Goodbye 2nd Amendment.

reply to post by Neojournalist


I understand what you're saying. This was, surprising to me, my first thought when the shooting was reported. Rapid succession incidents while UN small arms treaty is being introduced. The Clackamas shooting was at a mall my best friend of 40 years frequents - she wasn't there that day.

Second thought when details on the child victims was complete stunned silence that such a soulless individual (or duo) could exist. My kids get home in 15 mins. I think this is a day for big hugs when they come home safe.

reply to post by Hefficide


We have a screwed up society, that's for sure. If somehow all of humanity can sit together and simultaneously relinquish their arms than the world would be a better place. But unfortunately, in my opinion; that is beyond the grasp of the human species. We are sick, sadistic, hypocritical and selfish. And considering that some people match that description on a much more frightening level, few of us are willing to be the first to lower our arms before the other guy.

If our government did get together and find a way to address this epidemic the only reasonable measure would be stronger mental health screenings for gun owners, perhaps even annual screenings. I would be fine with that.

But capitol hill keeps using these incidents as an example for justifying a law against owning firearms entirely. Which I would also support on one condition.... That my government provide me with a guarantee that all criminals will be stripped of their firearms as well and will not have access to them in the future.

We all know that's not reasonable, so here I am.... waiting for the other guy to lower his weapon first.

reply to post by VforVendettea


So perhaps if we outlaw 'gun free zones' and allow people to defend themselves than lives could be saved.

Originally posted by Hellas

Originally posted by MysterX
People die in accidents, in deliberate attacks, by drunken drivers, by nutters with swords and guns...it's sad for those involved, but that's life.

The vast majority (it's a democracy in the USA right?) of gun owners are normal, responsible people, who either use their guns for sports or for self defense.

It's also protection against a lunatic government should one arrive on the scene and attempt to take the citizenry's rights away...those rights are being stripped away as i type...now imagine how much worse things would get, if the government wasn't the least bit apprehensive of how 300 million people WITH guns might react to being rounded up at night never to be heard from again?

Remove the protection of guns, you remove liberty..forever.

This must be one of the most ignorant post I have ever read!!

Seriously stop hittin' the moonshine!

Why? Because the founding fathers were wise enough to warn us of an over reaching government?

You obviously are very uneducated.

Originally posted by Neojournalist
reply to post by VforVendettea

 

So perhaps if we outlaw 'gun free zones' and allow people to defend themselves than lives could be saved.

Yeah more people with guns that have no buisness having them is just what we need.

reply to post by phantomjack

Why? Because the founding fathers were wise enough to warn us of an over reaching government?

You obviously are very uneducated.

I'm really looking forward to you explaining that..

reply to post by khimbar


It's a wobbler.
Both of them could describe what we are living under.

Serfdom also describes it.

reply to post by MrSpad


Giving guns to people who have no business having them? I never mentioned that and throughout this thread have stated that MORE screening is necessary. But outlawing guns is just impossible. I am certain that if guns were outlawed, it would have done nothing to prevent this morning's tragedy. Firstly, because if a man is willing to take the lives of children, he is willing to break a pesky little law like buying an underground weapon.

Secondly, don't tell me such a law would eliminate the availability of guns. One just has to observe the lack off success with taking drugs of the street to recognize law enforcement's inability to combat criminally imported goods..

Originally posted by MrSpadYeah more people with guns that have no buisness having them is just what we need.

Just what do you do to earn your bread?
I will bet dollars to donuts you are a paid in part or whole by the taxpayers who actually produce something that other people would pay for yet you do not.

Originally posted by Hefficide

Maybe tomorrow I'll go back to defending the Second Amendment. I always have. But this... all those kids?

Kids for Christ sake.

Today I don't give the first damn about gun rights. Today I don't care about talking points, or political positions, or anything else along those lines.

Today all I care about is a school, filled with dead kids, and the fact that we live in a world that enabled some freaking idiot to take their lives. Somewhere we have failed as a society and it's time for us to stop being obtuse about the subject and sit down to have a long discussion about how to rectify this.

Better mental health? Stronger background checks for guns? Better tracking on guns that are sold?

I don't know.

I do know that for the first time in decades, I feel sick to my stomach and am absolutely shocked.

~Heff

Interesting scenario, and every other nation-state besides the U.S., still have murders with weapons, and is that to because of guns from the United States. Don't get me wrong I am not a fan of these innocent children being murdered, however the criminals alwaysssss.... find a gun, regardless of their legislation practices. So are you saying now that over 27 kids have been killed its ok, for America to vamp the second Amendment. Not a fan of this sentiment, as more people die in a given year in car accidents than this massacre, and now lets throw out our 2nd Amendment

reply to post by Hefficide

Today all I care about is a school, filled with dead kids, and the fact that we live in a world that enabled some freaking idiot to take their lives. Somewhere we have failed as a society and it's time for us to stop being obtuse about the subject and sit down to have a long discussion about how to rectify this.

While the main talking point coming out of the squawk box even as I write this ? Gun control what else?
Not that mainstream media has any morality.

What should also make you sick Heff ? Is the very real possibility that these recent shooting victims are just the first few of what's to come ?

Originally posted by Hellas
reply to post by phantomjack

 

Why? Because the founding fathers were wise enough to warn us of an over reaching government?

You obviously are very uneducated.

I'm really looking forward to you explaining that..

i was hoping you would explain why the first person you quoted is ignorant, but i won't hold my breath. you have fun making people explain themselves while you throw out 1 line half insults while failing to prove your point

Private guns are big buisness. People high up on the totem pole make money off of gun sales. The 2nd amendment is safe. The only pressure to ban guns comes from the street, not the corridors of power.

So tired of this. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BAN GUNS. Whats truly sad, though, is that the fanatics out there arent even willing to have a conversation on the subject. ANY speak of restrictions on guns is looked at as though "they're gonna take all our guns!".

The truth is, I am very pro gun rights. But a conversation needs to be had. We need to take a look at WHAT KIND of guns are out there for the public. We need to take a look at capacity. We need to take a look at more rigorous qualifications for who can purchase guns.

But we wont. Cuz this is 'Merica. We like guns. We have a logical need for high capacity military style weapons

I have yet to hear one single person come up with even a remotely logical reason why they need a high-cap AR-15. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON.

Once an Amendment is up for "discussion", it won't be long before they're all up for "discussion". That's probably been the plan all along.

Originally posted by MrUncreated
Once an Amendment is up for "discussion", it won't be long before they're all up for "discussion". That's probably been the plan all along.

The amendment is not what needs to be up for discussion. What is protected by the amendment is.

Yours is a fine example of the way fear keeps us from having the conversation at all.

This wont be the last shooting like this that we see.

I definitely think this is psychological warfare. The writing is on the wall. Please bump this thread I made so I can get more input from some of the very sharp members on this site...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's basically about how these shootings are being crafted to defeat the arguments that support the 2nd amendment.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
The amendment is not what needs to be up for discussion. What is protected by the amendment is.

Yours is a fine example of the way fear keeps us from having the conversation at all.

This wont be the last shooting like this that we see.

No. And I bet it's not the last time we hear of some armed police officer shooting an unarmed civilian, or raping some woman in her own home, or beating some handcuffed, homeless guy (with a mental illness) to death with a baton. Everyone is acting like this is the first time something like this has ever happened, and if we don't hurry up and ban guns, then everyone is going to get murdered tomorrow. It's ridiculous. Yes, children were killed, it's sickening, but banning guns won't stop it. Next it will be homemade explosives, or someone wearing a hockey mask with a machete, hacking up people in the streets while someone records the whole thing with their cellphone. Or training rottweilers to tear their throats out on command. What will you do, then? Ban Walmart and over-the-counter chemicals? Soap? Fertilizer? Dogs? Hockey masks? Just ban everything, and chain everyone up in a hole, and cover it with a massive 40-ton boulder, seal us all away in order to protect us from ourselves?

Originally posted by MrUncreated

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
The amendment is not what needs to be up for discussion. What is protected by the amendment is.

Yours is a fine example of the way fear keeps us from having the conversation at all.

This wont be the last shooting like this that we see.

No. And I bet it's not the last time we hear of some armed police officer shooting an unarmed civilian, or raping some woman in her own home, or beating some handcuffed, homeless guy (with a mental illness) to death with a baton. Everyone is acting like this is the first time something like this has ever happened, and if we don't hurry up and ban guns, then everyone is going to get murdered tomorrow. It's ridiculous. Yes, children were killed, it's sickening, but banning guns won't stop it. Next it will be homemade explosives, or someone wearing a hockey mask with a machete, hacking up people in the streets while someone records the whole thing with their cellphone. Or training rottweilers to tear their throats out on command. What will you do, then? Ban Walmart and over-the-counter chemicals? Soap? Fertilizer? Dogs? Hockey masks? Just ban everything, and chain everyone up in a hole, and cover it with a massive 40-ton boulder, seal us all away in order to protect us from ourselves?

You are deflecting the point. I never said this was the first one.I never said that people couldnt do this without guns. I never said we will all get murdered tomorrow. I never said anything about banning all guns in fact, I stated the opposite.

You are absolutely illustrating my point. We cant even have a conversation about guns, without people like you deflecting and screaming "They're gonna take er guns!".

You let fear keep you from even having a conversation. And that is why it will not change. Guns are not the biggest factor here. But they are a major one. And there needs to be a discussion. But people like you wont let it happen. We cant even discuss gun regulations without people such as yourself twisting that into "they wanna ban all guns!"

Fear. it is what drives the people of this country now.

Someday maybe you'll take the time to give me a logical reason why someone needs an m4 with 50 round mags. Probably not, though.

The Second Amendment cant be nullified (as in "goodbye") without a Constitutional Convention. Furthermore, I would suggest that any attempts to do so by the POTUS or the leadership in the House and Senate is worthy of IMPEACHMENT. Yes, attacks on the Constitution should be met with Impeachment from office - no matter how high the office or popular the office holder.