Armed teachers in schools?

Originally posted by SweetChild
Absolutely NOT! Schools are to educate! How about some serious control laws and better mental health care? How about banning semi automatic weapons? How about making guns hard to get?

I can agree with the better mental health care and with getting rid of semi-automatic weapons, but I don't want them to get rid of guns for hunting or of handguns for protection provided the mental health is in good condition. Banning guns only gets rid of legal guns, not the illegal ones. They're already illegal, banning isn't going to stop them.
It's important to keep legal guns with competent owners to protect themselves and everyone else from the illegal guns with criminal or crazy owners.

reply to post by truthseeker1984


I disagree with it being required, but I support it being optional with mental health followups on a regular basis.

If someone is an ex military, ex cop, competition shooter, seasoned hunter, or the like. If someone that is fully comfortable with carrying a gun during their normal duties. And if they are screened and shown to be mentally sound. Then they should be allowed to carry while on school.

That applies to all adult employees on school grounds. Principle, VP, teachers, janitorial staff, and ground keepers.

Janitorial staff would be best suited for the situation. They are not preoccupied taking care of students most of the day. If they see something suspicious, then they have enough flexibility to investigate, and keep watch on a developing situation.

Originally posted by Mr Tranny
If someone is an ex military, ex cop, competition shooter, seasoned hunter, or the like. If someone that is fully comfortable with carrying a gun during their normal duties. And if they are screened and shown to be mentally sound. Then they should be allowed to carry while on school.

That applies to all adult employees on school grounds. Principle, VP, teachers, janitorial staff, and ground keepers.

Janitorial staff would be best suited for the situation. They are not preoccupied taking care of students most of the day. If they see something suspicious, then they have enough flexibility to investigate, and keep watch on a developing situation.

edit on 14-12-2012 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)

Janitorial staff would be good, but usually there is only one or two in an elementary school. Well, at least there was when I was in school. Now that I think about it, I'm sure there are probably 10 or 15 nowadays in public schools, being government institutions and all. Probably 3 levels of custodial management in every school.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by Mr Tranny
If someone is an ex military, ex cop, competition shooter, seasoned hunter, or the like. If someone that is fully comfortable with carrying a gun during their normal duties. And if they are screened and shown to be mentally sound. Then they should be allowed to carry while on school.

That applies to all adult employees on school grounds. Principle, VP, teachers, janitorial staff, and ground keepers.

Janitorial staff would be best suited for the situation. They are not preoccupied taking care of students most of the day. If they see something suspicious, then they have enough flexibility to investigate, and keep watch on a developing situation.

edit on 14-12-2012 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)

Janitorial staff would be good, but usually there is only one or two in an elementary school. Well, at least there was when I was in school. Now that I think about it, I'm sure there are probably 10 or 15 nowadays in public schools, being government institutions and all. Probably 3 levels of custodial management in every school.

No, they're still the peons along with the teachers and cooks. The administration is heavily padded though.

reply to post by NinjaKitteh


That sounds about right.

Making it a requirement is unnecessary - just take away the silly zero tolerance no weapons zone stipulation and allow the already existing process for the issuance of a CCW permit to be allowed at the workplace.

Once a person is properly vetted to and granted a license to concealed carry it should be without stipulations in all areas. I mean what is the point of the vetting process if it is not to be valid in every location?

The whole point of the background check and process is to ensure the person being granted the license has had the training in firearm safety and doesn't represent undue risk.

I mean am I suddenly more likely to go postal in a school/courthouse/government building than elsewhere after the issuance of the license?

The license is issued through competent legal authority yet a business owner can just decide - no way not here...

With regard to schools (or any workplace for that matter) no one needs to know which teachers are packing and which are not - the doubt would be a good thing.

I ran the statistics for our State of Missouri. There are 155K active CCW permits. About 5.9 million people so that is give or take one license for every 38 people.

Pretty good odds here that the person you meet is armed. However, we all know where to go to make sure that those odds decrease. A school, a government building, or a business with a no-weapons sign.

reply to post by SweetChild
name one good way of getting rid of all guns, not just privately owned ones, but of the police and mil and every nation. For as long as they are here , there are them... that will use them and get them for all the wrong reasons.

Originally posted by Slade88green
Should America train and arm teachers so they can better defend our children from crimes such as today's school shooting? School shootings are not just an American problem. Many countries suffer from school violence. Some have adopted policies to stop that violence. Israel in the 1970's started arming teachers aids with semi-auto firearms. School violence is non existent in Israel. Thailand adopted this policy in 2004. School violence has dropped drastically in Thailand. Germany is considering adopting the policy as well to quell violence at their schools.
Something must be done to protect our children. Those that would say make guns illegal...criminals don't obey the laws. I vote yes to training and arming teachers.

Why don't we add more guns to the equation to quell violence. What a top-notch idea.

Why doesn't America reform it's goddamn gun laws?? No need to go the whole hog and make firearm possession "illegal", as you say. Rather, implement a stricter grasp on firearm possession laws and maybe you'll see a positive change. If you want a gun and you're planning to kill someone, then you'll most likely find a way to acquire one. However, making this process more difficult might actually aid in suppressing deaths caused by firearms. As one example, in the 18 years before Australia's gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in the country, and none in the subsequent years to follow.
More stats here - Australia's 1996 gun law reforms

The reality is simple: every country struggles with madmen and ideologues with guns, and every country—Canada, Norway, Britain—has had a gun massacre once, or twice. Then people act to stop them, and they do—as over the past few years has happened in Australia. Only in America are gun massacres of this kind routine, expectable, and certain to continue.

Make sure that guns designed for no reason save to kill people are freely available to anyone who wants one—and that is, and remains, the essential American condition—and then be shocked when children are killed.

How does one argue with someone convinced that the routine massacre of our children is the price we must pay for our freedom to have guns, or rather to have guns that make us feel free? You can only shake your head and maybe cry a little.

The New Yorker - One More Massacre

Sure, train school teachers to effectively handle rowdy or violent class room/school yard situations. It will be a benefit to them. But don't mask further firearm possession as a positive force. Violence begets violence.
Not to mention that if I was the student of a teacher how was in the possession of a firearm on school property and was even a little under confident with handeling one, or a little over confident, I would be on edge all day, everyday, that the slightest thing could set them off. There are so many things that could go wrong. It's a recipe for disaster.

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by SweetChild

 

name one good way of getting rid of all guns, not just privately owned ones, but of the police and mil and every nation. For as long as they are here , there are them... that will use them and get them for all the wrong reasons.

You want a way to get rid of guns? Make them illegal to sell. Ban gun shows and ban ammo. But of course some jackass republican will want to grandfather in existing gun owners... so make gun owners personally responsible if their gun is stolen and used in a crime, accessory to murder or involuntary manslaughter and do jail time. That's a start.

The rest of comment made no sense.

Violence begets violence.

Violence happens regardless of violence. Do you think that the children murdered today by a psycho that could not legally own a fire arm was prompted by violence. Perhaps a little violence by an armed teacher could have stopped the deaths of so many.

On another note Michigan just passed a law letting people with conceal carry permits to apply for an extended permit, take additional training and range time, to carry concealed on school grounds and churches. Open carry is still prohibited.

reply to post by SweetChild

That argument has been made many times before on this website. Let me do a basic recap of why it won't work.

One bench mill.
Three chunks of metal.
A few wheel weights.
Some miscellaneous stuff from the hardware store.
You would end up with something just as deadly that is capable of firing several rounds between reloading.
.........
If you forgo the bench mill and just buy your parts at the hardware store, you can fashion a perfectly deadly, muzzle loading single shot shotgun.
.........
They even have muzzle loaders that don’t even need primers anymore. Just put the powder in, then bullet, and fire.
........
In the UK, you constantly hear about people illegally manufacturing firearms.
........
You can’t put the magic genie back in the bottle.
........
Any attempt to restrict legal gun ownership just means that the law abiding will be easy prey, like those in the school.

reply to post by SweetChild


Your gun was stolen and used in a crime, I sentence you to 10 years in prison, I know your the victim of a crime that you couldn't have stopped, but that doesn't matter.
yeah, there is a solution.

You Americans amaze me all day I've been hearing and reading more police at schools,give teachers guns the answer more guns,more guns,more guns.This guy had a 15 round glock and a 30 round .223 bushmaster that shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger and you guys want Mrs Marple the elementary teacher untrained in close quarters combat to nuetralise this threat with her 38 special.

Your delusional until you get military grade weapons out of civilian hands this will happen again,again and again,my country did it in 1998 we haven't had a mass shooting since.

Originally posted by Slade88green
reply to post by SweetChild

 

Your gun was stolen and used in a crime, I sentence you to 10 years in prison, I know your the victim of a crime that you couldn't have stopped, but that doesn't matter.

yeah, there is a solution.

edit on 15-12-2012 by Slade88green because: spelling error

Absolutely! If gun owners want to beat their chest about how responsible they are, then put up or shut up. You make it available to be stolen, then you're not a responsible gun owner, now are you?

reply to post by anglodemonicmatrix


These are not military grade weapons, just standard. And the person using them was not allowed to use them. It didn't help.
Quick question, you say you haven't had a school gun massacre since the gun ban took effect. Did you have any school gun massacres before it took effect?

Getting rid of guns doesn't work either. Read the morning news about the 20 kids attacked with a knife in China. China has been having a string of knife attacks at schools. China has had a huge rash of knife attacks at schools.

reply to post by SweetChild


More people die by cars every year then by guns. Lets make cars illegal and jail people that have their cars stolen because they aren't responsible car owners.

What will happen, and should happen, is there will be one or more armed State Police assigned to each and every school, both public and private. Many of the private already have a police force, but they have nothing like the training and authority of a State Policeman/Policewoman.

It is going to happen now, and it about freekin time.

reply to post by charlyv


I highly doubt police will be added to schools. Unfortunately police have been being laid off due to lack of funds all over the nation. Towns and states simply cant afford to put police in every school.

People have strayed from being a polite society to one of near anarchy. No one says hi to their neighbors, most don't even know their neighbors names. People don't look each other in the face while walking down the street. If you do, the people that you look at give you dirty looks. People need to adopt the caring standard that has been lost for so long. Help your fellow man. How many of you have seen someone broken down on the side of the road and just passed by like everyone else. I have even seen people flip people off that were broken down for slowing down traffic. More laws will not fix the problems, compassion and understanding still have a chance. I know not much of a chance, but something has to give.

Originally posted by Slade88green

Violence begets violence.

Violence happens regardless of violence. Do you think that the children murdered today by a psycho that could not legally own a fire arm was prompted by violence. Perhaps a little violence by an armed teacher could have stopped the deaths of so many.

On another note Michigan just passed a law letting people with conceal carry permits to apply for an extended permit, take additional training and range time, to carry concealed on school grounds and churches. Open carry is still prohibited.


You're right, psychos will do what they want and violence will happen regardless. What that quote is essentially alluding to is that by encouraging increased firearms usage, more violence and more problems can only arise. There is so much wrong with having school teachers carry guns around, "just in case" a crazed gunman or student starts firing on school grounds. Handing out more guns is not solving the core problem, it's not getting to the crux of the matter. By limiting firearms possession, it is not unreasonable to think that mass shootings will decrease. It has been evidenced in at least Australia, who has some of the strictest gun laws in the world, but surely in other areas as well.