Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

The Hypocrisy of Gun Control Advocates

page: 21
129
<< 18  19  20    22  23  24 >>

log in

join

posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 10:45 AM
link   
reply to post by MagicWand67
 


Yes a violent society is to blame, how will we ever abolish violence if we still have guns? You can fight violence with the violence, you can treat drugs with drugs, but it'll never help.




posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 10:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by MagicWand67
 


Well said. Let me be the first to congratulate you and your common sense. I'm a veteran and a patriot and a believer in the 2nd amendment, however, I also fully support reasonable gun control legislation. Over 40% of states do not check backgrounds before issuing a pistol permit. That seems stupid to me and a good place to start. I am not a criminal nor do I have any deep psychological issues, therefore I had no problem answering a 7 page questionaire regarding my criminal or medical background.


A seven page questionaire? Just what sort of nut are you?



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 10:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Wongbeedman
reply to post by MagicWand67
 


Yes a violent society is to blame, how will we ever abolish violence if we still have guns? You can fight violence with the violence.



Oh sure you can.....the cops do it every day. Violence always has to be met with violence. Just ask the people that are paied to protect you. I mean you may not have to get up off sofa to do anything about it. And thats ok because then your la la world isnt tested and you can go on in la la world.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 11:03 AM
link   
reply to post by Logarock
 


What in the land of la la did you just say



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 11:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by MagicWand67
First, I want to offer deepest sympathy, prayers and condolences to the victims, the families and their friends of those who were killed in today's tragedy and the other tragedies previous to this one. I am not a gun owner and I do not actively promote the right to bare arms. .


Yes, and these victims who are getting so much sympathy, and whom I have no doubt will milk it for all that it is worth and live off it for the rest of their lives, what horrors have they committed in their turn? How many of those children were victims of abuse, of paedophilia, of being spoiled by over indulgence etc., etc., I bet there was hardly a one of them that did not have some problem brought on by the behaviour of their parents. They are ALL monsters. And even most, if not all, of the children - how many of them were victimising their school fellows and making their lives a misery, or cliping, or lying to get other into trouble, or making their teachers lives hell? One has to ask IS there really a victim here? Is it not more that people get what they bought, that they make their beds and they have to lie in them? It is all too convenient, a nice cop-out, to believe in random evil being visited upon the innocwent rather than in karma, in you-make-your-own-fate, The killer is being demonised when in fact ALL are culpible.

Let's have less of the bleeding hearts and more of facing up to and doing something about one's own culpability - you killed those children every bit as much as that man who fired the gun.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 01:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by pantodragon
Yes, and these victims who are getting so much sympathy, and whom I have no doubt will milk it for all that it is worth and live off it for the rest of their lives, what horrors have they committed in their turn? How many of those children were victims of abuse, of paedophilia, of being spoiled by over indulgence etc., etc., I bet there was hardly a one of them that did not have some problem brought on by the behaviour of their parents. They are ALL monsters. And even most, if not all, of the children - how many of them were victimising their school fellows and making their lives a misery, or cliping, or lying to get other into trouble, or making their teachers lives hell? One has to ask IS there really a victim here? Is it not more that people get what they bought, that they make their beds and they have to lie in them? It is all too convenient, a nice cop-out, to believe in random evil being visited upon the innocwent rather than in karma, in you-make-your-own-fate, The killer is being demonised when in fact ALL are culpible.


Excuse me, but if I may ask... Are you Adam Lanza posting from some place beyond this world? Like a purgatory, or more preferably the baddest @ss circle of Hell? It's that unmistakable mental streak that gives away your personality.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 01:19 PM
link   
reply to post by pantodragon
 

Your post frightens me.

NO MATTER what those victims had done, they DO NOT deserve death - adults or child.

Who gave the killer or anyone else right to play god?

Those victims are deserving of empathy, sympathy and every help we can give right now, for they had NOT broken any law. Even IF they had not so good social habits, they DO NOT deserve death.

That you can use your version of 'logic' to blame the innocent victims without even a shred of evidence, only unsubstantiated beliefs to lay blame, frightens me thoroughly. You need help, seriously, and not meant in any way offensively or to cause you any harm. Please calm down, and discuss the issue calmly and rationally with people who care about you, or a good pastor



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 02:17 PM
link   
reply to post by pantodragon
 


Are you a member of the Westboro Baptist Church?

If not, you should be.




posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 02:53 PM
link   
post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 03:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by Buzzlighthead
....Get rid of the assault weapons and watch the numbers of gun deaths drop.


Really? how many homicides involve the use of long arms (i.e. rifles, shotguns,etc)? look it up, i mean it isn't that hard but i have a feeling this topic is a bit like global warming,

never let facts get in the way of the agenda

Let's just say people with selective perception convinced me that any type of combat gear are going to be very desirable items for the next round of genocide that seems to wait in around the next corner. The mentality of herd thinkers worries me and the irrationality, unforgivingness (to avoid the term hate...) in political questions combined with the ever more politicized nature of just about everything can only mean that the 21st century is going to be the 20th on steroids.

PS: i for one start to exhibit an unhealthy curiosity wrt. gun confiscation, because even though i shouldn't, i'd probably feel somewhat delighted if first, 99% of the blowhards who claim one could can take their weapons 'from their dead, cold hands' just folded and turned them in and later see all the do-good pie-in the sky gun grabber crowd pale with fear when it's finally time to graduate from 'buffalo university' like all good cattle do... let's face it, if it's seemingly inevitable anyway and no-one ever listened, why should anyone feel bad about it?



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 03:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by exponent
..
Once again you point out that a grown man could kill only 8 children in a murderous rage, but a child managed to kill 26 children and adults in the US. Why? Because the Chinese man couldn't get a gun.



Q: do all shootings involve 20 deaths or more? nope, in fact most do not, how is the actual number of deaths relevant to the opportunity itself? you could state that firearms will worsen the outcome, but in doing so you'd cede a lot of ground, because you'd have to plausibly demonstrate by how much, at which point you'll have to be explain (at some point you will, that's for sure) why you'd wish to penalize hundreds of millions of people for the acts of lone gunmen for dubious gain, more on that later. At the same time, you wouldn't do anything to reduce un-personal hazards (the pool again) that are much more likely to kill children?

i'll tell you why, because garnering emotion just fails without a perpetrator whose name you can plaster all across media and web, that's why

what if some of those wackos didn't rob their own mother's weapons but some security guard's? do you believe these people never visit the john where they are going to be at a slight disadvantage and likely lose a fight? then what? i assume you aren't going to ban those, are you?

PS: Britain is such a peaceful place, right, that makes it all moot
but has their gun ban (or Australia) helped curb violent crime?

i'll start with: www.ncpa.org...
edit on 2012.12.17 by Long Lance because: link added



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 04:03 PM
link   
reply to post by Long Lance
 


Would you try and argue it hasn't curbed shootings?



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 04:10 PM
link   
reply to post by spangledbanner
 


*Buzzer* eeeeh wrong Europe and the UK do not have lower gun or violent crime since the passing of a very tyrannical gun ban.

Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.

Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.

Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.

During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.

Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.

Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.

Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

The weekend following the shooting, the Denver Post reported that the the Colorado Bureau of Investigation approved background checks for 2,887 people to purchase a firearm; a 43 percent increase over just the previous weekend, and a 39 percent increase over the first weekend in July.

All of America sees similar spikes in gun purchases after such violent tragedies.

But if guns are so dangerous, why then do ordinary people purchase make gun purchases immediately after the senseless murders of innocents?

A Harvard study found that that the oft-repeated notion that more guns in the hands of ordinary citizens means more deaths and that fewer guns, therefore, mean fewer deaths, is full of ”misconceptions and factual error, and focus on comparisons that are unrepresentative.”

After Russia forced a complete disarmament of its people in the 1960-1970′s, the Harvard study showed that “manifest success in keeping its people disarmed did not prevent the Soviet Union from having far and away the highest murder rate in the developed world. In the 1960s and early 1970s, the gun‐less Soviet Union’s murder rates paralleled or generally exceeded those of gun‐ridden America. While American rates stabilized and then steeply declined, however, Russian murder increased so drastically that by the early 1990s the Russian rate was three times higher than that of the United States. Between 1998‐2004 (the latest figure available for Russia), Russian murder rates were nearly four times higher than American rates. Similar murder rates also characterize the Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and various other now‐independent European nations of the former U.S.S.R.”

Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland’s murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe.

The Harvard researchers found that the comparison of “homicide and suicide mortality data for thirty‐six nations, including the United States, for the period 1990–1995” to gun ownership levels showed “no significant (at the 5 percent level) association between gun ownership levels and the total homicide rate.” Consistent with this is a later European study of data from 21 nations in which “no significant correlations [of gun ownership levels] with total suicide or homicide rates were found.”

The determinants of murder and suicide are social, economic, and cultural factors, not the prevalence of available weaponry. But this is an uncomfortable subject for politicians who avoid discussions of personal responsibility.

Gun ownership does not drive someone to kill himself, or others.

“In this connection, recall that the American jurisdictions which have the highest violent crime rates are precisely those with the most stringent gun controls,” the Harvard researchers reported.

There is also a pattern of violence in most violent crimes. Ninety percent of adult murderers have adult criminal records, with an average adult criminal career of six years or more, including four major adult felony arrests. We need to take the recidivist out of society, rather than removing the guns. It is the social, economic, and cultural factors, which determine the criminal mind, and not the weapon of choice.

Sources : Statistics pulled from websites doing a Google.com search.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 04:23 PM
link   
I do however believe that all people who would like to own a gun should be required to do some type of psych evaluation and mental health history form.

I still do not believe that this will necessarily have an effect on violent crime based on the statistics that I just posted.

I personally have seen a person selling guns out of the trunk of their car to a next door neighbor of mine in Hernando, MS. This was years ago and I no longer live there. However the point is even in podunk nowheresville. THERE IS A BLACK MARKET FOR GUNS!!!! DUH. So if you implement stricter gun laws or ban them completely, or even make ammo hard to obtain all people will do is go somewhere it is legal, buy it and transport it back to where they want or they will get it illegally altogether. Prohibition of alcohol should have made that very clear. If people want something they will get it. And if it's hard for law abiding citizens to get then the criminals who don't care about the law will still buy it from the trunk and rob your butt at gunpoint. Only now there's nothing you can do about it. Except hope and pray that the boys in black and blue will protect you. YEAH RIGHT!!! Most cops have a superiority complex and are too worried about their paychecks, pension, and quotas to solve half of what they are given. Good luck.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 04:35 PM
link   
reply to post by steve1709
 


Actually, the ban on fully automatic weapons is a federal law. My state has some of the most lax in the nation. In many states, you can't even have one in your home.



posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 05:07 PM
link   
There was a time I was thinking it was important to own a gun because of the intensity in my life of the aliens from the Moon presence now I must recognize that owning a gun should be controlled!!!
As I can't post in the 9/11 forums I want to say this here: we all know it wasn't normal that the towers collapsed after the attacks. Well since this year and after my 10 years of living the Moon I know now it was done by one of the dreadful queens of the Moon!!! Yes, the 9/11/01 attacks have been caused by the aliens that even the Devil fears!!! I put only affirmations in my posts because of my experience with the aliens from the Moon!!! Ten years though and no scientist, no Army have heard, seen or detected it till now!!! Simply



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 12:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by MagicWand67
reply to post by EarthlingSpelunker
 


AK-47's are already illegal.

Try to contribute something besides your ignorance.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! You'll disturb the aim of my semiautomatic .223-caliber rifle...



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 01:21 AM
link   
It is absurd to think I'm expected to trust that some gun toting stranger will exercise sensibility at all time! I do not know you. I do not trust you. I do not believe that you are trained well enough to make a situation anything but worse. You do not have my permission to take my life in your hands by carrying a gun in my presence. That violates MY rights to safety and liberty.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 01:33 AM
link   

Originally posted by Long Lance

Originally posted by exponent
..
Once again you point out that a grown man could kill only 8 children in a murderous rage, but a child managed to kill 26 children and adults in the US. Why? Because the Chinese man couldn't get a gun.



Q: do all shootings involve 20 deaths or more? nope, in fact most do not, how is the actual number of deaths relevant to the opportunity itself? you could state that firearms will worsen the outcome, but in doing so you'd cede a lot of ground, because you'd have to plausibly demonstrate by how much, at which point you'll have to be explain (at some point you will, that's for sure) why you'd wish to penalize hundreds of millions of people for the acts of lone gunmen for dubious gain, more on that later. At the same time, you wouldn't do anything to reduce un-personal hazards (the pool again) that are much more likely to kill children?

i'll tell you why, because garnering emotion just fails without a perpetrator whose name you can plaster all across media and web, that's why

what if some of those wackos didn't rob their own mother's weapons but some security guard's? do you believe these people never visit the john where they are going to be at a slight disadvantage and likely lose a fight? then what? i assume you aren't going to ban those, are you?

PS: Britain is such a peaceful place, right, that makes it all moot
but has their gun ban (or Australia) helped curb violent crime?

i'll start with: www.ncpa.org...
edit on 2012.12.17 by Long Lance because: link added


I have no problem penalizing millions of people it it will keep me safe. It's is being increasingly clear that there is NO such thing as a responsible gun owner.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 01:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by AussieDingus
 


guns yes,

Not automatic weapons that you can purchase on the street corner.

the law was written in a very different time. No amount of automatic weapons will stop the United States Govenrment turning curropt, because doing something 'hitler' style is old school. They simply rob your institutions, addict you all to debt, Tv and chemically enhanced food then sit back and watch you dumb yourselves to a level that you never quesiton the government.

Guns didnt save america when they did that (Bush)... so what makes you think they will help now ?



Then why is it legal for gun manufacturers to make and sell these fully automatic guns ? Its no different to a Government talking about the dangers and evils of smoking ciggarettes, but then allowing tobacco companies to make and sell, and be TAXED, while then taking the moral high ground about its dangers to society. If its so dangerous, then WHY allow it to be made and sold ?

Yes the laws were written at a different time, but the point being missed is that a corrupt governemnt can happen at ANY time, and that ownership of guns was written in for that very reason with no time frame given as to when its classed as "out of date". The contents of the Bible could easily be dismissed too as it was written in another time, but plenty of people still swear by what is written in it. Thats because of the overall message, not the time frame of the message.

The reason guns didn't help under Bush, was because the average American has mis-interpreted why they can have a gun. Its not just about owning a gun just because a piece of paper says you can, its about owning a gun, and perhaps using it as a LAST RESORT against a corrupt government. Add to this the examples you gave about how we are dumbed down and then you'll understand why the average person doesn't know why they can have a gun or what its supposed to be used for.





new topics

top topics



 
129
<< 18  19  20    22  23  24 >>

log in

join