STOP For A Minute... JUST STOP

reply to post by Hefficide


People have been screaming about Obama wanting to take their guns long before this tragedy occurred and will continue to scream long after it. The reason you'll see so many more threads/posts about it is because people/politicians can and will exploit this tragedy to say guns should be banned.

This is awful but no one here ever gets teary eyed when a US drone kills children, mothers, fathers, grandparents, and destroys homes/property in the Middle East.

So when do we stop and when do we go because it's one F'd up world we live in right now.

reply to post by Hefficide

Hello Hefficide,

Well said. I am still in shock and trying to process the horror of what happened to all those little innocent children and for the school staff.

Respectfully,
yesterdaysreality

reply to post by Hefficide


Great point Heff, I've wanted to say this since hearing about this, but have been laying low due to the amount of tension this type of thing seems to cause.

I can tell you from a country that has strict gun laws, the endless debate this will garner will do nothing to either sate the loss these parents feel, or sate the gun advocates that are no doubt cocking the hammer so to speak, about to go war about their gun rights. And sadly, each time this happens, the people killed just become collateral so the debate can continue. Frankly, it is disgusting, and really shows just how much we value human life in this day and age.

If there was a ban on guns, pistols, automatic weapons, etc, it won't stop these people, just as it hasn't here. It just pushes weapons underground into the hands of criminals, who if they can't get ahold of these weapons turn to other things, and continue to commit crimes.

So really the gun vs. no gun debate is pointless either way. A guy held up a store near where I am a few days ago with a screwdriver... Yes, a run of the mill screwdriver.

In a way the polarisation of society is to blame, because we have become so accustomed to this type of thing happening, not to mention seeing endless violence on TV and in movies, that when something like this actually happens, we are numb to it if it doesn't directly affect us.

reply to post by Fr3bzY

well i really don't see the difference between kids being shot and kids starving or dieing any other way... its all sad and it should stop...but it wont

I have to agree.

I feel for these children and their families just as much as the OP does.

But what makes these people any more important or special than any other innocent victim any where else in this world?

Why don't you cry for the kids killed everyday by all the other senseless and avoidable tragedies?

To pick and choose this incident as being more important than any other is putting your own emotional agenda as the priority.

reply to post by Fr3bzY


Children are children. I would be just as sickened by someone saying poop happens when talking about killing children ANYWHERE. It is a tragedy and to act like it isn't is inhumane. Yes, this particular tragedy will be far more publicized than alot of killings, but it doesn't make it any less painful to hear about (especially if you have kids)

With you on this, Heff. I think everyone could benefit right now from some calm, reflection, unity, mourning, and good will. Very sincere *hugs* to everyone seeing this.

Peace.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
This minimalizing of the loss of life today is sickening. Yes people die everyday. Yes children die everyday. Yes tragedies happen everyday. Just because these things happen everyday doesn't mean we should shrug off what happened today. If nothing else it should make us realize that all life is sacred and as a result we should draw attention to all the tragedies in the world.

edit on 12/14/2012 by Xcalibur254 because: (no reason given)

I'll tell you what's sickening. People who think they are better than others because they know how to pretend to be emotionally distraught a little better than others. Life is a ride, Bill Hicks was right! The life of the body is NOT what's sacred, and the elevation of that life over the souls of the children (who are having a better time than any of us right now) is what bothers me about this. Attachment to this world creates suffering. Sure, you are entitled to suffer all you want, but those "poor kids" are done with their part of suffering. People like to pretend they're mourning for the children. NOPE. They're feeling sad for themselves.

You already know all this. REMEMBER.

I agree Heff with a lot of your post....healing does take time.

My heart screams to pull my 1st grader out of school, but he would wonder why. I do not want to have to take away his innocence by explaining to him why, especially with him screaming about how much he loves his school and friends

So, what do I do? What do all parents do when faced with horrific possibilities? I home school my daughter and am seriously considering this action with my son. I am thinking about pulling him out Monday for early xmas vacation, take a break and see what happens over the new year.

If I was a parent and this happened to my child, I do not think I could continue on with my own life. Total despair is the effect of a total loss of hope.

I just want to add something for people who want to dismiss this because children are killed in wars and tragedies all over the world every day...

We're all aware of that, and are disgusted by it as well, but there is a thing called "human emotion", and when something hits "closer to home", it hits us harder for real. It's only natural, if we have or know kids in grade school in the US, we relate more closely to this than we would children killed in Darfur. I guarantee you the parents in Darcur with children feel reports of children killed there more heavily than they do this incident in the US.

Should we apologize for not being robots and simply calculating each death of a child as part of the matrix of probability, instead of genuinely feeling in the way that humans feel? Absolutely not. I believe anyone who claims to feel equally for tragedies all over the world is not being emotionally honest. It's not that children in one place or situation matter any more or less, it's simply a function of how human empathy works that this hits closer to home for people who can relate more to these children than those in another part of the world.

Further, to compare a senseless act of horrific violence to a car accident, or a rare disease, etc. Is also a mistake. We don't - can't understand this, and it is a viscious, purposeful act of hate. There is a difference emotionally, despite there being no difference between value of children's lives lost.

I'm a tad late to the party

But respect to you

"Doffing cap"

Well said

The reason people can't stop for a second to mourn is the same reason these things happen in the first place...

Everyone is so paralyzed by their own selfish ego that they can't even begin to listen and realize that they and the rest of the world are crying inside.

Heffcide, you boundless source of calm and reason here on ATS, if you want a quiet little corner of ATS to have your prayers and meditation posted uninterrupted then you shall have it. … And here we are!

I have to admit I was jumping into the fray with both feet when the “Breaking News…” thread was first posted on ATS. I’d composed my flame on about page 7 when the moderators shut it down to try and instill some civility to the thread which had become an orgy of vitriol and angst so the post didn’t make it onto the thread. It’s just as well. I checked back about an hour later to find the orgy had continued out to some 40 pages as it does now. Not only that but the thread has multiplied and takes up most of the ATS front page. Whatever it is in our collective monkey-minds that cherishes the innocence of the young is expressing itself in torrents right now.

I have to say, without trepidation, that I hugged my little, just-turned-three, absolutely gorgeous granddaughter that lives with us a lot harder last night thinking about the kids in Connecticut and their families. Mere thoughts of what it would be like to lose her or her mother, my daughter, in some senseless, “random act” of violence doesn’t even begin to approach actually experiencing such an event. The mind just won’t go there.

Our daughter has just finished hammering out the details for the new rules for visitation for her daughter and the father. The thought of not having her in our home for the “over night” visitations has wrenched our hearts knowing where she’ll be going can only be described as a “hovel” for that period of time. Her safety is paramount in all of our minds. But “the law is the law”.

We live directly across from the small Elementary school of our very small town here in Texas. In the afternoons I watch the little kids go hand-in-hand down the street only a few hundred yards to the Baptist church where they wait for their parents to pick them up every week day. The sounds of the playground have not changed since it was first cleared and occupied back in “ougt seven” of the last century. Our granddaughter’s voice, we assume, will join theirs in a few years and we’ll be able to pick it out from all the rest without trying. Family is funny that way.

I can’t say I intentionally settled in our little town back when such a decision was being made. All I can remember is deciding NOT to live in a big city, having lived in Albuquerque, El Paso, Denver, Tulsa and Dallas growing up. Masses of “hoo-manity” have made me unsettled for as long as I can remember. I honestly feel sorry for those of you who have no other choice but to live in urban environments. I enjoy The Arts, libraries, museums and all the other things cities have to offer but they are an artificial environment! They are a cocoon one never escapes from. Once you have accepted your place in one you have accepted limitations. If you move to another city you find a similar location with similar limitations and the insane part is we fool ourselves into believing these limitations define our freedom. Unfortunately you are as free as one of our head of livestock at the ranch moved from one pen to another only to be sorted, cut, marked poked, prodded, vaccinated, drenched and either sold or turned out for further production. No, it’s obvious the goats and cattle don’t like it but they still come running when we shake that feed sack and corral them once again.

(If you’ve held with me to this point, congratulations!)

What I’m getting at is that we have a “herd” mentality that has crept in throughout our society since WW2. We wanted “nice things” and an easier, more peaceful way of life after blowing up the other half of the world. (In truth, we DID help them rebuild it too!) But “herds” of people have been told for generations that making our own decisions is often too complicated. We MUST turn these decisions over to those “properly equipped” to make those decisions FOR us – like accepting depreciating pieces of paper for our life savings and turning our kids over to public school systems for proper indoctrination. Life is so much more … predictable in the cities – until it’s not. And then we are left scratching our heads wondering what the Hell happened and what is this hole in our hearts doing there? After all, we’ve had an IMPLIED promise for all of our lives that things are SAFE. We can breathe easy, work, celebrate life, no worries mate!

(continued)

reply to post by Ollie769


What could have been done that would have made any difference in Connecticut, or Colorado, or Oregon? However far you want to go back the one thing that never changes is that WE give up – we call it “entrusting” - certain responsibilities to those we really don’t know. We give up our responsibilities to people who have limited themselves in protecting what we hold important, dear, those that we would willingly give our own lives for without thinking.

How and when did this happen? That’s an entire other thread in the Economics section, I’m afraid, but it’s where we are NOW and Connecticut is just the latest example of the situation we have put ourselves in. It starts with wanting m-o-r-e. We put everything we love at the foot of the alter of “wanting more” and are never satisfied with what we have. We dive into debt, both parents work rather than at least one taking care of the kids and we become fixed parts of a working machine called “society”. There is much more to it but this is close to the root of it all.

People, I am an unrepentant capitalist but we must begin to think about what we TRULY devote our lives to – and to whom we “entrust” the responsibility of the safety of those and that which we hold dear. Some responsibilities will HAVE to be taken back or we will, we DO, have no one else to blame but ourselves.

reply to post by Fr3bzY


No children anywhere should have to suffer at the hands of a demented soul but yeah it is crazy that americans get heart broken over their own children being killed but never get heart broken over the children being killed and already dead from their stupid wars... would like to say the ratio is 100,000 to 1. I have all the sympathy in the world for the children that are dead...but americans plot around like its okay to kill children just as long as you ignore it and it's not their own.

reply to post by Fr3bzY


What are you, twelve?

Just how insensitive can you be?

Most adults are crushed by this act.

reply to post by Evanzsayz


Worry about your own country. It is time americans turned to our own problems, and the rest of you worry about yours. Maybe the middle eastern mothers want to stand by and watch their children get slaughtered in the name of some stupid god, but american mothers are going to stop this insanity.

reply to post by Hefficide


Actually every post i read from you oozes of emotional instability.

Yes it is very disturbing that people quickly forget the victims and begin to defend guns.

reply to post by votan


Funny, every post I read from you seems to ooze of trollery. Yet I manage to have the decorum to try and not take the low road of pointing it out...

Must be my emotional instability.

That aside, and assuming that you don't hold a PhD in Psychiatry - thus making your opinion just that, an opinion. We are in agreement about the subject matter at hand.

reply to post by Hefficide


You made your post so vivid with your visualising of the bodies of the children. Your post touched me greatly. Already I was shocked bij the news of this shooting, but this gives it just a little extra edge...
As a European, I find the American Gun-obsession a bit strange, but you are so right that this is not the moment for this discussion!