Americans, Isn't It Time You Relinquished Your Weapons.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by Ismellarat

 

After reading this absolutely harrow story. I may be coming round to the idea of owning a gun.

I have to have a good long think about this before I reply any further.

ALS

Star-not because you may change your mind ,but because you are willing to reevaluate your conclusion.
In any issue that we have a strong emotional attachment to,its very difficult to step back and rethink.
Whichever way you conclude,our opinions here will not change how the political event unfolds,but I truly admire
people who can say what you just did.
That is what this site is about in my opinion

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
Because some sicko shoots people I should hand over my guns?
Whatever.
Here read this: pjmedia.com...
"Crime in the UK is exploding at an alarming rate. According to recently released statistics, it’s the most violent place in the European Union. And those who parry that “it’s not as bad as the U.S.” — as so many do when talking crime statistics — are correct. The UK is worse."

I wouldn't trust that article and I'd love to see how it backs up that claim - basically I'm calling it a BS post for whatever agenda it wants to push. What is interesting is the total lack of actual knowledge about UK law captured in the comments........

" 5. A Concealed Carry Person

The right of self defense has been declared illegal in the UK"

Errrm, not it hasn't, self defense rights have been clarified further and proved in a court of law. It's a fairly ridiculous post from a fairly ridiculous article that just looks to try and justify someones opinion.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


The only gun control that works is a well armed mob against insanity.

blimey - you U.K. folks always thinking you have it right - i wouldn't live in the u.k. even if you do give free squalene adjuvants. perhaps you should go wash the queenies little toesies - and make sure you get on camera - oh - how could you miss...you have the most cameras in the world.
Article [II]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

just like you lefties to start in right away.

sympathies and prayers to all at Sandy Hook - God bless.

Hey i got stabbed in the arm with a pencil when i was in first grade. There will always be ways to hurt others. The principal of the school i attended in PA. smacked a kid on the head with her steel ruler and he died the next day of a concussion. No jail time for her. There will always be bad people doing bad things. We can't lock everyone up in a rubber room for their own protection.

reply to post by jibajaba


"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms
each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia.
Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an
American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or
state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
-- Tench Coxe, 1788.
This should help clear up what the second amendment is referring to.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


You to mind your business.wake up fools!

Originally posted by BlackSnake

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by Ismellarat

 

After reading this absolutely harrow story. I may be coming round to the idea of owning a gun.

I have to have a good long think about this before I reply any further.

ALS

Star-not because you may change your mind ,but because you are willing to reevaluate your conclusion.
In any issue that we have a strong emotional attachment to,its very difficult to step back and rethink.
Whichever way you conclude,our opinions here will not change how the political event unfolds,but I truly admire
people who can say what you just did.
That is what this site is about in my opinion

Having had a think, I can see why guns (maybe) needed. I'm still skeptical. But I fully understand why Americans will not give them up.

ALS

I agree 100% with knowledge, he knows what he is talking about here and that is where the thread should end.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
Having had a think, I can see why guns (maybe) needed. I'm still skeptical. But I fully understand why Americans will not give them up.

ALS

Have you ever thought about idea that Americans might just love their violence? We get an ugly situation now and then, but in the end America is all about violence and the rest of the world just can’t understand that. They think it is guns and gun control is the answer, but in the end it really has nothing to do with guns.

I will NEVER give up my guns!

Here’s why…

1. I don’t trust my government. Politicians run for office for what primary reason…? Power. They want power over We the People. They want to direct and order our freedoms and liberties as they see fit. With Bush, it was the establishment of DHS – the most freedom-robbing act since FDR interred the Japanese-Americans at the beginning of WWII. With Obama, it’s the Barrycare Scheme that allows government sweeping powers to regulate our healthcare. Government monitors, regulates, or dictates practically every aspect of our lives at this point. I have no doubt that if our Founding Fathers were able to see what the Republic they formed had become today, they would promptly take to the streets demanding another Revolution.

2. Government can’t protect me. Sandy Hook is the latest example of that. A government institution itself was the site of slaughter and government was powerless to do anything about it. [1]

3. There are hundreds of millions of guns in this country. I’m one person and I own 6. It would be simply impossible for government to confiscate all the guns without triggering a civil war (that they would lose) causing hundreds of thousands or millions of civilian casualties.

4. An unarmed public is even more vulnerable to gun violence. The Norway shootings proved that.

5. We are guaranteed the Right to Bear Arms in the Second Amendment. If we allow the precedent to be set of being denied our Constitutional rights by our government, which one will be next? Speech? Due Process? The right to not incriminate ourselves? Take your pick – which right would you give up next once you no longer had the right to bear arms?

I could go on and on as to why we should never allow government to disarm us, but I think I’ve made my point so I’ll move on...

As for the Sandy Hook tragedy, the shooter was mentally disturbed and/or disabled. He should have never been allowed NEAR a firearm. That is definitely a flaw in the system that needs to be addressed. There does need to be some mechanism for background screening and maybe basic mental competency (doctor’s note…?). No matter what we do, things like this will happen once in awhile.

During the worst mass killing on US soil in our history, not a shot was fired, nor a firearm used. Still, almost 3,000 people were massacred. And in fact, one has to wonder if the pilots or even passengers had been armed, could much of that horrific event been averted… ?


[1] Had a few staff members been appropriately trained and armed this assailant could have been stopped and almost certainly lives would have been saved.

reply to post by Bodhi7


The -- U.N. and Obama - are attempting to get our guns here in the U.S.A. , it wont ever happen..
My point of view all these horrific crimes of mass assault is being promoted by the C.I.A. for Obama in order to put in Marshal Law in effect, which will result in civil unrest ,, and then ask the U.N. to assist to control the masses, which will be China & Russia too assist the U.N. & the U.S. Gov... Its a well thought out plan ,

Originally posted by lacrimaererum
reply to post by moonzoo7

 

the truth hurts.

like i said most don't seem to give a sh1t if a few dozen kids die as long as the adults get to keep their weapons.

a country of cowards that does not care about its children. sad.

This statement is the most bizzare statement I've read on this site yet.
You dare to equate our desire to keep our guns with not caring about children! You dare to call us cowards. Seems to me that without our guns and our knowledge of how to use them, Europe would still be enduring Hitler's regime.
Maybe you guys are still shamed because you just rolled over and played dead during WW2. Perhaps you are the coward. Perhaps you wouldn't lift a finger to save children. Perhaps you are jealous of our freedoms.

You don't know anything of who we are, how we think and what we stand for. Your statements clearly show your ignorance and your desire to make America the socialist craphouse that Europe is.

You don't see Americans posting such nasty comments about European countries that you see coming from lots of people across the pond. Not just Europeans but others as well.

Sorry Mods if this is too personal an attack or over the top. His/her stupid statements really chapped me.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
Now I know I'm not American and I know it's not my place to say what you should do but there has been 60 mass school shootings since the 1999 columbine shooting.

"Since the 1999 Columbine tragedy there have been sixty school shootings, double the rate seen in the previous decade. These school shootings have resulted in 181 deaths," said psychiatrist Dr Warren Steiner, of McGill University, Montreal.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

And now with the shooting at sandy hook the statistics rises to 61 shootings and (approx) 210 deaths 20 of which are young children.

Now I know your worried and I know its in the constitution to "bear arms" but surely enough is enough. We here in britain have done just fine with tight gun control. In fact I would go as far to say that it's one of the best things that's happened to Britain since the NHS.

How many more people must die because you are to proud to give up your pistols?

Remember if you relinquish your weapons so will the police (or most of).

Please America start thinking about gun control!

ALS

edit on 14-12-2012 by ALOSTSOUL because: (no reason given)

Thank you for proving my point that America needs to launch one final, last war against the British people. Really, what part of 1776 or 1812 didn't you redcoats get? Your as bad as Carthrage. Then again maybe it is poetic destiny, as America is kind of compared to Rome(because Rome was the first real Republic superpower), and the British could easily be compared to Carthage, an Empire renowned for it's navy.
--
The fact is how can we coexist with people that demand we change the way we live because they say so? Because they demand that everyone else ought to live as they do. Just keep in perspective the importance of nature when it comes to a person. The people who are demanding that the American people disarm are the descendants of the people who tried to enslave and destroy our nation. Not just America, look up what the ancestors of all the redcoats have done that are mocking our Bill of Rights, and Constitutional way of life.

These British peoples ancestors are responsible for the creation of Death Camps. They pioneered the first Concentration Camps during the Boer War. When Britain invaded the Boer Republic. A Republic that had peaceful relations with it's Zulu and other new arrivals neighbors(The natives of South Africa where a non-black race that was wiped out by a combination of disease from portuguese traders and black arrival). A Republic that didn't even have a standing army, but managed to fend off the savage redcoats for over five years until the british came up with a "final solution". They rounded up all the Boer women and children and began to starve them to death.

Look at India, British agents intentionally inflated the markets in India to make grain so expensive that the locals couldn't afford it so there was a huge surplus that the British could buy up. They did this for over a century I believe, and in the end well over 100 million people starved to death.

Then look at British barbarism on this website:

newbritishempire.site11.com...
www.opendemocracy.net...

And remember, time and time again it is the descendants of these people who often demand that Americans give up or seriously restrain the ability of Americans to defend themselves.

Heck, if you look at the Famines in the British territories(who the British stole food from the colonies so London could get fat), it is almost identical to what British agents are doing in America to secure cheap oil for Britain. Americans freeze to death and become a nation of beggars so the redcoats can crank up their heat.

Seriously, if you want to know whenever a quantitative easing type action of the Federal Reserve Corporation is about to happen, look at if the British Pound or Euro fall a little. They have to make sure the American dollar is worth less then the Euro, and the Euro has to be worth less then the pound in order to keep the supply of cheap oil flowing to the UK and EU(to a lesser extent).

Look at the sheer number of redcoats being ingrained into our society and how they are trying to be especially chummy with the American people, it is all so they can stab us in the backs and enslave us. The British want to murder us as they have butchered so many other peoples across the globe!

If you think the British changed:
"Britain was behind the 1980s massacres that left nearly 30,000 innocent civilians from Matabeleland and the Midlands dead." newbritishempire.site11.com...

reply to post by korathin


Where did I demand?

Please read the thread proper to see my conclusion.

When did ATS become filled with rude, spiteful, arogant twats?

ALS

reply to post by korathin


Your knowledge of history is somewhat vague.
The first Concentration Camps where not set up by the British, but where in fact set up by the Spanish in Cuba.
As for the war of 1812, Britain could have taken the States back if we had not been otherwise occupied in fighting Napoleon in Europe and else were. Did you forget the Redcoats burnt The White House to the ground or where you never taught that?

Gun control laws will only keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. Last I checked there was a law against murder, but people still kill each other. If a criminal wants a gun they'll get it, they're criminals after all, they don't care if it's against the law.

reply to post by ChuckNasty


I can't agree with you more.. And its true that it don't stop people killing people , If somebody flips out . It's hard to stop them to obtain weapons but in some degree , such people could be more easily be monitored because the state denied them the permit, by maybe medical records, or something else that they stand out with?

So yes don't ban the guns in the US because you can't expect to change the law that quick but start to work to a future lets say in about twenty years to reduce gun sales without permits ?

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


Do you really think that mass-murdering psychopaths give a flying sh#t if their guns are legally obtained or not?

This is such a ridiculously flawed way of thinking that it's scary. I don't own a gun, I don't care for them whatsoever. But I'm not so naive as to believe that illegalizing guns will stop psychopaths from shooting people. I live in Australia, and we outlawed most firearms after a mass shooting in Tasmania... and we still have violent gun crimes here almost weekly, if not daily.

People who wanna kill people will find ways to kill people - it is as simple as that. And as much as I hate the gung-ho hick mentality that possesses most American firearm enthusiasts... the fact is, the world would be a much safer place if everyone had guns. But whatever. The guns will be taken soon. Not for American safety, but to ensure that the rising potential for Civil War is contained. The Western Fascists are not stupid. They took plenty of notes off Adolf, and they're twisted enough to put them to use.

Welcome to Nazi Germany 2.0. It's fascinating how history repeats itself and yet we remain none the wiser

"The laws adopted by the Weimar Republic intended to disarm Nazis and Communists were sufficiently discretionary that the Nazis managed to use them against their enemies once they were in power." - Clayton Cramer

The bottom line is it won't make much of a difference. When someone wants to use a gun, they will find a gun, and they will use it. You can make it more difficult to buy them if you like... but your average psychopath doesn't care. If they can't get a gun, they'll use a knife.... but whatever. I don't have the energy to debate this topic, especially since it doesn't apply to my life since my country already has strict gun control laws. But don't be foolish - anyone who believes gun control is the answer to America's social meltdown is kidding themselves. People aren't committing public massacres because guns are easy to get ahold of. They're doing it because society is diseased. You can put a band-aid on the disease by restricting access to guns etc... but any Doctor will tell you that it's not going to make much of a difference to our Condition.

What America needs right now is Medicine, not a legal pony show. What kind of Medicine? Jesus... good question. Who knows? Not me, that's for damn sure.

That being said, these recent events are tragic, and I have no love for guns... so don't get me wrong. I'm not insensitive and I'm not a gun nut. But you cannot blame guns for a handful of individuals who have slipped over the Edge. If someone went on a stabbing spree in a mall with a big meat knife, would you be living in fear & crying for Knife Control? I think not. Indeed, there is obviously a major difference between a firearm and a blade. But it's all semantics. At the end of the day, no one will ever be safe until we address the reasons why these people are doing this - which, I'd like to point out, no one is focusing on. Not even the government.

You know why? Because they already know the answer. And it's because society is diseased... but to cure society we must first overthrow yesterday's PTB, since without our disease, they lose their influence and power leverage - hence why they are so enthusiastic about outlawing guns. It's about self-preservation of the Elitists, not America. Realistically, more people die from menial things like car accidents and cigarettes than guns. So why aren't they creating a Fear Storm around automobiles & cigarettes? Oh yeah, because they make billions off those industries.

Blah! Writing this is putting me in a foul mood, so I'm done. My point is, it won't make a difference. Mark my words. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but somebody has to do it. Gun Control is not the Answer you're looking for America. You must all dig deeper than that to find a solution.

Peace (and be safe out there)

Its not about gun control, its more about the taking control of those who suffer mental disorders.ie psychiatric. hospitals, clinics , community mental health services. Not schools