Evidence THEY Program The Killers (Or Remote-Control Them).

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posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:59 AM
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I work in Psychology, and up until fairly recently, in Forensic Psychology, and the one thing you consistently see in serious offenders with a mental illness, is some indication that they are capable of committing crime. Historical Clinical Risk is a major part of assessing the "dangerousness" of someone who has already committed serious crime, but taking a full history should normally produce some clues as to what led an individual to offend.

I'm not sure we see the full picture with this kid-he apparently suffered with an ASD of some kind, whether that be Autism or Aspergers, but there is no indication of mental illness. What we also don't know is whether this kid engaged in behaviours that might be classed as key indicators of offending-no evidence of anti social behaviour, no diagnosis of conduct disorder, no evidence of anything other than he might have been a little hacked off in the days/weeks leading up to the shooting.

Now, what interests me is the reporting of the inicident as well as the reasons behind the crime. Morgan Freeman gave an incredibly accurate opinion about the nature of mass killing, and I certainly wouldn't dispute that at this point, but, if we are to believe that one disenfranchised young adult suddenly snapped and decided to target a bunch of innocent children, then isn't that a fairly simple story to report? Lots of kids, lots of unreliable witness reports, lots of high expressed emotion and lots of chaos. Surely this would allow the safe execution of a plan to identify a single gunman, who had issues.

Except they didn't. They reported a second potential gunman, then a third. There is in fact video and audio evidence of the police stating that they had a suspect "proned" outside the school, and there is video footage of the police legging it into the woods to apprehend and lead out a third handcuffed suspect. This is all very clear, and very accessible.

So, why not report it as it was? Why wouldn't the news channels report that one gunman had been found dead, but there were two other suspects in custody? Well, I guess the most obvious reason would be that this wasn't what we were supposed to know, that for some reason, it was important that we forgot about the two other suspects and focused more on the gunman.

It all seems a little chaotic, a little inconsistent, and smacks a little of agenda.

I don't know much about mind control, whether it's possible, how it's done if it is possible, and what kind of consequences that can have, but I do know that the press create a false democracy, and that the press are often more powerful than most governments, and if you have the press working on your side, then you are capable of anything.

Just a few thoughts anyway....




posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by Sunraged
 

I am still disturbed by the lack of follow up on the apprehended second gunman (captured on film as well). It does fuel conspiracy theories of this being a planned attack and the Lanza kid being manipulated and a possible patsy.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by CosmicCitizen
 


Indeed, and what is also difficult to believe, is that nobody has bothered to even ask the authorities about the other arrests, except it's entirely possible that they did, but as our own individual worlds are relatively very small indeed, we rely on the media to tell us what is out there. If they don't want us to know, they simply don't tell us.

Our choices are chosen for and served to us as though we are diners. Choice is a menu, and of course our choice depends on what type of food we enjoy most.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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I know I might get a little flak for this but let me start by pointing out that I'm one of you. That is to say that I am deeply suspicious of all these shootings and the circumstances surrounding them. I personally don't believe they are all coincidence and that even if they are, TPTB are definitely exploiting them to the hilt.

I would also like to say I'm aware this is a conspiracy forum and this kind of thread is what I expect here. There's really nothing wrong with it.

Now. With that said, I have to say that I've always found the idea of mind control and programmed killers for these types of things to be problematic. As much as I'm willing to stretch my imagination and keep an open mind, I'm just not sure I believe it's even possible.

I believe if someone has an agenda or crazy ideas or something and they can find someone who shares their goals and ideology, they could talk that person into doing just about anything. But just taking a random (even weak minded) person and actually making them do something they wouldn't ordinarily do? I have trouble believing that.

And even if this is possible, we have to be realistic about something. This is not the kind of theory the public is going to even consider for a second. You can't even get most people to consider the most plausible alternative theories. People might buy into mind control on a TV show where they are quite accustomed to routinely suspending disbelief but if you hit the average person with the idea of a brainwashed gunman in real life, most of them are going to write you off as a paranoid loon right off the bat.

The only people who can plausibly even suggest things like this are the supposed "experts" that are endorsed and embraced by the MSM. If they are invited onto a news show and they suggest the shooter may have been "under the influence" of violent video games, it suddenly sounds more plausible for some reason. But of course, those people are embraced by the MSM and TPTB for a reason. They say what they want them to say. And if they don't, you never hear from them.
edit on 18-12-2012 by BrianFlanders because: I spelt flak wrong.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by Twilightgem
I don't know if this had been mentioned but, I found this show about programming someone. The show Brainwashed in the Curiosity series adresses the question of programming someone to kill. The link gives a breakdown of the episode. They managed to prove that a person could be progressed to commit a crime upon receiving a triger and not recall doing it.
Here is the link


Of course they programme people to kill.

Armies are one macroscopic example of how normal, everyday men and women, who ordinarily might be devout, religious people brought up to abide by the laws of men and their god..usually, the primary teaching is one of peace and not to murder your fellow human beings, yet these people can be controlled and directed to murder their fellow human beings, without much more than patriotic propaganda.

They are brainwashed, trained to murder and then facilitated in their murder of other human beings.

It's happened ALL throughout history, and is obviously happening still today.

MK-Ultra and it's more modern and refined offshoots, is simply another method used to programme people to become murderers and to sacrifice their own lives that is of a tighter focus, more pronounced and directed form than the ordinary methods of raising Armies to do essentially the same thing.

Soldiers may well shed a tear for innocent people, including children they kill during drone bombing runs or missile shoots...yet, it simply doesn't register in their minds as barbarity, because they are programmed to believe it a normal function and consequence of legitamate warfare...as insane as that is, when you really think about it, it's exactly the same thing....mind control.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Illuminaughty8
reply to post by Firethefed
 


He lived with his mom. They would have had to control him through drugs or maybe his psychiatrist (can't confirm he had one but I think it's a safe assumption given his disorder) maybe they feared the mom could piece the story together after the fact.


Nope.

I'd think that killing his mother first, was a test.

To determine that the programme had taken properly. If he killed his mum, it's a fairly safe bet he would do as programmed at the school.

If he refused to kill his mother, they would both be dead there and then, and the cover story of his 'survivalist, gun hoarding, lunatic mother murdered her son, then shot herself...probably would have prepared a suicide note from the Mother, claiming she wanted to 'spare her son from going through doomsday'...but it wasn't needed, and they went with plan A...possibly.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by BrianFlanders
 


OK. I know I said I find the idea of mind control to be somewhat implausible but I was thinking......

I was wondering to myself how they could "program" someone to kill (or do anything else they wouldn't normally do) and the only thing I could come up with is they'd almost have to take a relatively normal person and make them forget most of what they know.

Now I know (for example) from living with epilepsy (as I have since I was in my teens and am now close to 40) that a tonic-clonic (grand mal) seizure pretty much wipes out any memory I have of anything that happened in the time shortly before it happened, during the seizure itself and for some time afterward. I have been told that I can become quite combative with anyone who is trying to help me in the first moments after the seizure and usually, I have almost no memory of this at all. The few memories I do have are usually scrambled and nonsensical.

So I guess I do have to admit that it is possible to seriously mess with someone's mind. Seizures don't wipe out all your memory but they can seriously mess with your memory.

MOVIE SPOILER ALERT!


If you've seen the movie Memento, you might recall the main character had a head injury and basically couldn't remember anything longer than a few minutes and there was this cop who was using him basically as an assassin by feeding him false stories about the targets he wanted him to kill (At least I think that was the plot). It was an interesting theory as to how someone might be manipulated into killing. If TPTB found some way to screw with people's brains this is certainly not entirely implausible. Especially now that they claim they're finding out which areas of the brain are responsible for what functions and so forth.

Sorry about the length. I just have to kind of have some idea how they might be doing it before it seems plausible.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by NJoyZ

Dude, the post is supposed to be for determining what humanity has the technical capabilities for in terms of forcing behaviors like those murders.

I'm sorry. A mad man who seemed to have issues with his mother killed a bunch of children, and your take on this is that a CEO of a bank is behind it.

Because he is a neighbor.

And because he can do mind-control magic.

This is such utter nonsense that there isn't really any point in discussing it further.



If it is possible (If you bothered to review the "evidence" people have been posting, and doing a little research on those concepts... you should find that it is POSSIBLE); and if there is ANY evidence to indicate that they ARE OR MIGHT be using those capabilities.

Aside from your "if"s, "might"s and then combining it with the "evidence" of the mad man having a CEO as neighbor (...I can hardly believe someone has actually written that), another big problem is that it is not possible to "program" or remote-control people.
Brainwashing is possible, yes, usually ignorant people who have a void inside of them are susceptible for brainwashing, leading them to religious paths or becoming convinced of all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories.
Also, long physical and mental abuse can also be used to "brainwash" people.



Many people, Especially here in ATS, believe that there may be evidence to indicate further investigation could be warranted. I am not saying the crowd is right, I am saying it is an interesting possibility, worth a further look.

Many people here believe that there is evidence of a neighbor being behind this because he is a CEO?
If that is the case, then this is a bigger nut-house than I thought.



I am not saying the points I outlined were evidence.

Then don't call them as such.



They are a starting point for investigation based on what this OP has heard of the topic so far. That is all (If my OP was inaccurately worded, I apologize as speaking literally with every word is not often required in our society).

You made completely nonsensical claims and called them evidence. If you are to be even close to being taken seriously, maybe you should pay more attention to your words. After that the false claims are out of the way, we can focus on faulty logic in your thoughts.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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I had forgotten about the Charles Bronson movie from back, I think, in the 70's called "Telefon" in which subjects were hipnotized and sent to the U.S. as Russian moles to carry out various destructive missions. I was looking for the scene in which it was first demonstrated to Bronson's character in the movie but couldn't find it. Here's one scene in the movie in which it is, however. The idea has been around for a long, long time:




posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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A sure-fire sign of the manipulated shooting is the lack of any believable motive for the shooters' acts:


12-16-92 Wayne Lo, 18, Simon's Rock College, Great Barrington, Massachusetts 2 dead, 4 wounded
"At the time I thought I did the right thing," he said recently. "But as I look back at it over time, more and more it doesn't make sense to me. And more and more I ask myself, Why? Why did I do it? I mean, Why?"

2-2-96 Barry Loukaitus, 14, Moses Lake, WA, Frontier Jr H.S. 3 dead, 1 wounded
"There are things in life we're never going to understand, and this case is one of those..."--His Attorney
"Barry never articulated a reason why he did what he did." --John Knodel, Grant County prosecutor who handled the case.

9-17-96 Jillian Robbins, 19, Penn State U, State College, PA 1 dead, 1 wounded
--when she was arrested, she answered repeatedly, "I don't know" when asked why she brought school violence back to PSU.

10-1-97 Luke Woodham, 16, and Grant Boyette, 19, Pearl, MS, Pearl H.S. 2 dead, 7 wounded
...(I) fought with myself because I didn't want to do any of it."

12-1-97 Michael Carneal, Paducah, KY, Heath H.S. 3 dead, 5 wounded
Carneal's home room teacher reported that Carneal did not seem to recognize what he had done."
--When ask why he did it, he said he didn't know.

3-24-98 Mitchel Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, Jonesboro, AS, Westside Middle School 5 dead
--"Since that day, when the boys have been asked the same question(why did they shoot), they appeared not to be able to give an answer." Johnson: "I really thought that no one would actually be hurt."

4-24-98 Andrew Wurst 14, Edinborough, PA, Parker Middle School(at off-campus school dance) 1 dead, 3 wounded
--"Why did he do it? Andrew doesn't know, ...saying he had no reason of kill the teacher." "...no one...that evening could recall anything that might explain what happened. Andrew himself has no explanation."

5-22-98 Kip Kinkel, Springfield, OR, Thurston High School, 1 dead, 7 seriously wounded
--In police interview he repeated "over and over" that "I had no choice."
Q: Why did you go to school and start shooting people?
A: I had to. I had no other choice. I couldn't do anything else.

4-27-99 Todd Cameron Smith, Taber,  Alberta  W.R. Myers HS, 1 dead, 1 wounded
--In a signed police statement, the boy later said: "I have no particular reason for shooting the boys that I did. I don't know who any of them were."

5-20-99 T.J. Solomon, 15, Conyers, GA, Heritage High, 6 wounded-
--Upon handing the gun over(a teacher had convinced T.J. not to kill himself--the barrel was in his mouth)he started crying hysterically and said repeatedly "I don't know why I did this."

12-6-99 Seth Trickey, 13, Fort Gibson, OK, 4 wounded
--"He said 'I don't know' when asked why he did it."

2-14-01 Jeremy Getman arrested at Southside High School in Elmira, New York State
--He admitted that he intended to shoot students and teachers and toss bombs into crowds when he brought weapons to Southside High School on Valentine's Day. Police said they have no motive for what could have been a killing spree.

3-5-01 Charles 'Andy' Williams, Santana HS, San Diego County 2 dead, 13 wounded
--Williams was interrogated by detectives for about an hour after his arrest, and while prosecutor Anton declined to detail what he said, she indicated the statements may not explain why he opened fire.

3-25-06 Seattle Rave Slaying, WA 7 dead, 2 wounded
"There is nothing we would like to do more than find out why this tragedy took place," he said. "Unfortunately, we may never know." (Police spokesman Sean Whitcomb)

10-9-06 Memorial Middle School, Joplin, MO
--A 13-year-old student walked into the east side of Memorial Middle School, shooting wth a rifle.... (boy's attorney Chuck)Lonardo said the boy's motives and intentions remain unclear even to him after sitting in on juvenile authorities' interview of the boy after the shooting. "That's just it," Lonardo said. "We still don't know.

2-12-07 Suleiman Talovic, 18, SLC Trolley Square massacre, Salt Lake City, UT 5 dead, 4 wounded
--Salt Lake City police have finished their exhaustive investigation into the shooting rampage at Trolley Square, finding no real motive for 18-year-old Sulejman Talovic's killing spree. "I think it may have died with him," Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank said in an interview Sunday with the Deseret Morning News.

1-24-09 Portland Niteclub Shooting Richard Ayala, 24 3 dead, 6 wounded.
"We may never know the reasons that Ayala shot into a crowd of innocent people and took his own life," Detective Ken Whattam said.

9-6-11 Carson CIty, NV IHOP Eduardo Sencion, 32 5 dead, 7 wounded
A year later, one question remains: Why?
“He took the answer to that question to the grave,” Furlong said. “What went wrong in his head, we’ll never know.”

12-8-11 Virginia Tech Shooting, Blackburg, VA Ross Truett Ashley, 22 2 dead
"Investigators still have not identified a motive for the attack by 22-year-old Ross Truett Ashley, who later shot himself."(dated nine months later)

8-5-12 Wade Michael Page, 40 Sikh Temple shooting, 0ak Creek, Wisc 7 dead 3 wounded
Police Chief John Edwards: "We may never know the motive, because he died, and that motive died with him."

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posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by Nevertheless
 


Nevertheless... I did not say the CEO did it! You assume to much (and that makes an ass out of you and me). I simply noted it as a potentially relevant piece of information WHICH seem all the more relevant given the claims that the fathers of both killers are scheduled to testify in the LIBOR hearings before the United States Senate. LIBOR if you are not aware is by far the largest banking fraud case in known history. We are talking about a fraud that literally encompasses almost every nation on earth with standard trade relations. A fraud affecting ALL major financial transactions world wide. BOTH killers (supposedly) have fathers, who are high ranking people related to the financial scandal (if you thought Bernie Madoff was a big scandal, this one makes that look like a drop in the lake! --evidently, the press coverage has been present but insignificant compared to Madoff's case [Hmmm... i wonder why? Can anybody smell a stink from "big banking sponsorship"?]). You can look up the names of the killers, and apparently match them to the names of people (I have not tried, just read summaries of their resumes and their tasks related to the LIBOR case).

Anyway the point is that this is about seeing if there are connections between the dots (or like you say, maybe no connections at all -but putting blinders on your eyes only means that You wont see it coming, it does not stop the cunning and intelligent criminals from engaging in such behaviors. and as most criminals prefer not to be seen publicly committing crimes (hence the whole back ally stereotype, you are only doing them a service by imagining that they can't, wont, or wouldn't). IN ANY INVESTIGATION, EVIDENCE IS LOGGED AGAINST SUSPECTS; THIS DOES NOT INDICATE A GUILTY PARTY WAS CHOSEN (EG. CEO , as you say). IT INDICATES SIMPLY THAT A POTENTIAL CONNECTION RELATING TO THE MURDER OF THOSE CHILDREN HAS BEEN DISCOVERED, AND AS A POTENTIAL SHOULD BE FURTHER INVESTIGATED UNTIL IT EITHER PROVED FALSE, TRUE, OR GOES COLD. STANDARD PROCESS FOR A PROPER AND THROUGH INVESTIGATION.

You claim that it is irrational to think that there may be motives for trillion dollar financial "criminals" (for lack of a better word -- it may actually be legal until they kill people). Others online have already presented ideas regarding the reasons for the method: Using photographic facial comparisons to suggest that the James Holmes in custody is not the real James Holmes and that the real sons of these key witnesses are being held as ransom to ensure that their fathers give favorable testimonies to the Senate; is one of the suggestions I've seen. I for one can not, and have not, and am not saying any of that is true, I'm saying the threads of potential evidence that theorists have proposed are worth looking into just in case they happen to be valid.

For you to have such a dislike for the idea that people would "Theorize" about how anyone might be "conspiring", is like having a hatred for real life heroes who have devoted themselves to the somewhat noble cause of uncovering hidden and harmful criminal elements in our society (much like hobbyist-cops, or detectives).

Grow a heart, and then use it to pump some blood to your brain so you can do some deep thinking about what people are truely capable of when they want to be bad and have the means, they can be much worse than school shooters, and much more intelligent than the criminals that get caught. With enough money greasing the right palms, they can be capable of arranging things that you can not (apparently) bring yourself to imagine.
edit on 20-12-2012 by NJoyZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 02:46 AM
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I am not saying the points I outlined were evidence.


Then don't call them as such.

OK, They are "Bits of the story that may have the potential to lead towards evidence" To be clear the is no proof here about the case only examples of what is possible until proven otherwise. Satisfied? Is that linguistically accurate enough for you?
edit on 20-12-2012 by NJoyZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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Is there any info on Adam Lanza middle name.

Below is an incomplete list of names and locations I'm working on.

James Eagan Holmes - Aurora CO- Theater - 39° 42′ 21.24″ N, 104° 49′ 14.16″ W
James Eagan Holmes" in the English Reduction system equals 58
(1+1+4+5+1+0+5+1+7+1+5+0+8+6+3+4+5+1), which reduces to 13, which reduces to 4

Wade Michael Page- Oak Creek WI - Temple - 42° 54′ 29″ N, 87° 54′ 39″ W
"Wade Michael page" in the English Reduction system equals 68
(5+1+4+5+0+4+9+3+8+1+5+3+0+7+1+7+5), which reduces to 14, which reduces to 5

Adam ? Lanza - Newtown CT - School - 41° 25′ 12″ N, 73° 16′ 43″ W
"Adam Lanza" in the English Reduction system equals 28
(1+4+1+4+0+3+1+5+8+1), which reduces to 10, which reduces to 1

Used Name calculator to calculate names.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Was a sniper in the woods the true culprit?



Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. H. Wayne Carver II said, "All the wounds that I know of at this point were caused by the LONG weapon." A RIFLE was fired according to the medical expert, NOT a handgun... But that's not what America is being told. All the witnesses are dead. The supposed shooter is dead. His mother is dead. All that is left is an empty frame for the old state run media to fill in for us. "Nancy Lanza legally owned a Sig Sauer and a Glock, both HANDGUNS commonly used by police, and a military-style Bushmaster (rifle) .223 M4 carbine, according to law enforcement officials..." But the Bushmaster was NOT fired! It was found in the back seat of Nancy Lanza's car, unused.
edit on 20-12-2012 by NJoyZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by JewAgainstZionism
reply to post by NJoyZ
 


They are upping the stakes now by going after innocent kids. 5 and 6 year old kids. Just sickening.

And Remember how Holms the movie cinema shooter was all disoriented and confused in court

THIS IS A BRIGHT EDUCATED GUY, looked like he was drugged and not aware where he is.

United States is under attack, attack from CIA and their employers.


My first thought is, wouldn't you try anything and everything to sway the courts opinion?



posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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I just watched the manchurian candidate 2004
and was shocked to see in the scene where Denzil Washington is offered the medal IN THE SCHOOL CLASSROOM.(Its about three quarters into the movie)
a picture or childs painting hanging on the wall looks a lot like adam lanza
IM NEW TO THE FORUM AND im looking to find out a way to upload a picture i took



posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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here is the picture




posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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I believe the US government has taken the Haitian zombie drugs and reformulated them as part of a deep black government/CIA program.
www.cnn.com...

The program likely was to be used to take out foreign leaders and the people around them in a way that could not be traced back to the CIA or the US government because someone in the foreign government would be grabbed off the street and programed to do the hit.

I believe using these drugs the government can program a mass killer in less then 24 hours and since the government (FBI and ATF )take the lead in the investigations they control the fact that the person has been programed will never see the light of day.

With the Fast and Furious gun walking scandal we see other programs to disarm the people and i believe the 'mass killer program" is part of this type programs.

The mentality ill make the perfect people for the government to use because they are mentality ill losers and if they survive they get put in a mental hospital where the government can control them and study them to prefect there program.

edit on 22-12-2012 by ANNED because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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I don't understand why it's so hard for people comprehend why there are so many conspiracy theorists out there. Just between the Aurora and Conn. shootings there are so many inconsistencies in the police reports that it should make anyone question what exactly is going on. There is no possible way we can completely rule out mind control! It would be easy for investigators and police departments to quickly put an end to the obvious questions and rumors if they would simply answer the questions people have. But it seems they don't give two f***s about what we think. And why would they? What can we do about it? NOTHING!!



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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maybe someone was caught in the woods but was proven to be innocent?they may want to protect the individual from being hounded by the press etc.
i cant imagine the whole police force in that area allowing two more mass child killers to go free.id at least expect half of them to resign in protest if they were asked to cover this up and at least half whistleblowing






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