China School Knife Attack - Over 20 injured, including children, page 11


Pages: <<  8    9    10    11    12  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 79 times


reply posted on 16-12-2012 @ 04:32 PM by bigfatfurrytexan
Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


So why do people only get up in arms when it comes to guns? I read on here all the time about liberties being stripped away and people grumble but with nowhere near the passion or virolence that they do when guns are involved


If i am correct, you are in America? Are you in the southern states?

While the civil war may be dead in the minds of most south state folks, there is a mindset here. Our guns are part of the culture. It is about hunting, outdoorsmanship, that kind of stuff. I work in an office. I wear a suit to work. But on the weekend I usually wear camo. If i have time, i try to go shoot frequently. And I go hunting about 3 times a year (summer hunting is still fun, but hot and not as many hogs because of the heat). It is just part of our culture.

And since we all have guns, and they are a part of our lives, we depend on them for other things like protection. While I have never had to use one in that manner, I am certainly prepared to not be a victim.

It is just a different mindset. We don't want the law having to take care of us. We are self reliant and would rather be responsible for ourselves.

Maybe not the rest of the south, but West Texas is this way.


Fair enough with the murder and theft thing being lower, Ill look into that but when it comes to rape most rapists are known to the victim, rape by masked strangers is a very small percentage so Im not sure that bringing guns into the equation would solve anything there.


Around here it is either a date rape thing where the guy is drunk and should have just gone home. Or it is a visitor in the house/neighbor type scenario. A .38 special tucked in the purse prevents the first one. In the second one....maybe not so much.

I know a lady who has shot 3 different guys (in a nearby town) during her life for trying to rape her. Tough, tough old broad for sure. You HAVE to respect someone like her.


Im kinda worn out with this, I appreciate yourself and a few other people who have been civil (apologies if I havent always been) but most of your fellow gun advocates just come across as feral.
Despite background and psych tests I wouldnt want to be near most of the people on here even without a gun let alone with one.


Its because you are discussing something that threatens our way of life. The last time this happened, there was civil war. This time would be no different.

edit on 16-12-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 16-12-2012 @ 04:43 PM by NarrowGate
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


They are not culturally identical. Why did you not just phrase the question that way in the beginning? That is not quite as offensive as your other posts now is it?

Past that, I have no evidence anything is more common in America, and I do not know of all of the problems in the other countries you mention.

For you to say we are wrong for wanting to have guns, after we just had a bunch of children get killed, is for you to pretend you "know stuff". For you to make jokes is even worse. I hope this is a sufficient answer.

I think we are done talking now. Ask someone else, you will likely get the same answer. America is a great country, and our constitution is not what caused this. For you to say such a thing offends me, because I know this country is not a bad country. There are flaws in every country in the world.


reply posted on 16-12-2012 @ 05:04 PM by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


"I could link another 10 otr so from the last 15 years but I think you get the point.

Yeah guns are safe and as long as youve got a few in the house youll be fine

Wake up morons, guns are bad!!!! "



And when they do take them and haul your ass up on a train to be gassed, we'll all be holding signs and pointing fingers at you saying

"moron"

When they do take the guns away, and people move to homemade bombs and homemade guns, what then make them illegal? Oh wait they already are. The fact is if you really want to do something you can, and this knife incident just proves that. You can take away as many toys as you want. People will find a better cheaper and more concealed way to do it... Grow up.

Here's a thought. All the people listed in these crimes mysteriously are mentally unstable. Why don't we just make a new law that says abort and kill all mentally retarded babies and people with a disposition to be insane. Then we will have 99% less to worry about and the state wont have to take care of them when adults, which means our tax dollars. Threes a win win. (sarc off)



reply posted on 16-12-2012 @ 08:45 PM by optimus primal
Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by optimus primal


Kind of hypocritical of you to talk about someones debating abilities when you can even acknowledge a question thats been put to you several times already

Why is it that these shootings happen with such frequency in the USA?
Why dont countries like Australia, Canada or the UK have similar problems?

Despite what you think the cultures of the 4 countries Ive mentioned above are remarkably similar


They do happen in other countries, they just take the form of weapons that are more readily available in those areas. Guns bear the brunt of the sensationalism because of the cultural differences. If you took away every gun in america right now, i could put together a bomb with common items from the Lowes I work at in 20 minutes and kill several hundred people, if I were so inclined. The problem here isn't guns. It's not knives. It's not grenades. It's not bombs.

The problem is societal, it is shared by many western and some asian countries. It has to do with the stigma of mental illness and the lack of proper diagnosis of such and poor treatment of it. These people who commit these acts, whether they be shootings, knifings or bombings, are almost exclusively mental ill. Do you know why almost all of these shootings in america happen in schools? Think about it carefully.

The answer, if you haven't guessed, guns are not allowed in the building or on the property, often times cities have ordinances prohibiting their being even within thousands of feet of the school. These people who commit these acts know this as every other american does, there is no chance that anyone will be a serious threat to them as they proceed with their plans.

Gun control does not stop violence from happening, it just changes it's form. What we really need to do is address our problems treating and diagnosing mental illness and hold the media accountable for it's glorification of these mentally ill individuals.


reply posted on 16-12-2012 @ 10:06 PM by TheBorg
reply to post by optimus primal


As further evidence that guns aren't the problem, take a look at this map, presented by the UN for this year:




Found here.

As is clearly visible, the US is no where near the worst offenders of murders worldwide. Murder is NOT an US-only problem. Murder happens all over the world. Instead of taking everyone's guns away, maybe we need to focus on what really drives these, as has already been mentioned mentally unstable people, to go out and harm children.

Personally, I think that these "killzones", for lack of a better term, were created by the gun restriction crowd. It was a knee-jerk reaction to an horrific event, but it actually took the teeth out of the hands of the only ones responsible enough to stop future events.

TheBorg


reply posted on 17-12-2012 @ 04:44 AM by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Im Australian but live in Malaysia.

I think your right that its a mindset, guns for hunting are 1 thing, but how many people in big cities go hunting?
Why do you need a semi auto to kill dear or boar?

Im going to guess that apart from great fresh food part of the appeal is the tracking and killing, I hear alot of you call it sport. Isnt it more sporting to give the animal a chance? unless your starving wouldnt it be fairer and more fun to use a bow and arrow?

LOL had to shoot 3 different guys
Im sorry I know I shouldnt laugh but maybe she needs to look at the type of guys she associates with, 1 time good on her for defending herself 2 times... um ok... thats really not good, 3 times is this lady looking for excuses to shoot people??
Im not being trivial and dont mean to sound callous but cmon, 3 times!!!! really!!!!



Its because you are discussing something that threatens our way of life. The last time this happened, there was civil war. This time would be no different.


but having guns around threatens lives not a way of life.
The last time this happened was 300 odd years ago, surely times and mentalities have changed since then.
As far as I know no one has used a gun with any effect against your government.
Peaceful revolutions work better than any armed uprising ever does.

I know this is a subject alot of you feel very strongly about so once again I appreciate the fact you can discuss this intelligently and coherently with me without being insulting.

I am genuinely trying to understand the mindset and what I see as contradictions with the subject.

Cheers


reply posted on 17-12-2012 @ 04:48 AM by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by NarrowGate




They are not culturally identical. Why did you not just phrase the question that way in the beginning? That is not quite as offensive as your other posts now is it?

Past that, I have no evidence anything is more common in America, and I do not know of all of the problems in the other countries you mention.


I said virtually culturally indentical and yes they are, very few diffences, take away the accents and you would barely be able to tell a difference.

You have no evidence
Your so blinded by your patriotism that you cant even see the issue.
Shooting sprees every few months by whack jobs is a very American phenomena, are you seriously telling me you are not aware of this or do you just dont want to acknowledge it because you feel it makes your country look bad?


reply posted on 17-12-2012 @ 04:54 AM by IkNOwSTuff








reply posted on 17-12-2012 @ 06:54 AM by bigfatfurrytexan
Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Im Australian but live in Malaysia.

I think your right that its a mindset, guns for hunting are 1 thing, but how many people in big cities go hunting?
Why do you need a semi auto to kill dear or boar?


The first civil war in the US was fought over the folks who live in cities trying to dictate how the folks out in the country would live. It was, in essence, a fight against mob rule. As a constitutional republic, a key element of our systems design is that the rights of the individual are not to be encroached upon, even at the convenience of the majority..

I know there is far, far lower population density in my neck of the woods. And I bristle at the thought of New Yorkers determining what is best for me here in West Texas.



Im going to guess that apart from great fresh food part of the appeal is the tracking and killing, I hear alot of you call it sport. Isnt it more sporting to give the animal a chance? unless your starving wouldnt it be fairer and more fun to use a bow and arrow?


I bow hunt, too. Or, used to. I have a bad AC joint in my shoulder and have a hard time drawing the string anymore.


LOL had to shoot 3 different guys
Im sorry I know I shouldnt laugh but maybe she needs to look at the type of guys she associates with, 1 time good on her for defending herself 2 times... um ok... thats really not good, 3 times is this lady looking for excuses to shoot people??
Im not being trivial and dont mean to sound callous but cmon, 3 times!!!! really!!!!


The life of "oilfield trash" can be rough and tumble. And yes, she likely should make better date choices. But since she is in her mid 70's, all of that happened a few years ago (back in the 70's and 80s).




but having guns around threatens lives not a way of life.
The last time this happened was 300 odd years ago, surely times and mentalities have changed since then.
As far as I know no one has used a gun with any effect against your government.
Peaceful revolutions work better than any armed uprising ever does.

I know this is a subject alot of you feel very strongly about so once again I appreciate the fact you can discuss this intelligently and coherently with me without being insulting.

I am genuinely trying to understand the mindset and what I see as contradictions with the subject.

Cheers


Well, the only thing that stops a bad man with a gun is a good man wtih a gun.

And I would say that the fact that we haven't had an armed uprising here in 230 some odd years can be attributed to the fact that we are armed. What some say is evidence of needlessness, I instead say is evidence of efficacy.


reply posted on 17-12-2012 @ 11:32 AM by Indigo5
reply to post by Vilhelm


20 Injured including children (knife)
20 children killed in 4 minutes (gun)

Okay...yes...mental illness and associated treatments or lack there-of trigger these events.

BUT...there is a spectrum of devestation associated with the availability of weapons.

If the attacker in China had access to a semi-automatic weapon, how would that headline read differently?

What if the Newton shooter had used a stick? what would the death toll be? What if he had access to a fully automatic AK-47 and hand grenades? What would the death toll be? What if everyone could legally own RPG Launchers? What would the death toll be everytime someone snapped?

So from "stick" to "Nuclear Weapon"....is the spectrum...we need to figure out where the line is drawn, but the argument that it doesn't matter where we draw the line? Just idiotic.

I am NOT demanding we ban ALL guns...I do think we owe it to our children to have a national debate that begins with an HONEST discussion though.

We need to discuss treatments for mentall illness. What treatment was he recieving? I saw a news report that he was "on medication"...what kind? When did he start it? Did he switch meds recently? Ever hear those commercials for anti-depressants that ironically warn they might result in "thoughts of suicide"?? Some folks react very bad to certain psycho-active medications....So we might consider a close look at the Pharma industry as well as the gun lobby if we find out he recently switched to some new drug.

We need to discuss "access" direct and indirect. If you have a member of your household with documented mental illness should you be able to own guns? If so, should you be required to have a coded gun safe? or some other similair precaution? And what weapons are available etc.

We need to have those discussions.
edit on 17-12-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)
edit on 17-12-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 17-12-2012 @ 02:50 PM by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


no i dont

The knife incident actually proves MY point, same situation, 1 with guns 1 with knives, guns = 27 dead 20 injured, knives = 20 injured. See a difference.


maybe his intent wasnt to kill but to just harm, had he intentions to kill im pretty sure stabbing a 7 year old through the chest wouldnt be that hard ^^

was he using the biggest knife he could get? was it even sharp? im pretty sure with a bowie knife or better one could kill 27 or more before most even knew what was happening.

had the kid used a small pea shooter pocket gun im sure many would be alive as well.

and improvised weapons are only as good as the maker , most will make complete crap,, but some could manufacture plenty of fine arms and explosives.


reply posted on 17-12-2012 @ 03:01 PM by TrueBrit
reply to post by ~widowmaker~


If I had a blade in each hand, the length of my forearm, I could pick or choose wether to kill, or wether to maim. Children or adults, with paired blades like that, I could probably screw up a whole bunch of people, or kill them all without any apparant difficulty.

I wouldnt, because Im actually quite a nice fellow. But I could. Worse for the victims, I could kill silently if I showed restraint, and that would mean that potentially, if I was smart and careful, as well as intent on destruction, I could avoid detection also.


reply posted on 17-12-2012 @ 03:52 PM by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by TrueBrit


i know thats what im saying, blades can be just as deadly, silent killers. now if you run around screaming at the top of your lungs in a packed mall with knives in the air, im pretty sure that would give it away lol. hell im sure if ya were real quick you could prolly off as many people with a pencil to the temple or throat and move on to next victim . just sayin ^^

this guy was just a loney bin, if it was someone with intent and planning, maybe even a little practice on a pig or some other animal , or even store bought meats....to get the feel, one could become quite a killer with a knife.
Pages: <<  8    9    10    11    12  >>    ^^TOP^^