Before we make guns illegal, lets make Meth, Cocaine and Heroin illegal.

Oh wait they are.

And criminals sell them regularly.

Why don't you educate yourself before openning your mouth.

The study, which just appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence." Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.

The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:

Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).

For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns. As the study's authors write in the report:

I don't support guns for everyone and think the semi-automatic and automatic weapons need to be done away with, but I do support gun ownership for responsible people who know how to use them and don't treat them like toys.

Gun ownership is a big responsibility and if done correctly can be very useful and can make our lives better.

I like hunting and that requires a gun. I take good care of my guns and treat them with the utmost respect. They are not in the reach of children and are under lock and key. Yes, they could be stolen but it would take a lot of effort to do that and they would be reported immediately.

If I lived in a bigger area with a high crime rate, I wouldn't be opposed to having a permit for a concealed carry for protection purposes. But, I don't live in a bad area so I don't need one. Since I don't need one, I don't carry one. All it takes is a little bit of common sense, not banning anything and everything.

Originally posted by pirhanna
Small nuclear devices don't kill people.
People kill people.
Therefor everyone should be able to carry around a suitcase nuke.

It is now, and always has been a violent world. Deal with it ! Carry a weapon or not. Cast your fate to the wind and / or pray. If you or anyone thinks they can " Fix " ( Assuming one believes violence is NEVER the answer ) humans to behave as cute puppies they will go mad. I legally carry a weapon. I've never had to utilize it as a device to kill ( as some would believe is there ONLY purpose ) I hate these threads. The very people who start or support their point of view are attempting to assert THEIR will upon others. FIX that and you may come close to your utopian society.

Originally posted by pirhanna
Small nuclear devices don't kill people.
People kill people.
Therefor everyone should be able to carry around a suitcase nuke.

Well, put simply, the world has been doing this since the 1950's. It was called the Cold War and it was a policy of deterence, and it worked. Nuclear-armed countries would never make a move against another nuclear-armed country because it pretty much meant mutally-assured destruction. We are still doing it today. Our subs on patrol are our nuclear deterents.

I know you meant to poke fun but you actually provided a significant and historical example, but on a much larger scale.

Is this supposed to be a real discussion of the gun problem? I doubt it. I think it is more about saving a few lives while putting all of us at risk. Guns are not really anymore risky then a hand axe or knife. These need to be handled carefully is all. The real problem is people. Are you WILLING TO KILL? To kill those who would attack you? I do not think so. You want someone else to do it for you. That is the problem.

Let us consider what would probably happen if everyone of sufficient age and training was required to carry one. Oh and by the way, if you are not capable of carrying a gun safely then you should not be capable of voting either.

Back to the point. When someone then attacked someone with a weapon they WOULD BE KILLED! Problem solved. As those others who might have thought of attacking someone with a weapon see their friends killed then they would not do it. OR THEY TOO WILL BE KILLED! In short order those who are criminally insane, or even criminally inclined would either die or change their ways. Society is saved.

The two problems with this. 1. Everybody would have to become responsible for their actions or lack of actions. Since it seems the primary aim of society these days, or at least as it is taught to kids, is NOT TO HAVE RESPONSIBILITY for anything. That will be a hard nut for society to crack as they have spent so much time and energy trying to remove that responsibility from us. Point 2. You will have to KILL. I realize this is a hard concept for people raised to let someone else do their killing for them. I can hear it now "OMG he wants us to kill poor little criminals, to shoot them down in the streets!" Yep! That is the only CIVILIZED thing to do. Shocking is it not?

I realize that to most of you, who have not had to fight for their lives, is a difficult concept. Get over it. Do your own killing from now on. Do not hire mercenarys in blue to do it for you. You are aware that when police were started their primary job was not to protect the citizenry, don't you? It was their job to go after the one's that ran before the citizens could kill them. It was up to the citizen's to protect themselves.

Ok flame away or you could actually bother to think about the problem rather then spouting platitudes. Their is a real problem with this society and it goes way back to almost the beginning. If you want to solve the problems we have you have to look at the BASIC concepts, not precedent like they do in law to get people off from crimes, but the beginning BASIC laws and concepts. A lot of people like to pat themselves on the back and say they have evolved because they do not kill people themselves, they have the police, the mercenarys, to do it for them. I disagree with that we have evolved concept. I think society has devolved instead.

Hey OP, good use of "reduction to the absurd" always nice to see someone really bringing intelligence and logical argument to the debate. That said, I entirely disagree with you. A small nuke, once detonated would kill many, not just the intended target. A nuke would also have radioactive fallout which would sicken many people, not only the intended target. A handgun or even an assault rifle can be aimed and fired with precison to kill only the aggressor.

Someone said a few posts back that if there were no handguns we wouldn't need guns for self defense. This is incorrect. If my 120lb wife is taking a walk and a 230lb ex con is out taking a walk.... you see where this is going. It is a sad but true reality that the only tool we have currently which completely levels the playing field is a well placed bullet. Tasers are not always reliable and sometimes won't pierce thick clothing and a knife is a poor choice for a tiny peaceful person to try to employ.

As a society we have become so risk averse and lawsuit-happy that we would rather all be unarmed and at the mercy of any gang of thugs or gun wielding maniac than allow average citizens to have the best available means of self defense. All of these shootings could have been averted had every citizen in this country taken their personal safety in their own hands. Only psychic cops can prevent crime before it's occurred.

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In other news murder is illegal and yet people still murder each other. We need stricter bans on murder.

Also, rape has been made illegal in at least 57 states. However enforcement cannot be quantified in at least 7.

More at 11.