December 21st, 2012 11:11am GMT - Snapshot from Earth and Sun.

In the interim, while we ponder these things and our place in the galaxy and cosmos, including ideas of origns and destinies, and the occurance of life itself as a cosmological evolutionary process in time and space, I would like to offer you the following thread I started called

Life is a Vortex, not just a Circle

I hope you like it.

Cheers, and Happy New Age! (glassing clinking)

NAM

Edit: Changed my mind, it was a giveaway. Sorry.

Later.

reply to post by dodgygeeza


This is the new ATS where we can't discuss conspiracy theories or off the wall subjects without COLLEGE EDUCATED KIDS coming along and proving their superior linear knowledge they read from a book by an author they never met.

Off subject sorry.

Might as well drive them right over the edge..

Earth Moon Sun Relationship by Superintelligent Design

Originally posted by homeslice
superintelligent design huh?

Absolutely, yes.

Here's but the most brief of introductions regarding the Earth Moon Sun relationship as of intelligent design origin, and no the strong anthropic principal doesn't render the data meaningless.


Eclipse

Squaring the Circle with the Earth and Moon (Coincidence?)

Solstice and Perihelion
Bear in mind that the moon places the earth on a perfect tilt and in perfect equillibrium balancing in favor of life and that without it's influence, the appearance of liquid water over 90% of the planet would be all but impossible and neither would the earth retains its seasonable annual relationship with the sun ie: the cycle of life on earth.


There's a LOT more to it than this which points a rather sturdy finger at intelligent design, which would make for a thread of its own but this is a start anyway.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
In the interim, while we ponder these things and our place in the galaxy and cosmos, including ideas of origns and destinies, and the occurance of life itself as a cosmological evolutionary process in time and space, I would like to offer you the following thread I started called

Life is a Vortex, not just a Circle

I hope you like it.

Cheers, and Happy New Age! (glassing clinking)

NAM

For those of you who investigated this thread, but with the utmost contempt, prior to investigation..

Gotcha!


Merry Christmas and Happy New Age one and all!

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan

The distance of the Earth from the Sun varies, depending on the time of year, from 152,097,701 km to 147,098,074km, with an average of 149,597,887.5 km.

In the past the Moon was closer to Earth than it is now and in the future it will be farther away but right now the distance of the Moon from Earth varies, depending on the time of the month, from 364,397 km to 406,731 km, with an average of 384,748 km.

So the ratio of the two orbits varies from 417 to 361, with an average of 388. So yes, sometimes the ratio is the same as the ratio in sizes but most of the time it is not. This can be seen in solar eclipses.




The Moon shows one face to Earth because it is tidally locked, just as all of the larger Moons in the Solar System are.

Squaring the Circle with the Earth and Moon

What is the definition of squaring the circle?

It is the challenge of constructing a square with the same area as a given circle

en.wikipedia.org...
Area of the disk of the Moon/Earth circle.
pi*5040^2 = 79,801,480 square miles
Area of a square of Earth's diameter:
7920^2 = 62,726,400 square miles

There is no squaring of the circle with the Earth and Moon.

Bear in mind that the moon places the earth on a perfect tilt and in perfect equillibrium balancing in favor of life and that without it's influence, the appearance of liquid water over 90% of the planet would be all but impossible and neither would the earth retains its seasonable annual relationship with the sun ie: the cycle of life on earth.

Bear in mind that if conditions on Earth were different than they were, evolution would have followed a different path or none at all.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

The distance of the Earth from the Sun varies, depending on the time of year, from 152,097,701 km to 147,098,074km, with an average of 149,597,887.5 km.

In the past the Moon was closer to Earth than it is now and in the future it will be farther away but right now the distance of the Moon from Earth varies, depending on the time of the month, from 364,397 km to 406,731 km, with an average of 384,748 km.

So the ratio of the two orbits varies from 417 to 361, with an average of 388. So yes, sometimes the ratio is the same as the ratio in sizes but most of the time it is not. This can be seen in solar eclipses.

 

The Moon shows one face to Earth because it is tidally locked, just as all of the larger Moons in the Solar System are.

 

Squaring the Circle with the Earth and Moon

What is the definition of squaring the circle?

It is the challenge of constructing a square with the same area as a given circle

en.wikipedia.org...
Area of the disk of the Moon:
pi*1080^2 = 3,664,354 square miles
Area of a square of Earth's diameter:
7920^2 = 62,726,400 square miles

There is no squaring of the circle with the Earth and Moon.

 

Bear in mind that the moon places the earth on a perfect tilt and in perfect equillibrium balancing in favor of life and that without it's influence, the appearance of liquid water over 90% of the planet would be all but impossible and neither would the earth retains its seasonable annual relationship with the sun ie: the cycle of life on earth.

Bear in mind that if conditions on Earth were different than they were, evolution would have followed a different path or none at all.

Wasn't talking about the ratio of the orbits.

Didn't mention tidal locking, which occurs with numerous other moons in our solar system.

Aware that the moon used to be closer, and moves away at about 3cm/yr.

Squaring of the circle as depicted was a geometrical transformation based on relative proportion of the two circles, not a mathematical squaring of areas.

Strong anthropic principal does not render the data meaningless.

You didn't mention the coincidence of the perfect solar eclipse at this moment in evolutionary history where there's a human observer to witness it, by coincidence.

As an add on, another intriguing aspect of the moon earth sun relationship, aside from the perfect eclipse of the sun (right now in earth evolution) phenomenon, and the way that the moon rises at night as the "lessor light" is how the moon mimics the sun at opposite solstices, rising at the opposite solstice to the sun ie: winter/summer, a strange coincidental factor that is also something that is only significant from the POV of an earth-based observer.

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by dodgygeeza

 

This is the new ATS where we can't discuss conspiracy theories or off the wall subjects without COLLEGE EDUCATED KIDS coming along and proving their superior linear knowledge they read from a book by an author they never met.

Off subject sorry.

As far as I'm concerned, the spirit of scientifically-minded curiosity that leads to inquiry and eventual discovery cannot me monopolized nor is it or should it be permitted, to reside exclusively in the domain and purview of the cynic.

It's us "crazy people" (by their standards) who ultimately move things in favor of new ideas and new conceptions of reality never before considered from the POV of the old paradigms.

No one can oppress that or trample on it with their spouted facts intended to do nothing but simply win every argument, and to be right relative to another person's wrong while operating under the guise of setting the record straight.


"There is a principal which serves as a bar against all arguments and proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man (or woman) in everlasting ignorance. That principal is called - contempt, prior to investigation."
~ Herbert Spencer, Scientist.

reply to post by eriktheawful

Originally posted by eriktheawful
Again: could we please use the correct terminology? The Galactic Plane is NOT the same thing as the Galactic Equator.

One is 1,000 light years thick, the other is an imaginary plane with no thickness:

Yes, but isn't the Galactic Plane, since it runs through the Galaxy's area of greatest mass, not an approximation of the center of the Galactic Equator? or is it out of alignment with the approximate middle of the Galactic Equator (I could be wrong?)?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Wasn't talking about the ratio of the orbits.

Yes it is. The video is talking about the ratio between the orbits and the sizes. As was I. The video claims the ratio between the orbits is 395:1 (at the 0:31 timestamp). It is not. It varies between 417 and 361 with an average of 388.

Didn't mention tidal locking, which occurs with numerous other moons in our solar system.

Right. It didn't mention tidal locking because that would indicate there is nothing particularly special about the fact that the Moon shows only one side to Earth (at 2:23). Tidal locking is the reason the Moon shows only one side to Earth.

Squaring of the circle as depicted was a geometrical transformation based on relative proportion of the two circles, not a mathematical squaring of areas.

Then it is not squaring of the circle. Can you explain the real significance for me?

Strong anthropic principal does not render the data meaningless.

Distorting and lying about it does.

You didn't mention the coincidence of the perfect solar eclipse at this moment in evolutionary history where there's a human observer to witness it, by coincidence.

So what, what's wrong with coincidence? But as I pointed out, some eclipses are "perfect" but most are not. Anyway, the current rate of movement puts the Moon about 50 miles closer to Earth 2 million years ago. That's much less than the current eccentricity of the orbit. There were eclipses then just as there are now, with no people to see them.

and the way that the moon rises at night as the "lessor light" is how the moon mimics the sun at opposite solstices, rising at the opposite solstice to the sun ie: winter/summer

Yes, the Moon reflects sunlight (poorly) so it is not as bright as the Sun. What do you mean "rising at the opposite solstice to the Sun"? The Moon rises every day.

Originally posted by Phage
What do you mean "rising at the opposite solstice to the Sun"? The Moon rises every day.

edit on 12/15/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Yes, if you record both the Winter and Summer solstices from a particular location, then for the Winter Solstice of the sun, the moon will rise at the Summer Solstice position on the horizon, and vice versa, which is strange given that the Earth revolves around the sun, and the moon the Earth. Just another coincidence I guess.

Originally posted by Phage
So what, what's wrong with coincidence? But as I pointed out, some eclipses are "perfect" but most are not. Anyway, the current rate of movement puts the Moon about 50 miles closer to Earth 2 million years ago. That's much less than the current eccentricity of the orbit. There were eclipses then just as there are now, with no people to see them.

Then, the moon would have completely blotted out the sun, so while still an eclipse not one as now, whereby the circumference of the moon matches that of the sun, yes all but perfectly (during a full eclipse) except for an annular eclipse, which are fairly rare and far and few between.

Re: Squaring of the circle with the moon and earth - take a look at the diagram, and google around, I shouldn't have to explain it. It's a geometrical relationship between the ratio of both circumferences and the only one by which such a geometrical transformation is possible. When we add in the eclipse matching, at the very least we can begin to see that it (the earth moon sun relationship) is a VERY unique cosmological configuration ie: where else might you find a highly evolved ten fingered bipedal sentient observer looking up (with a filter) to witness their single giant moon perfectly eclipse their sun, let alone a moon-planet relationship allowing for the same squaring of the circle in terms of ratio and proportion?

P.S. Just to clarify, in my last post the sentences should have started with >I

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I fully agree. Let's see what other predictions and foretelling we can make.

reply to post by ProperlyErrant

Yeah, I wish BrokenAngelWings33 might come back with some more results from her software inquiries and depictions along the lines I requested here it COULD prove interesting.. here's hoping.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I am going to do some more pictures for you, they will all be when the Sun is on the Galactic plane, which is 2 times a year from our perspective on Earth.

Thank you very much!

I was wondering., would it be possible to do one from Earth through Sirius, just to check (nothing but curiosity based on all the conflicting reports), and if your software allows it, from Sirius to our sun.

Another interesting one, would be from the moon through earth at the moment of solstice, just to see what the Moon Earth Sun relationship is doing from the Moon-Earth's perspective and to which constellation it points at, through it's direct line to Earth. There was another such significant "pointing" by the moon at another moment of time long ago, but that's another thread.

There's some speculation that Sirius A-B might be a companion star to other local stars, including our sun, and the data's still out on that btw regardless of what some of the astronomers here are saying (while noting however that there is no and can be no such relationship with the star Alcyone, an internet myth cooked up by the "new agers" (I'm not that kind of "new age").

And from the research I've done, the moon is always highly integral - so it would be VERY interesting to see what it's pointing towards and in particular which constellation, at the moment of the solstice, even if only as a point of great curiosity at least for moi.

Thanks so much for your help BrokenAngelWings33. It's like this is "our" thread in a way because without the pics it didn't happen or isn't soon to happen, and no, nothing's going to like HAPPEN happen, no one's saying that! (Although we never know what we might run into or through at any point in our travels through the galaxy).

But cycles and evolutionary processes are very very much of interest to me, big time and this stuff is just so fascinating. Thanks again for all your help dear, we really appreciate it, it's wonderful.

Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Yes, if you record both the Winter and Summer solstices from a particular location, then for the Winter Solstice of the sun, the moon will rise at the Summer Solstice position on the horizon, and vice versa, which is strange given that the Earth revolves around the sun, and the moon the Earth. Just another coincidence I guess.

Where do you get this stuff? It's just wrong.
From Greenwich (it doesn't matter where you are, you'll get the same sort of results).

Azimuth of Moonrise on 6/20/2012: 56º
Azimuth of Sunrise on 12/21/2012: 128º
Azimuth of Moonrise on 6/21/2013: 123º

Azimuth of Moonrise on 6/20/2010: 109º
Azimuth of Sunrise on 12/21/2010: 128º
Azimuth of Moonrise on 6/21/2013: A little tricky because the Moon rises just before midnight on the 20th at 101º and on the 22nd it's at 93º.

www.timeanddate.com...

Then, the moon would have completely blotted out the sun, so while still an eclipse not one as now, whereby the circumference of the moon matches that of the sun, yes all but perfectly (during a full eclipse) except for an annular eclipse, which are fairly rare and far and few between.

No.
50 miles is not significant. The eccentricity of moon's orbit causes its distance from Earth to vary by 26,000 miles each month.
Annular eclipses are not rare.
eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov...

I shouldn't have to explain it.

Or, you can't.

reply to post by Phage

Sorry I meant setting point on the horizon, not rising, my bad.

So if you were to stand on a hilltop or an open plain and film the sun at midwinter sunset (it's most southerly point on the horizon), at the spring equinox, again at midsummer and again at the autumn equinox. Then on those same dates film the moon SETTING and you will see that they both go down at the same point on the horizon at the equinoxes (March 21st and September 21st) but the moon will have the opposite setting point to the Sun at solstices in December and June.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Sorry I meant setting point on the horizon, not rising, my bad.

You should try to get things straight in your own head before you try to explain them to someone else. So now you've brought the equinoxes into it where before you were just talking about the solstices. And you are still wrong.

Then on those same dates film the moon SETTING and you will see that they both go down at the same point on the horizon at the equinoxes

The Moon sometimes (rarely) sets at the same azimuth as the Sun because its orbit is tilted in relation to the ecliptic. But it can happen at any time of year; equinox, solstice, or any other time.

but the moon will have the opposite setting point to the Sun at solstices in December and June.

what do you mean "opposite setting point to the Sun"? You mean it sets in the east?

reply to post by Phage

You're the expert, why not check it, and give us the data to see for ourselves instead of just saying I'm wrong. Let's have it, in the spirit of scientific inquiry. You say it can happen at any time during the year, but does it always happen at those specific times?

Originally posted by Phage

but the moon will have the opposite setting point to the Sun at solstices in December and June.

what do you mean "opposite setting point to the Sun"? You mean it sets in the east?

edit on 12/15/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

No I mean sets at the opposite December and June points on the horizon to that of the sun.

To clarify, sets at the same place for the equinoxes, moon and sun, but at the solstices, as I just stated above.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

That's the point.
I want to check it but I can't make any sense out of what you are saying.

Do the Sun and Moon set at the same point of the horizon on the equinoxes? No. Not often but maybe once in a great while.