Whatever happened to class, tact and diplomacy?

reply to post by Szarekh


In every way that truly matters, you're right. I wish you weren't.

In a complete aside, and off topic more than slightly maybe... We're in such a rush it seems to rob our children of their innocence...the anti-Santa Claus threads as an example. Unfortunately life has a way of doing it when we don't want it to, and in the most horrific fashion. Why the rush to do so voluntarily?

The aftermath of this atrocity hasn't even begun yet... The nightmares, both waking and sleeping. ...and all the other problems that will be associated with this.

I wish, how I wish, I could take all that upon myself for them. Those poor, poor babies.

Words are less than meaningless...hug your kids, people.

Glad you put this post together. I visited a friend two weeks after the Hungerford massacre in Hungerford (it was all pre-arranged). The press were nothing short of scum, they would throw money at anyone who could make a story about the murderer - whether it was right or wrong. They had no decency for the people in mourning and would print any rubbish.

Why do WE the readers put up with this. If we boycotted the sort of rubbish that is printed in the newspapers, then they would stop printing it straight away.

Originally posted by neformore

 

...
Have we really gone that far?
...

Quite sadly, I have nearly become persuaded that we have. This is why despite being a skeptical person, despite barely having any true faith left in anything, and despite fearing for my and our future, you will see me emphasize love so much in some of my posts. I know, I know. It's such an idealistic, arguably naive, even corny, thing. But it's the only thing I still believe in, and the thing most desperately needed in scenarios such as this tragedy in my opinion.


Civility, decorum, and tact are necessary when communicating in my view, and I encourage and try to employ them. But for me personally at least, what really matters is the empathy. And for that I need love. Children are dead. If my heart breaks because of this, is it because I'm being civil? No, it's because I love and have empathy for my fellow human beings who are suffering tremendously. (As they do elsewhere, continuously, sadly.)

So I feel that the reason we may have gone this far, is that we no longer find love within ourselves for one another. I'm as cynical as the next person. Day in and day out I see people regarding compassion as weakness and misguided, civility as "pretense." J see people arguing that others only care because it's fashionable to pretend to, etc. The idea of actually caring, truly caring, in one's "heart" for lack of a better term, is considered almost anathema to many today. Much less being civil, considerate, and respectful.

Especially on the internet. Everything on the internet is a competition now. An argument. Trolling has become the accepted norm. No one posts as themselves or speaks as they would in real life. It's like the internet is this huge online RPG where everyone competes to see who can be the biggest troll. And if you try to be genuine and compassionate you are, ironically, called "pretentious." It's quite sad, and I share your weariness with it both in the media, and even right here on ATS.

This thread is about the human condition

I agree, and that says it all.

Peace.

reply to post by AceWombat04


"what really matters is the empathy"


nail ON the head

Thank you for this thread. After the last few days, part of me is actually rooting for some apocalypse on Dec. 21. I'm loosing what little hope for humanity that I had left.

Of course, first you have the tragedy itself. As if senseless violence isn't bad enough, to see it happen to little children.... Our primal instincts are supposed to kick in. We're supposed to protect them, love and nurture them. Not slaughter them.

But, this 'shocked, saddened' world can't stop there. We swoop down on this tragedy like vultures. Even the best meaning of us feel our right to know trumps an entire community's anguish. We poke, prod, and pick every scrap of meat off the carcus. It's easy to blame the press. And yes, they are the ones physically doing the actions, but why? Because they have to make money. And they make money feeding us. If our nausea over their actions would outweigh our morbid curiosity, there would be repercussions. Enough of us would refuse to watch, complain, or turn to more sensitive sources. If they saw their revenue drop, they would change their tactics, but as long as we feed them, they'll feed us. I was impressed by NPR. They were very careful in what and how they released information. Yet their audience tends to be among the smallest.

Instead we tune in to small children recounting terror, capture the images of families in profound grief, read the few words the 78 year old grandmother of the shooter and mother of one of the victims can shakily get out when hounded by the press. We learn that the father of the shooter discovers his life has been shattered by press ambush. We spread images of the brother/son who learns via facebook by being wrongly accused and is quickly cuffed and hauled off to a police station.

Now that we have investigated the carcus, we feel fully justified to smear our own thoughts all over it. We all carefully say how saddened we are before ramming our agenda or pet conspiracy down someone's throat however, so that's supposed to make it ok.

I was ready to launch into a rage when I heard the spoof news outfit 'The Onion' had already done an article. What a sad comment on our society that they had some of the best pieces about the event. The first article contains quite a bit of foul language, but conveys quite well, a nation absolutely shocked and dismayed at the condition of humanity. The second mocked the press by quoting a numbed society so used to these tactics, they have the "timeline of events" down pat - everything from when old acquaintances would be interviewed to when calls for gun control would start. Another reported that it's perfectly fine to curl up in a little ball under your desk for the rest of the day and even helpfully suggests pulling your knees up to your chest and rocking may help. Meanwhile, the "real" news continues exploiting every detail, the grizzlier, the better.

And even here, a good rational plea for decency is 3 pages long after almost 2 full days. How many of the other threads are under a dozen after a day?

We, as a society, have to relearn how to be decent humans again. It's ok, even natural to feel shock and outrage. It's a good instinct to want to make changes so this does not happen over and over again. But instead of outrage for a day or two where you yell at politicians to fix it, why don't you invest a little of yourself? How about taking a moment when you see a kid from your neighborhood looking for trouble and try to steer him away from it, let him know it's not ok. Then, be a nosy neighbor, tell his parents. If you see the awkward kid with the deadbeat Dad, include them in something you're doing with your family. If you see someone withdrawing from society, try to find out why. Even if you can only help by being someone to vent to, knowing someone cares can go a long way. And if that's too much, notice your waitress is busy before getting mad your coffee cup is empty for a minute or two. Actually look your cashier in the eyes and say "How's your day going? Looks like you've been really busy," instead of making exaggerated sighs waiting for your turn. Smile at a complete stranger, it may be the only friendly face that person sees all day.

Society is so damaged, in so many ways. We need people that are willing to give an actual crap for a lot longer than a few days after a tragedy.

Or we can pray for Armageddon on Dec. 21. Your choice.

I'll climb back off my high horse now and go back to lurking here, I just had to get that off my chest.

Other things have kept me away from coming back to this thread until now - just wanted to say thank you to everyone.who has commented so far.

Most of the post-incident talk is gun control, but should we - as a society in general - also be discussing some form of media regulation? We're currently having this debate in the UK after the Levenson enquiry into the actions of the press following the phone hacking scandal - do the main stream media need to self regulate or does there need to be some higher form of intervention?

How do we put the social conscience back into the media?

Media regulation would be tricky. Their job is supposed to watch everyone else and keep us informed so we're aware of problems. If you start regulating you could risk tying their hands over something important.

However, I would like a few of these journalists to be held accountable. If the person yelling fire in a crowded theater can be held legally accountable, I would hope they could be held to the same standard. My first thought after reading the "interview" with the 78 year old grandmother was, "Dear Lord, they're going to give the poor woman a heart attack!" What if they did? They probably knew her age (or at least a good guess from the Mother's age) before the call. You could reasonably assume such a call would add to her distress at a time when she must have been very vulnerable. I would think that would qualify for legal action. Maybe if a few were made an example of, others would be a bit more cautious...

No cases pop to mind where people have tried to hold journalists accountable, can anyone think of any?

There is also a very powerful piece Here written on Dec. 14th that discusses the problems of getting someone with mental health issues the help that they need. It's written by a mother who is terrified one day her son will do something horrible.

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me. A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me. That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

I'd rather see a discussion about what could be done about mental illness detection and treatment over gun control. I see that as more of the root problem than the tools used.

reply to post by Calare

I'd rather see a discussion about what could be done about mental illness detection and treatment over gun control. I see that as more of the root problem than the tools used.

Absolutely. That is the root cause of these events. The tools never cause the issue. Only the users behind the tools...

But for some it's easier to blame the tools, rather than address the core issue...mental illness and its causes. ...and the all too common addition of pharmacopia who's effects are nearly as scary as the illness they supposedly treat in many cases.

Until these issues are addressed these events will still occur. Take away the guns? They'll use fertilizer bombs, or home made knives or god alone knows what.

reply to post by neformore


This was a horrific act...what was frustrating was that one of the media outlets said that they had permission from the parents of the children who spoke...no I can only imagine who the media talked to and was declined but why would a parent allow their child to speak to the media after this happens...just so unfortunate and I'm tired of the pro gun anti gun posts...

reply to post by chrismarco


Not that I can't think of cases of parents making rather suspect decisions about their children's involvement in media, but I don't think the parents were thinking right then, and the journalists took advantage of it. I know in that case, my brains would be going a million miles an hour and a seemingly friendly, helpful, concerned face would be low on the list of dangers I'd be scanning for....

Whatever happened to class, tact and diplomacy?

My guess is that the aformentioned trio are hiding somewhere near respect, truth, honesty and compassion, all of which are sorely missing from a predominant portion of today's society.

Greed . . . disdain . . . distrust . . . dishonesty . . . dislike . . . put a dis in front of any of those qualities we're supposedly striving to be and you've got what is wrong with the world.

Nobody gives a rats ass about anybody unless it somehow serves their interests. If they or it does not, they're under the bus in no time, without as much as a glance over the shoulder by the thrower.

We've made electronic almost every aspect of communication and for the most part cannot sit for more than ten minutes in any given spot without texting, emailing, phoning or otherwise furthering the premise of a faceless society, making it even easier not to give a rotting sweet potato about anyone or anything . . . unless it is a means to an end.

Our elected officials cannot get along, let alone work cooperatively, our various branches of the goverenment . . . the FBI, CIA, NSA, TSA or whatever the three letter organization it may be . . . all fight amongst themselves to be top dog at the expense of those they're supposed to be protecting . . . the two political parties in this land cannot agree on anything unless it betters themselves or their cronies . . . bankers lie and swindle and cry mea culpa provided their seven digit bonus is intact while the little guy gets tossed into the street . . . our education system doesn't educate very well any more . . . children are starving in this 'developed' country . . . our health care system is more designed for profit than healing . . . we put more value in professional sports than human development . . . politicians drip a trail of slime wherever it is they go . . . people have their hands out waiting for somebody else to fix their problems and nobody owns up to their mistakes.

It's always somebody else's fault. We're a society of leeches waiting to blame anyone else for our own misfortune and we're so messed up we feel the need to arm ourselves to the teeth in case our neighbor might stray on to our property and put our stuff at risk.

Society is like a pear that rots from the inside out . . . by the time the blight shows on the surface, the core has decomposed beyond any reasonable use outside of fertilizer . . . and the blight is really starting to show in the human race leaving many to believe we're best cast off as fertilizer with the hope that somehow something better will grow from our rotting remains.

Originally posted by neformore

I saw a President make a difficult speech, only to have to rammed back down his throat by people who just want to accuse him or his government of setting the event up to further their political aims.

I saw a blatant attempt to use the tragedy to further and agenda politically with pretty speech at what should have been a memorial. How very tacky...

reply to post by howmuch4another


Then you are a poster child for what I'm talking about.

There is a time for political rivalry, and there is a time for respect for the dead.

Obama's speech was a humble one, made by a parent who was probably mulling how he would have reacted to news that his kids had been lost in such a tragedy.

I can only assume you aren't a parent, because any parent looking at what happened would, I'm sure, have reacted in the same manner. I know I did.

reply to post by neformore


No I am a parent and shed tears like every other most likely did. The fact that you put your own opinion on the Presidents speech as a "tough one only to have it thrown back in his face" is your own blindness to his use of the event to further an agenda. Give him a pass but get all over others for not having tact is hypocrisy. He was humble as you say...and tacky.

reply to post by howmuch4another


Sorry and all but... you are part of the problem.

You're applying your own political blindness to an event. You aren't letting it be. There is no politics to this event. Its a tradgedy.

Why choose to make the deaths of 27 people a political stunt simply because you don't (obviously) like Obama? Likely, if he had said nothing you'd have castigated him for that as well and suggested he was uncaring and callous.

Hes the President. He's expected to lead. He's expected to speak for the nation. That's his job.

reply to post by neformore


... he should have just left it to a memorial with eloquent descriptions of the victims and his heartfelt sorrow and not plant an agenda seed. We wouldn't be having this discussion at all. I think your inability to see your own double standard is telling me this is a futile discussion as we aren't going to change our opinions and I cringed at your attempt to discredit my opinion with the "you're part of the problem" comment. Very tactful and classy

reply to post by howmuch4another


What interests me most here is the way you've come at this whole thing in an almost agressive manner against Obama

When I say "you're part of the problem", thats my opinion on what you've written, because of that stance. You applied politics before humanity. You'd rather trash the man than believe he may actually have been genuinely affected by the event. Its just so... blinkered.

I don't have your political blinkers. I couldn't give a damn about who is president of the USA, and frankly I'm sorry, but I don't understand your sentiment.

Above all else, before anything else, hes a human and a father.

reply to post by neformore


Hello again...and this has become a great thread to read. Thank you.

Social conscience...that's a tough one. I can only go on my first instinct and that's to hit them where it hurts...where the money is. If you don't like what they write, don't ever buy their newspapers, and if you don't like what they put on tv, switch it off.

I will be very interested in what other people have to suggest.

reply to post by neformore


aggressive? that's just silly. I replied to your thread with an opinion about using a memorial to put forth a political agenda as being tacky in and of itself which you are refusing to credit. You have even suggested how I would have reacted if he said nothing which is a straw man. I appreciated much of the speech but it didn't blind me to that which was inappropriate and tacky.