The Hypocrisy of Gun Control Advocates

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posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by PrincessTofu
 




While you're making out with freedom, what would you advise to help the freedom of not being shot? How can the crazies be curbed?




I don't have a cure all solution. I would say it starts with parents being good decent people and teaching their kids how to behave properly and respect for others.

Focus government spending on improving education and providing employment opportunities for youth and lower income families. Stop spending so much on the military and stop going to war with other nations.

Truly, I don't think the major problems are guns. The media has blown this issue out of proportion. There are much more dangers to worry about than crazy gunmen.

Crossing the street is more dangerous. I don't worry about what might happen in some 1 in a million chance of some crazy gunman or being hit by a car. I try to live my life day to day and treat others around me with respect.




It really isn't about pro or anti gun when it comes down to it, is it? It's about a broken society, mental disorders and people being harmed en masse.
edit on 15-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)


Personally, I don't think gun control is the issue. I think it's a smoke-screen to divert from a larger social issue that REALLY needs to be addressed. Although, I agree too many idiots have guns. But also, too many idiots have kids, sports cars, power of attorney, tee-times, etc.


Agreed
edit on 15-12-2012 by MagicWand67 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 02:55 AM
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I don't have a cure all solution. I would say it starts with parents being good decent people and teaching their kids how to behave properly and respect for others.
reply to post by MagicWand67
 


Maybe some sort of mandatory and free parenting classes when people go in for their first ultra-sound? How to teach a couple generations worth of abused people how to treat their children well and how to teach their children to behave well? Some people have had horrible parents.

Also, I still can't believe the kindergarten teacher legally owned the small arsenal her son used to murder those kids. 'Do you own an arsenal of weapons?' should be added to the job application for teachers.
edit on 15-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)


It was a small, no-crime town before her weapons were used to kill children. She surely didn't use them for self-defense.
edit on 15-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)


Sorry, I am having anger because of the tragedy and directing it poorly.
edit on 15-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by PrincessTofu
 





Maybe some sort of mandatory and free parenting classes when people go in for their first ultra-sound? How to teach a couple generations worth of abused people how to treat their children well and how to teach their children to behave well? Some people have had horrible parents.


I agree. I also think that there should be better access to programs that can give support to people with mental or emotional problems. Better health care services.

Stop the corporate bleeding of the middle class. Bailout foreclosed homeowners who deserve a second chance to save their homes instead of bailing out the banks and provide a living wage for the working class.



Also, I still can't believe the kindergarten teacher legally owned the small arsenal her son used to murder those kids. 'Do you own an arsenal of weapons?' should be added to the job application for teachers.


I am not sure. But I think she was just a teachers aid for the school and not actually a full time teacher there.

If indeed the weapons belonged to the mother. It kind of removes the idea that stricter gun control would solve the problem.

A person can pass all the government checks. But it won't stop their crazy kid from stealing the gun. Maybe better parenting and gun storage wold have helped.



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 03:24 AM
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Maybe better parenting and gun storage wold have helped.
reply to post by MagicWand67
 


Agreed. Gun safety locks or gun safes seem like a pretty responsible idea.



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 04:35 AM
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I thought gun safes were required ?

I'm loving all these gentlemen from the UK trying to tell us why Americans shouldn't be able to own guns..

When they most likely live in a city, far from 'the woods' and all the dangerous animals that live in America that would gladly eat the same children the foreigners want to protect from guns, who are protected with guns.

And I don't even like guns..
edit on 15-12-2012 by christoph because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by MagicWand67
 


This is a great post but I think the problem is much larger than just to ask why people are blaming guns. The general public is always going to look for the simplest possible solution. The easiest answer. How often do you see people buying things that look like metal but are actually made of plastic? And then, a few days later when it breaks the first time they use it, they wonder why.

People buy their kids FPS video games even knowing the contents and let them sit in their bedrooms for hours on end shooting virtual people in a virtual world unsupervised and then it's a surprise when they apply what they've learned in the video games to the real world.

Now I'm not saying FPS games should be banned. Far from it. I believe in freedom. But the problem is that we have people who are going to be irresponsible and when the obvious happens, no one is going to search far enough for the cause to realize it wasn't the gun that caused the crazy kid to shoot a bunch of people. It just might have been his terrible upbringing. Wonder why this stuff didn't happen so often when boys had better role models than these ambiguous characters in the movies we've been seeing coming out of Hollywood where you can't tell where the good guy ends and the bad guy begins? It makes for wonderful entertainment for intelligent adults who are emotionally and psychologically equipped to interpret it properly but just maybe it's a problem if a 10 year old boy watches The Dark Knight unsupervised or if his parents cannot explain the nuances of the plot and the characters to him in such a way that he understands The Joker is the villain.

That boy's parents will likely never admit it might have partially been their parental indiscretions that contributed to him turning into a murderous sociopath. It's a lot easier to say "It shouldn't have been so easy for him to get a gun"

The problem we have is a lot worse. We have people who want to erase most of our rights and incidents like this are perfect excuses for them. They do not want the public to be any more discerning or critical than it is. It's perfect if the public blames guns. It's even better if the public thinks everyone who seems a little odd or has an original thought on occasion is dangerous.

A gradual gun ban (Which is what I firmly believe "gun control" really is) works just as well (or better) than a ban they try and pass and enforce in a year. They will settle for taking guns away from people who are deemed mentally unstable first. It will be only too easy to deal with whomever is left later.
edit on 15-12-2012 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by BrianFlanders
reply to post by MagicWand67
 


This is a great post but I think the problem is much larger than just to ask why people are blaming guns. The general public is always going to look for the simplest possible solution. The easiest answer. How often do you see people buying things that look like metal but are actually made of plastic? And then, a few days later when it breaks the first time they use it, they wonder why.

People buy their kids FPS video games even knowing the contents and let them sit in their bedrooms for hours on end shooting virtual people in a virtual world unsupervised and then it's a surprise when they apply what they've learned in the video games to the real world.

Now I'm not saying FPS games should be banned. Far from it. I believe in freedom. But the problem is that we have people who are going to be irresponsible and when the obvious happens, no one is going to search far enough for the cause to realize it wasn't the gun that caused the crazy kid to shoot a bunch of people. It just might have been his terrible upbringing. Wonder why this stuff didn't happen so often when boys had better role models than these ambiguous characters in the movies we've been seeing coming out of Hollywood where you can't tell where the good guy ends and the bad guy begins? It makes for wonderful entertainment for intelligent adults who are emotionally and psychologically equipped to interpret it properly but just maybe it's a problem if a 10 year old boy watches The Dark Knight unsupervised or if his parents cannot explain the nuances of the plot and the characters to him in such a way that he understands The Joker is the villain.

That boy's parents will likely never admit it might have partially been their parental indiscretions that contributed to him turning into a murderous sociopath. It's a lot easier to say "It shouldn't have been so easy for him to get a gun"

The problem we have is a lot worse. We have people who want to erase most of our rights and incidents like this are perfect excuses for them. They do not want the public to be any more discerning or critical than it is. It's perfect if the public blames guns. It's even better if the public thinks everyone who seems a little odd or has an original thought on occasion is dangerous.

A gradual gun ban (Which is what I firmly believe "gun control" really is) works just as well (or better) than a ban they try and pass and enforce in a year. They will settle for taking guns away from people who are deemed mentally unstable first. It will be only too easy to deal with whomever is left later.
edit on 15-12-2012 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)


Seriously? You guys freak out over guns but were ok with Bush II wiretapping? Where was your outrage then? We still haven't regained our freedom of privacy.
edit on 15-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)


People are like omg not our 2nd amendment rights!! when it comes to guns but when Bush said 'We're going to tap every phone in America' you guys bowed down like a bunch of cowards. Did tapping our phones keep us ANY safer than taking away guns would? Nobody ever killed anyone with a phone.
edit on 15-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)


Phones don't kill people.
edit on 15-12-2012 by PrincessTofu because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by PrincessTofu


Seriously? You guys freak out over guns but were ok with Bush II wiretapping? Where was your outrage then?


When Bush2 was in office, I was arguing with people who defended his policies every single day. It wasn't easy in the beginning, either. It was an unpopular thing to do to say to someone in public that the government shouldn't be spying on people or torturing people in order to fight terrorism. I was called every name in the book at one time or another.

It wasn't until the later years of Bush's second term that people started to calm down and you could sort of debate these people. I think it's a serious mistake to think everyone who believes in the Second Amendment was a fan of GWB. I wasn't.
edit on 15-12-2012 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by BrianFlanders

Originally posted by PrincessTofu


Seriously? You guys freak out over guns but were ok with Bush II wiretapping? Where was your outrage then?


When Bush2 was in office, I was arguing with people who defended his policies every single day. It wasn't easy in the beginning, either. It was an unpopular thing to do to say to someone in public that the government shouldn't be spying on people or torturing people in order to fight terrorism. I was called every name in the book at one time or another.

It wasn't until the later years of Bush's second term that people started to calm down and you could sort of debate these people. I think it's a serious mistake to think everyone who believes in the Second Amendment was a fan of GWB. I wasn't.
edit on 15-12-2012 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)


Yeah, that whole thing was insane. The Patriot Act stripped more rights from us than we had gained in 100 years of fighting for rights. At least he found himself charming enough to continue to allow women to vote.



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 05:25 AM
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1000000000thh thread about this



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 06:10 AM
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reply to post by ShotGunRum
 


It's kind of to be expected, though. It's a huge story.



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by spangledbanner
Arent the people that own guns for protection the ones living in fear?

Any country in Europe or UK has lower gun crime than America. Lower deaths from guns. Way lower. People in Europe and the UK are not so very afraid of criminals I guess.

Do American's really think they can overthrow a government that has the largest military in the world? Thats stupid.

Isnt the American Government already tyrannical?


Have you evern TRIED to find out the truth about "gun crimes in Europe"?...

Get those blinders off, stop lying throught your teeth and learn to research and find out the truth instead of blindly spousing lies based on false assumptions...


The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.


By James Slack
UPDATED: 18:14 EST, 2 July 2009

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour.
...
The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.

But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.

In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.



...
The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.
...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

And in the UK guns are BANNED...



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by LeatherNLace

Straw man....public smoking in confined places is all but gone.....If you are referring to smokers in the household, then I agree; yet, that is an issue that Democrats can not control and republicans will defend in the face of all evidence to the contrary....I smoke cigarettes AND I FULLY believe they should be illegal....I will never stop otherwise....I have defeated the most vile of addictions (rhyming with smocaine); yet I can't kick nicotine...BAN THAT STUFF; help me help myself....it's too addictive.


I could make the case with other "devices" that kill, but I dont want to have them labeled "strawman" either.....




"It is true that smoking is banned in many public places and workplaces," Max said. "However, our use of the biomarker indicates that people are still being exposed more than we realized. Much of this may be at home, but not all. Studies show that even small amounts of secondhand smoke exposure may have a negative impact on health, particularly for people who are vulnerable for various reasons."


Secondhand Smoke Kills 42,000 Nonsmokers a Year in US


This is one of the comments from your link, I personally agree with it




We’ve been told for years secondhand smoke is deadly dangerous but we are here alive and there are no deaths from it, not even close. It’s an exaggerated, created science all its own. It’s propaganda - fallacies created to have justifications for a new round of tobacco prohibition. I am for freedom, freedom for all people to have their own place in this world, including the smokers! Tobacco smoke maybe an irritant to some, but that’s about it. Its chemical makeup has been so exaggerated by tobacco control pundits, it’s insanity. Only 6 percent of tobacco smoke constitutes those 7,000 theorized and identified components of the smoke. Theorized is the word, since the claimed chemicals are themselves so small they can barely be detected. Nanograms, femtograms are the sizes of what can be detected so they theorize the rest. Four p ercent is carbon monoxide, while nearly 90 percent constitutes ordinary atmospheric air! These figures come from the surgeon general’s report in 1989. Oh the pundits may bring up benzene in tobacco smoke. The average cigarette produces roughly 300 micrograms of benzene (1986 report of the surgeon general. p.130) 0.3 micrograms - 300 nanograms. Benzene is normally found in fruits, fish, vegetables, nuts, dairy products, beverages and eggs. The National Cancer Institute estimates that an individual may safely ingest up to 250 micrograms in their food per day, every single day of the year. Thus, the “safe” exposure to benzene from one day of a normal diet is roughly equal to the exposure experienced by a nonsmoker sharing an airspace with smokers for over 750 hours. It’s a political movement and it was never about health....



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 07:52 AM
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BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China on Friday, state media reported, the latest in a series of attacks on children in the country.


Villager slashes 22 kids with knife at elementary school



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by MagicWand67
My rant is more directed at the people who want to ban guns all together.

And those that think that guns are to blame when some nut job goes on a killing spree.

This guy could have used a knife and bat and still caused as much mayhem.

Could you list some comparable killing sprees carried out with a knife or a bat? You seem to be pretty convinced this is possible.

I am in favour of heavy gun regulation. You can never stop criminals possessing firearms, but you can make them so hard to get that they are used rarely. Yes, society and other violent influences (video games actually serve to calm emotions by providing a cathartic outlet) can be responsible to some extent, but we must also look at the tools used to commit such a crime.

Lets say there's a spate of knife attacks in clubs. What's the proper response to this? Banning knives outright is pointless and essentially impossible, but we can increase penalties for public possession, take action against knives designed to be undetectable etc.

This is the job of a responsible society, to protect its members from the more unhinged out there, and part of that protection is reducing access to weaponry. The "right to bear arms" is several hundred years out of date in most of the western world and the idea that an organised militia would be any match for modern mechanized forces died in the first world war.

Strong gun regulation is essential to a civilised society. The USA kills 2-3x more people with guns per capita than the UK does overall. I'm not claiming it's caused by guns, but the easy access to a weapon designed soley for efficient killing at a distance is surely a mitigating factor.


China same day....school children attacked by knife wielding man.....22 kids slashed.....
Why you Brits feel sooo superior i dont know, but id suggest you get the hey off your high horse and address the problems your own society faces, before telling the rest of the world how to live....
I get sick of you people elling the rest of us ow superior your way of life is......
Plenty wrong with your country or we wouldnt have kicked yer asses in 1776



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 08:23 AM
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"China same day....school children attacked by knife wielding man.....22 kids slashed.....
Why you Brits feel sooo superior i dont know, but id suggest you get the hey off your high horse and address the problems your own society faces, before telling the rest of the world how to live....
I get sick of you people elling the rest of us ow superior your way of life is......
Plenty wrong with your country or we wouldnt have kicked yer asses in 1776"


Notice how these other kids in China were only slashed rather than killed.
edit on 15-12-2012 by homeslice because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by MagicWand67
 


You raise some excellent points.

I'm not an active and vocal gun control advocate, and I'm also not an active and vocal 2nd ammendment advocate. However you do have to admit, that there is some ridiculousness out there with regard to the availability of guns and the laws (or lack thereof) that govern them.

For instance, what's so wrong with background checks and mandatory waiting periods for buying a firearm?

These people are either crazy, violent, angry, emotionally disturbed or all of the above. Their problems didn't begin the moment they acquired a gun. In fact, I would guess that their problems began long before the day they snapped and went on their deadly rampages. Shouldn't we place the blame on all the factors that led up to these senseless tragedies and not just gun control?


Wouldn't background checks prevent at-risk people - like what you just described - from obtaining a lethal weapon? What's wrong with taking a psych evaluation before you buy a gun? What, you worried you'd fail?

What about banning SOME guns (i.e. assault rifles, sub-machine guns, automatic pistols, etc.)?

If it's not already, how about a mandatory firearms safety test, when you buy a gun? Just like how you can't get a driver's license without passing a government approved test.

Why are pro-gun people in such an uproar when people want to enact SOME regulations on guns that would prevent irresponsible users gaining access to lethal and deadly weapons.

I believe, as a society on the issue of guns, we can have the best of both worlds.



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by ShotGunRum
1000000000thh thread about this



Ya Think?...




People are emotional and want to vent off the pain and pressure....get used to it or feel free to avoid the boards for a few days...



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by sumgai

Wouldn't background checks prevent at-risk people - like what you just described - from obtaining a lethal weapon? What's wrong with taking a psych evaluation before you buy a gun? fail?


The guns this guy used apparently belonged to his mother so no it wouldnt have made a difference.



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by sumgai
 





Wouldn't background checks prevent at-risk people - like what you just described - from obtaining a lethal weapon? What's wrong with taking a psych evaluation before you buy a gun? What, you worried you'd fail?

What about banning SOME guns (i.e. assault rifles, sub-machine guns, automatic pistols, etc.)?

If it's not already, how about a mandatory firearms safety test, when you buy a gun? Just like how you can't get a driver's license without passing a government approved test.

Why are pro-gun people in such an uproar when people want to enact SOME regulations on guns that would prevent irresponsible users gaining access to lethal and deadly weapons.

I believe, as a society on the issue of guns, we can have the best of both worlds.



I have no problem with any of the above regulations being mandatory.

I agree that some regulation is a good thing.





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