed from the father. Christ is the light of consciousness.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Just because you can't experience the truth doesn't mean there isn't one. It's not something you experience, it's something you are.

The human condition may limit our ability to experience an absolute truth. You say its something you are, please elaborate?

reply to post by AthlonSavage


The individual can't experience the all, but it is the all.

reply to post by smithjustinb

The individual can't experience the all, but it is the all.

That statement can make sense if a person accepts they are the focal point, ( the true reference) for observing reality.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

The individual can't experience the all, but it is the all.

That statement can make sense if a person accepts they are the focal point, ( the true reference) for observing reality.

The person is a transient thing that is being used as a vessel of experience by something that the person cannot fully comprehend. But that which is using us is our true nature. In my belief.