Europeans and The US Constitution

reply to post by milominderbinder


scratch that....

MADBALL LYRICS

"Liberty Or Death"


Yes I am free, physically
Mentally I hurt for my family
Those I don't know, but they know me
From pictures, grandmother (Esperanza) told them to love me
As I do them, I hold them close to my heart
So close, yet so damn far
Liberty, liberty or death
To the dictator, the perpetrator
Liberty, liberty or death
To your communism, fascism
Yes I know you, my selfish foe
Your toughness, your resolve is undeniable
But your cause, so filled with flaws
Has taken the life out of our people
Time to face them
Liberty, liberty or death
To the dictator, the perpetrator
Liberty, liberty or death
To your communism, fascism
Liberty, liberty or death
To the violator, the instigator
Liberty, liberty or death
To the traitor
Soon you will face them
The souls of the people
That you betrayed
Your people that you enslaved
Your revolution never had them in mind
Fight this oppression until you die
We'll fight with aggression for their lives
You will die in vain
Your death will bring forth liberty

I don't argue the dumbass "lets revolt" idea by the way. I am an advocate of gun ownership for personal protection. I am not a tea party Pawn. I don´t know why you keep ASSUMING things about us "dumb" Americans...

It's not an assumption. We are a stupid nation of ignorant fools. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

For the record...I am actually a proponent of the right to bare SOME arms. I DON'T THINK the Second Amendment gives us all the right to bare NUCLEAR ARMS or BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS. Likewise...I just don't see any lawful reason why a "law abiding" individual needs a firearm which can hold more than six rounds at a time and does not have a replaceable clip.

Let's face...if the prick had to actually RELOAD a revolver or two we would have a significantly lower death toll...wouldn't we?

Six shots is MORE THAN ENOUGH to defend yourself from a burglar, go hunting, or even take with you backpacking in our beautiful grizzly bear, mountain lion, and wolf -infested countryside. The only argument for MORE than it is to fight off our increasingly spooky cops and/or Federal Government...but this is a non-issue since it's Treason, terrorism, and no gun owner has done such things in the last 50 years of ever-increasingly tyrannical government rule.

So...isn't a BIG PART of the reason we set record gun sales every other day for the last two years in this country BECAUSE we now have drones overhead and police officers deploying chemical weapons on civilians? And isn't a big part of the reason we started militarizing our local police departments all the way back in the '80's because the street gangs had machine guns?

Wouldn't we be BEST SERVED by an OVERALL DEMILITARIZATION of our civilization is which The Peasants agree to stop threatening the Federal Government with armed insurrection AND the cops stopped using chemical weapons, tanks, and electroshock torture devices on us?

If we speak about this REASONABLY and in an EDUCATED MANNER I think such a thing might be possible.

Unfortunately, all I see is a whole lot of Americans screaming bloody murder about documents that they neither read NOR understand and quite literally saying they will go on a murderous rampage and/or attempt to overthrow the government or "secede" (hahahahha) from the Union if anyone attempts to "take their guns".

This is LUNACY.

There are legitimate uses and needs for guns in the US that don't exist in some other places (such as certain parts of Europe)...but blind allegiance to misunderstood interpretation of the Second Amendment is only going to get your guns taken away AND the police outfitted with laser cannons at the same time.

reply to post by milominderbinder


I think most people hold those views. Small arms, nothing military grade. I wouldn't even stipulate design characteristics beyond what is in place now. Clip, no clip, I don't care. Caliber, and permits. Most legal guns aren't used in crime. That is not the problem.

I also see the emerging socialist and even more so confused Marxists out there as a threat of instigated fantasy revolution beyond tea party people. They actually have a history. Socialists are usually more moderate and can offer common ground( no pun intended) where you can at least meet half way.

The vast majority of Americans aren't radical anything's, just fall in the middle so they can just live their lives.

I am not talking come election season. Year round, we are just people like anyone else. Not brighter, or dumber.

I laugh at the comparisons of the US and Europe. From a world perspective, we are almost identical. Really think about it. There is little real difference. You can say mass. I am living it. If I was Asian, or from elsewhere, I would laugh at the comparisons. There is a "perceived" difference but none really. Minor differences is all.

EDIT:
The US has awesome people. We are not a country of ignorant fools beyond that we might be a species of ignorant fools. I love us.

Just want to thank Milo and zed you have taught this Brit alot and that's all we need, to be taught about the constitution, that's all I asked cheers dudes.
(Sends a pint over to each of you with some pork scratchings and a pickled egg)

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Just want to thank Milo and zed

you have taught this Brit alot and that's all we need, to be taught about the constitution,

LOL. I'm sure all of your fellow Brits agree...if only they could here the Americans talk about the Constitution some more...LOL.
that's all I asked cheers dudes.
(Sends a pint over to each of you with some pork scratchings and a pickled egg)
Awww...you shouldn't have, Mate.

...Is that an Ol' Speckled 'un or a Courage I see there???

reply to post by milominderbinder


Nah I will send you a Roosters Yankee brewed with american hops (I ran a CAMRA pub of the year 2 years running) best pint on the planet.
www.roosters.co.uk...

Hhhmm gonna make a beer thread.

we fight a war to break away from europe then wonder why they criticize. they were not born raised or live here and therefore do not understand why we LOVE our constitution. its not just some law, it is the fundamental groundwork of our republic, america IS NOT america without the constitution. amend if you ABSOLUTLY CANT FIND ANOTHER WAY, but never will it be done away with OR CHANGED because snobby europens whine about it. the rest of the world flocks HERE in mass. yes immagration is up in european countries but we are still the place many people go for better chances. and i know this has been said and played out, but many of you snobby europeans owe your existance to our grandfathers, so how about insted of totally useless name calling and # talking americans, you give respectful constructive criticism. or agree to disagree. we LOVE our country we are proud and very lucky, hate on national pride all you want, its literally a waste of breath. europeans have # talked and disrespected average americans (like we are the ONLY ones dropping the bombs or like all of us are ignorant southerners) that NO american gives a damn about snobish european opinions. how about you guys stop acting better than the rest of the world and criticising laws YOU CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT, and criticize your own countries and your own cultures and your own lives. there is nothing, NOTHING you can do about the constitution except whine. sry for typos and spelling, typing 1 letter at a time on xbox

reply to post by primoaurelius


that was a response to posts on the first page so any non snobish eruopeans or friendly friends, not ment for you.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Nah I will send you a Roosters Yankee

brewed with american hops (I ran a CAMRA pub of the year 2 years running) best pint on the planet.
www.roosters.co.uk...

Hhhmm gonna make a beer thread.

edit on 17-12-2012 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

Roosters Yankee, huh?

I gotta see if I can get my hands on one of those one of these days.

Yeah....start up a beer thread! I'll toss my two cents in.

Ahem. You do realise that, in part, the American constitution is based on the Magna Carta?

Just saying.

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

I think most people hold those views. Small arms, nothing military grade. I wouldn't even stipulate design characteristics beyond what is in place now. Clip, no clip, I don't care. Caliber, and permits. Most legal guns aren't used in crime. That is not the problem.

Actually...IT DOES MATTER. You would certainly think it "mattered" if you had one of those 6 year old's that was shot at point blank range because two mentally ill people were allowed to buy high-capacity assault weapons. I'm POSITIVE you would think it "matters" if you were burying YOUR CHILD the week before Christmas.

I also see the emerging socialist and even more so confused Marxists out there as a threat of instigated fantasy revolution beyond tea party people. They actually have a history. Socialists are usually more moderate and can offer common ground( no pun intended) where you can at least meet half way.

There are no "marxists", "socialists", or "commies" coming to get you. There are only two Communist countries left on the face of planet earth...Cuba and N. Korea...both of which are largely jokes.

What POSSIBLE rationale can we have as a civilization for requiring EYE EXAMS when we renew our drivers licenses to make sure we are still fit to be behind the wheel of a vehicle...but not EVER checking it to see if that nice lady who bought the combat rifle and the and all extra clips has gone completely nutso and is so incredibly irresponsible that she leaves this very deadly weapon out for her mentally ill son to pick up whenever he sees fit. NOBODY has seen the inside of her house in FIFTEEN YEARS!! Isn't an AR-15 assault rifle at least as dangerous as Honda Civic?

I'm ALL ABOUT personal privacy and a man's "home is his castle" and whatnot...but is it unreasonable to do an annual safety check in homes with AR-15's or UZI's to make sure that they at least HAVE a proper gun safe and whatnot? Hell...even once every FOUR YEARS???

Do we really want a bunch of people with early onset dementia or alzheimers being armed to the freakin' teeth for trick or treating on Halloween?

We may not be able to "childproof" the world...but that doesn't mean that we should store the razor blades in the crib...right?

And while we are engaged in the national discussion...let's stop and re-evaluate if its REALLY OK to just send 250,000 volts through whomever's body upon the whim of the police officer...even when no crime was committed, charges filed, or arrest made.

This seems much more productive than the incessant whining about phantom "marxists" and a stubborn refusal to admit that Mutually Assured Destruction is probably not the wisest strategy to implement in our Kindergarten classes.

Originally posted by Alekto
Ahem. You do realise that, in part, the American constitution is based on the Magna Carta?

Just saying.

No...most Americans have no idea. They think they "invented" it...just like this idiotic mantra that's been circulating of "We aren't a Democracy...We're a Republic" when the truth of the matter is that we have ALWAYS been a Democratically INSPIRED Republic, which unlike the strict republic of the Roman Empire actually allows it's Peasants to VOTE FOR it's legislative and ruling bodies.

reply to post by milominderbinder


It has almost NOTHING in common with the magna carta. You guys need to think critically instead of parroting things ↑↑↑↑↑ BAD HISTORY TEACHERS ↑↑↑↑↑ tell you. They can be morons you know.

actually it is based on the Greek system of law, and the Roman republic, ...so no.

you have no idea. But really we are all talking out of our ass. You were not there and are just parroting things someone told you.

The magna carta was insignificant to the colonies and their reason for seceding. The reason was primarily over taxation without representation that led to the revolt. Then following that we made an elaborate system of REPRESENTATION....we did not establish LIMITS to royal power, we abolished it all together....BIG DIFF

why do some Europeans have to be so snobbish. You current constitutions are based on ours by way of the marshal plan...so what?

The Magna carta was a limiting document on Royal power. The constitution is a contractual agreement for the establishment of the federal government by way of EQUAL REPRESENTATION. It was made in large part to a major falling through of the articles of confederation due to economic factors.


EDIT:
I have glossed over the profile of this milo guy...wow. Talk about vomit. Yeah, he doesnt represent even half of this country. Wow. Like talking to a priest about religion. Only one side and one story. He really should consider moving. He cant be happy in the US. Kind of sick.

We have the right to overthrow our government should the necessity arise.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


The need arose years ago. Time to put up or shut up.

reply to post by Morg234


no, no violent revolution. We have a beautiful system of government we need to re-validate again and use. Bitching about it at home and edging it on from over seas wont do anything considering that the EU should have its own revolution then if it wants to preserve its quality of life and freedoms.

We are actually in the same boat under the same bad crew.

We need to educate ourselves and use our minds to take back what is ours. By using the systems of law WE CREATED. Not by using weapons but rather by education and information.

Those who have already given up need not participate. Just keep moaning. You wont like either victor anyways.

EDIT:
I am not even saying "formal" education. That is full of questionable characters. The information is everywhere. We need to become our own teachers like we need to become our own priests. Nothing from the "established" authorities will do. They have all sold out for the most part and have become part of the problem they poison themselves with.

reply to post by freedomSlave

How many times have america or americans stuck their nose and business where it never belonged

Twice we saved Europe's butt from the Krauts. Once we saved everone's butt around tha Pacific from the Japs. Do you really think we should sit the next one out?

reply to post by LifeIsPeculiar


Please It was many nations joining together to fight the nazis, we all lost people and I thank everyone who fought but do not disrespect them by saying you saved us, you helped as did others.

reply to post by MrInquisitive

So no, don't buy your big, bad patriotic 2nd Amendment claims

His understanding is correct. If you were to read the correspondance between the gentlemen who wrote the Constitution, you would see that they were, indeed, comitted to preventing the rise of tyranny. If you are interested, the "Federalist Papers" and "Anti-Federalist Papers" is a good place to start. The Founders wanted a government that was "of the People" and "by the People". The Constitution is the document that founds a government that is subject to The People's will. The Bill of Rights prohibits the government from infringing upon those explicitly enumerated rights. The Constitution DOES NOT grant any rights. Those rights are considered to be Natural Rights, endowed by the Creator.

Its pretty clear really. America has two choices. Either it takes whatever critisicsm there is of it on the chin like a grown up or it regresses into isolation from the rest of the World.
Sorry but "us outsiders" are still shaking their collective heads at yet another massacre and the complete inertia of a Government that feels compelled to do the right thing but cannot because several million Americans will no longer get sexual gratification out of polishing and carressing their assault rifles/handguns ( probably grenades too, just incase of WW3 )
Its clearly a ridiculous scenario isnt it? How can a democratic Western "Super Power" take up the mantle of policing Planet Earth on the pretext of keeping us all safe from all those madmen leaders out there who want to kill us when it actually does bog all about allowing people, who really shouldnt be allowed anywhere near weapons that can kill dozens in seconds, to be able to buy guns in Wallmart with their beans?
You are a nation of complete contradiction. You preach peace throughout the world while you watch your own society degenerate into some sort of civil war.
There is more talk about arming students and teachers than there is about disarming the majority. Crazy crazy.
This time next year British TV will have Louis Theroux out somewhere in Kansas doing a documentary on parents teaching their preschool children how to use guns. You can bet on it.
The whole point of this? If you want to run around like Superman fighting World crime and saving us all, you have to expect the rest of us to examine your flaws as and when we find them.
Thats the deal, accept it or withdraw from the rest of the World.

reply to post by LFN69

those evils you describe are a necessary part of the western world. We aren't the richest for our business savvy and great products bub... You can bet that if the US goes to war it is because rich people all over the planet agreed to it over clicquot mimosas some time before.

The propaganda is not OUR reasons for doing things. It is the white wash given. We don't like going to die any more than you guys like seeing us do so.

As far as stereotyping us as sadomasochistic leather bound barbarians masturbating with our guns, well no.

Like the samurai sword to Japanese culture, our guns are part of our cultural identity. The violent crime committed with guns in the US is by and large done with illegal guns by unregistered and un licensed gun owners.

You have to be american to understand why we have them and keep them. It is what it is. It works for us like massive social spending and insane workers rights works for you. We do fine without it. To each his own.