Surprising Encounter Of Peculiar Nature

Originally posted by alex45
reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice

 

This is a really freaking experience. Are you still afraid today?

It was the first ever experience where it was so physical wise right up in my face.

Not really fear tends to wear off after first 2-3 years of experiencing such things, just like Deja Vu as well if you have it often that adrenaline rush and sensation of the unknown no longer catches your attention.

You tend to just know when that stuff is happening and basically observe it over all during the events taking place.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, suffering leads to the dark side. I think that is what Yoda said. Anyway most of the time you get that Meh ! feeling when you know stuff is happening

Not to sound tough or anything but the first couple years I was nearly crapping myself during these experiences

Originally posted by Brighter

Actually, the real issue is that you're incapable of providing any kind of rational justification for your beliefs. I realize that that's frustrating to come to terms with, but there's no need to lash out with ad hominem attacks. Everyone has to come to terms with this kind of thing eventually, some just weather it more gracefully than others.

In the end, it's pretty clear to anyone that you don't have a rational response to my objection. It's really not a difficult concept at all to grasp, so one can only assume that it's due to a psychological block, as you appear to be heavily invested in the canned explanations of 'popular skepticism'. And as with most consumers, they don't really understand how the product works - they just consume it.

But it's not a reasonable explanation, and that's exactly what I've been describing in some very unambiguous terms. What it is is a superficial explanation that doesn't carry the conceptual leverage to demonstrate that what is being experienced is not real.

This is because you haven't moved the conversation forward. I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how your proposed sleep apnea explanation possesses the necessary conceptual apparatus to prove that what is subjectively experienced is not real. And if it doesn't, we'd all appreciate an independent argument for why this is so. You're the one claiming that it's a sufficient explanation. So prove it.

And try to avoid moving the the goal posts by saying something like: "But the opposite explanation isn't plausible." I'm asking you to independently defend your explanation, and this should be simple, as you seem to have an enormous amount of confidence in it. So the floor's all yours.

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8
Interesting response. You continue to be telling with your defensive, uptight postings. Maybe relax and take it down a notch? That actually would be the "graceful" way to handle it, don't you think?

This is really amusing. It's interesting how whenever someone realizes that they don't have a point to make, that they resort to personal attacks in order to draw attention away from this fact.

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8
Anyway... You seem to be a little confused and addressing me as you were Druscilla. Remember, I'm not the one with the definitive answer of sleep paralysis, just the one commenting on and finding your obvious contempt, strange.

No, actually I'm not confused at all. Let me refresh your memory though:

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8
How is this an "elementary error" to assume Sleep Paralysis as a good possiblity when the entire happening was within the time frame of sleeping?

If this isn't an endorsement of the sleep apnea hypothesis, I don't know what is.

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8
You conveniently try to squirm your way out of giving any explanation, by, giving me the "floor" to defend my stance on sleep paralysis.

That's because this never had anything to do with my explanation, as I never gave one. You did. You were actually the one who made the statement that clearly favored the sleep apnea hypothesis. And, as a general rule in science, if you make the claim, you'd better be able to back it up. In the real world, you can't make public claims and not be expected to be asked to back them up with a rational argument. And so I did just that. I asked for a rational argument to defend your stance, and you haven't made the slightest attempt at one. On the other hand, you have side-tracked the conversation and lashed out with several ad hominem attacks.

So how about instead of consistently bringing this conversation to superficial levels, you either offer a rational argument, or just admit that you don't have one?

reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice


first, you're experience in bed was an astral projection , when you broke free and looked out the window or w.e, i bet you didn't even bother to look behind and realize that "you" where still lying in bed, your physical body that is

second, from somewhat reliable source, i red about different species of aliens, supposedly there's different kinds of "grays" and the skinny 2m tall ones, are actually one of the bad ones, abducting, experimenting, killing, not giving a # about you, and i think it even said they project fear, but maybe i got my memories mixed up with that last bit

thirdly there's the idea of inter-dimensional beings, or capabilities, in other words, the astral projection allowed you to see him, otherwise you could be standing right next to him and you wouldn't even know it...yes..that means even right now, and the fact that your senses are somewhat different and more in-tuned with the world around you, is what allowed you to sense that thing so well, what felt was his essence itself, his malice, his intentions, his thoughts, his feelings, an interpretation of what he poses to you...a threat.

lastly, idk about that bang of yours, but um, maybe it was some sort of gone that does something to your energy field(of the astral body) and forces you to go back, but im just speculating now

reply to post by Brighter


When you prove facility for providing alternative data sets contrary to the Psycho-Social model supported as paradigm in detailing a relevant and clinically accepted classification of a presenting sleep disorder, You may have something to say.

Your argument, otherwise. lacks a single leg to stand on.
Provide some acceptable data sets giving indication that sleep paralysis is not sleep paralysis, and/or OPs description can't be attributable to Sleep paralysis, then you may have something to say.

The current model classifies experiences similar in description to OP as entirely attributable to Sleep Paralysis.

This question has been on my mind lately.

Has anyone realized that whenever a person experiences something super natural they seem to pick up on a high pitched tone ?

Even thought the person has no neurological or hearing problems of any sorts, which makes a very interesting debate as to why does this phenomenon occur so much during supernatural experiences.

Just thought I would bring it up

reply to post by StrawHatBrian


Actually what he experienced was an ET abduction attempt. And a rather typical one. The fear is obviously injected into us to "keep them safe".

Some occur astrally, they pull you, but many occur physically, because we're lab rats to a certain group of them.

I know he perceived it ending. That doesnt make it so, but they accommodated his wish for this to be so.

Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice

 

It would project fear because fear is all it has to keep a physically stronger and more aggressive being like a human from beating it to death.

With that said your encounter does sound more like a case of sleep paralysis. The buzzing noise, and a generic abduction scenario give it away in my opinion.

If it was an abduction attempt you should have let anger take over. If there was a human in your house trying to abduct you, that person would probably be dead or hospitalized now, why should an alien be any different?

Let your anger guide you young Skywalker.

beautiful post and absolutely correct....at ;least about the point of letting anger take over

i am always surprised on this sub forum, the one that millions find when they google aliens and ufos, that the underlying theme is always sleep paralysis. a funny thing, that,,,and if there was a lot of time and i had nothing better to do, i would cite a ton of references which would render that concept, in these cases, absolutely false

however, since time may be short, this poster's advice is very solid--namely, anything, and i mean anything that comes into your home, your car, while you are just chilling in the woods and bothers you--well, how would you react to a tweaker with a gun? in this country, and many others, we have freedom that most do not always realize--that is, freedom from fear

now, again, in this country(cause i am not too sure about some others)we were raised with that knowledge--that we have a RIGHT to not be afraid.

therefore, something is coming into my house? bothering me or the granddaughter in the middle of the night and were too stupid to totally knock me out? i have a lovely hammer and an even better all purpose wrench for that purpose..

anything that makes me you feel afraid--it is never to be trusted imo

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice

 

What you describe is typical Sleep Paralysis.
You can read my own experience with sleep paralysis HERE among feedback from others.
You can also ATS search "sleep paralysis" and find a number of accounts describing seeing 'beings', or feeling a presence.
The buzzing, paralysis, and fear are very common elements to sleep paralysis.

Additionally, there's this interesting paper you may want to read:
Transcultural Psychiatry - Sleep Paralysis, Sexual Abuse, and Space Alien Abduction

You can, of course, ignore the body of material that's examined this phenomenon in favor of a more magical explanation, but, to each their own.

Are those 00 plugs?

Sorry for the semi-off topic post.


Sleep paralysis has a lot of unknowns going on there. Sure there are neurochemical and psychological experiential factors that can be used to describe the events, but those are only pieces of the full puzzle, no? We need some full on spectrum analysis!

And yes, It is indeed much easier to feel confident in ones assertions, when one feels that their assertions abide and contain the common, modern day accepted theories as facts, with regard to these phenomenon.

Fascinating post OP thanks for sharing

I think the fear projection could also be a way to control the person overall or maybe just keep them in a state of confusion that comes along with being afraid. I also wanted to point out that Sleep Apnea and Sleep paralysis are completely different medical conditions. I suffer from Sleep Apnea myself which is when you physically stop breathing during your sleep cycle. A lot of the time its wakes me up and I find myself gasping for a breath but there is nothing even remotely close to Sleep Paralysis happening you just wake up trying to catch a breath, which can still be pretty strange but I can only imagine the horrific experience that comes with Paralysis.

reply to post by Brighter



Here's the bottom line. When you step back and look at the story, only a few answers come to my mind as to what could have happened. Dream - nightmare, sleep paralysis or an actual real event. Of those choices, I rule out an actual real event as a possibility because there has never been a shred of evidence to support alien visitation in any capacity. That leaves the others, which when you combine this with the fact he/she was asleep, seems logical.

Now, you keep asking me for the argument to defend my stance on sleep paralysis in regards to this story. I won't quote scientific data from the web to try and prove this point. What I can do is quickly relay what happened to me around 12 years ago when I visited family in Phoenix. In the middle of the day I was tired and went to rest in a spare bedroom. I was flat on my back and after about 20 minutes or so, being completely relaxed, I had a 'disconnected' feeling with my body. I felt fully awake and aware what was going on around me, but my body began to feel like it was lifting from the bed. Both my arms and legs were frozen and I couldn't move them. This feeling went on for what I thought to be 10 minutes or so. But, I don't actually know how long. When I got up a short time later, I felt rested as if I had been asleep for a while. Now, I know this episode was 100% created within my mind. No aliens, no ghosts, no outer influences or fantasy explanations. I can relate to the feelings stated by "The Magicians Apprentice" . The difference is, I experienced this during a short rest/nap. He experienced this at night during hours of sleep. So, I can see someone drifting from this state into dreams or nightmares which could conjure beings as the minds explanation for the previous feelings. Especially to a person with a certain mindset, being that of a member on a UFO/alien message board.

So to me, it's a completely logical possibility that this could be sleep paralysis combined into a dream or nightmare. Or simply a nightmare. Both Druscilla and I have experienced what was described by the OP, or at least something extremely similar. So we're speaking from a place of first-hand experience with an understanding of what happened to us wasn't something magical, nor was it a "real" event. All you've done is given an opinion about the overall diagnosis of sleep paralysis as an "elementary error". In no way have you effectively argued against Druscilla's point. Your opinion doesn't stand alone by it's own merit. Maybe to you, not to others. My continuing point to you is, if Druscilla's claim of sleep paralysis is such a wrong conclusion and you feel the need to jump in and attempt to discredit it, give us what you think as an equally plausible possibility to what happened.

I'll give a "magical" prediction that yet again, you'll attempt to weasel out of giving an answer. But, frankly at this point, I've grown tired of wasting my energy.

Originally posted by Druscilla
When you prove facility for providing alternative data sets contrary to the Psycho-Social model supported as paradigm in detailing a relevant and clinically accepted classification of a presenting sleep disorder, You may have something to say.

I wish there were a 'facepalm' icon. Let me try to explain a few things here.

If you make an assertion, an hypothesis, etc., then you are obliged to back it up with a rational argument, and should be prepared to respond to any reasonable requests for criticism. Yet even though you certainly seem to have convinced yourself of the sleep apnea hypothesis, any form of actual argument has been oddly absent.

Your sleep apnea explanation was shown to have an enormous conceptual shortcoming in explaining away the reality of this person's experience, yet you either 1) don't grasp the criticism or 2) grasp the criticism but can't formulate a response. Giving you the benefit of the doubt and ignoring 1), one can only assume that you're unable to formulate a proper defense of the conceptual foundations of the sleep apnea hypothesis, which doesn't surprise me, as it wasn't intended for such purposes to begin with, and all you've done so far really is copy and paste someone else's sleep apnea study without 1) understanding the theoretical ramifications of such a study and 2) providing the further necessary arguments to prove what you seem to think it proves, which would admittedly require some original thought and for which not many articles exist that you can conveniently copy and paste and consider the entire issue settled.

It's a simple category error to think such medical conditions work at the level of deep conceptual claims that would be required to do the work that you intend it to, yet most pseudo-skeptics, more concerned with defending a materialist view of reality (and without possessing the necessary tools to do so), continue to misrepresent and misinterpret evidence as being in their favor, in the same way that the serial 'believer' misinterprets every Youtube video to be of a genuine UFO.

This is all to say something that we all knew all along: That the pseudo-skeptic and true believer just sit on opposite poles of the same spectrum, sharing many of the same basic errors in thought and investigation, with the true skeptic at the center.

Originally posted by Druscilla
Your argument, otherwise. lacks a single leg to stand on.

As always, you're heavy on the assertions and short on the actual explanations. You seem to be of this habit of thinking that you've proven something when you actually haven't said anything of substance. In fact, all you've done in this post is to restate your original hypothesis while providing no defense of it.

Originally posted by Druscilla
Provide some acceptable data sets giving indication that sleep paralysis is not sleep paralysis, and/or OPs description can't be attributable to Sleep paralysis, then you may have something to say.

Here you've just assumed that your hypothesis is correct, without rationally defending it. You're forgetting that you're the one who's made the assertion, and therefore you must provide a rational defense of it. It's also a basic logical error to assume that, because there is insufficient data for one hypothesis, that some other hypothesis is automatically true.

Originally posted by Druscilla
The current model classifies experiences similar in description to OP as entirely attributable to Sleep Paralysis.

Again, you're just assuming that the model is intended to do something that it wasn't intended to do. In other words, you're misunderstanding the proper bounds of empirical science. Another category error.

And even assuming that sleep apnea can produce hallucinations of aliens, that doesn't prove that all experiences of aliens are hallucinations, in the same way that my dreaming of a hamburger doesn't imply that hamburgers aren't real.

reply to post by NarcolepticBuddha

I cannot adequately define "alien." I personally believe some of these 'aliens' are just some kind of spiritual misfits.

From my experiences of "contact", I have came up with one explanation of what "they" could be. These are just my random thoughts on the matter, one idea I have allowed my mind to entertain while trying to explain certain personal experiences.

The "being" I encountered did not seem to be projecting the fear, it was me who was projecting fear onto it. In my thread explaining the nature of this contact, I mentioned how the being would "leave" when my fear increased.

As I allowed my fear to subside the being would return.

I think it is possible our subconscious, whether individually or collectively, has "fear" engrained into it regarding these type of "things".

It is hard to say whether this is something past down from generation to generation, or if it is engrained by the media we enjoy watching on the subject of extraterrestrial life.

Of all the strange experiences I have had, my gut tells me it is my subconscious flowing into my conscious awareness.

When it started it had a "alien" feel to it, the more it happens though it feels more natural. It now feels like a self to "self" communication, rather than something alien to myself.

As a matter of fact, while typing the last sentence I experienced this form of communication. It still feels very strange, however my initial reaction is no longer fear, or doubting my own sanity.


[edit] I always just happen to bump into you

reply to post by Brighter


As always, you're heavy on the assertions and short on the actual explanations. You seem to be of this habit of thinking that you've proven something when you actually haven't said anything of substance. In fact, all you've done in this post is to restate your original hypothesis while providing no defense of it.

ie; ditto.

The premise stands.

You say it doesn't.
He said, she said.
You give no alternative explanation; only the equivalent of a puerile "is not" criticism.
It's entirely attributable to sleep paralysis.
You: "Is not"
Yet, I continue to assert it is. The onus is on you to topple, or provide alternative; neither of which you've done.

You make these adorably cute little proclamations, like royal decrees as if they're fact, while providing absolutely nothing to substantiate the vacuous illusion of substance you parade around as an argument in claiming nonexistent facts.

The premise stands.
Sleep paralysis.

I'll have a parrot available to repeat the above if you continue assertions with zero substantiation.
Provide counter-alternative supported by linked, cited, peer reviewed documentation.
Otherwise, as I've said before, and with similar colloquialism; you got zip.

Originally posted by Druscilla

The premise stands.
Sleep paralysis.

You keep making the same proclamation over and over again without providing any justification.

In any case, here's the bottom line: The fact that some people see grey aliens while dreaming doesn't prove the not-existence of grey aliens any more than people having vivid dreams of hamburgers proves the non-existence of hamburgers.

And furthermore, if one were to perform a sleep study whereby the participant reports that they saw a grey alien, and no grey alien was, say, recorded on video, even in that case, you couldn't conclude that there was no grey alien unless you provided a further argument for why an entity experienced subjectively is not real.

Now, obviously, I don't think that every time a person dreams of a grey alien that it's a real experience. I'm not even saying that people really are having real experiences in any of these cases. All I am saying is that none of the standard arguments typically offered against the non-reality of all of these experiences holds up to close scrutiny. And while sleep apnea may be able to explain some of these experiences, there is nothing about the sleep apnea explanation that proves that all such experiences are non-real.

The sleep apnea hypothesis is also extremely weak in that, in a significant percentage of abduction reports, the victim wasn't even sleeping - they were outside in a park or driving a car. In other words, they weren't tired at all, and certainly weren't about to go to bed. And not only that, but there are cases where multiple people that were together report being abducted at the same time, and they both report an eerily similar series of events.

So in conclusion, there is very little in the sleep apnea hypothesis that is convincing to someone looking at this objectively. To be convinced by it requires a significant amount of 'filling in' in order to make it work, in addition to ignoring all of the additional cases of abductions where the victims were not falling asleep.