Breaking News - Shooting at Newtown, Connecticut elementary school.

reply to post by salainen

and this is called "false hope" ...

I would hope it is being done with the intention of helping mentally ill people, rather than the companies trying to make profit

i can assure you, they aren't.
see any prescribing ratio for details.
or the ample varieties that have been used and withdrawn over the years.
there are many.

Originally posted by SuperStudChuck
1. The RIP Victoria Soto page that was up yesterday from 12/10 is now down. Link was: www.facebook.com... but that now just redirects to facebook for me.

Actually, now it's showing this group: SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL ADAM LANZA INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY Link: www.facebook.com...

So I'm really confused-- not sure if it's the same group, b/c no group # is given. Was pretty sure first was a fan page, and 2nd is a group. Anyone else getting that page popping up?

The link was actually: www.facebook.com...

Importantly, it was a page, not a group, and the IDs are different. Are you trying to spread lies? Or genuenly confused, if so, where did you get the group address?

Originally posted by SuperStudChuck
2. Something seemed WAAAAY off about the ME's report yesterday. I get that he was nervous, but his jokes were wildly out of place. I saw this page-- no clue if this guy has any credibility, so help me out... any chance he's not the real ME or a "recent hire" like the 1 teacher who survived. (Thoughts are still bubbling on recently hired teacher)

What I'm wondering is-- could there be just a few KEY actors in this plot, set up ahead of time? Maybe not-- talk me out of it, please.

Well, the ME had been up all night examining young children's corpses, each with multiple bullet wounds, and had only given one news briefing before. Considering how big this particular case was, he was probably very nervous and with all those reporters, cameras, microphones around would have had difficulty making a proper speech. He probably tried to lighten the mood with the jokes, it was probably a stressful situation for him. I myself would have made a worse performance than him.

If he was a hired actor, I'd say he would have looked more professional, and made a much more concise and direct speech.

Originally posted by unphased
Why did the shooter kill himself...?

The police said he "apparently committed suicide" which would mean he was DOA....

If the police weren't there and there was no report of a gun jamming, yet there are reports of some massive amount of ammo that one man couldn't carry.... WHY did he kill himself?????


# that this was a test of a Jason Bourne with orders to self destruct.

I'll bet you the ones who were programmed were activated by the Dark Knight movie..

He heard sirens, and realised police are coming. Happens in a lot of shootings, the guy gets scared, and kills himself. I mean he chose an elementary school to go and shoot in, he was not prepared to start a shootout with police.

Although aparently he was homeschooled, and lived with his mother. Perhaps that was the only place he knew other people were present, having never been to high school, college, or a workplace shops or anything. None the less, I'm sure it was just the police that scared him.

reply to post by salainen

is this your personal exaggeration or do you have a link for this ?

the ME had been up all night examining young children's corpses

i have yet to read which bodies other than the shooter and his mom were specifically mentioned.

7 bodies ... mom & shooter specifically classed as homicide and suicide respectively.
for all we know, the totality of the seven were adults, only.
unless you have a link showing otherwise, anything else is pure speculation at this point.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by salainen

 

and this is called "false hope" ...

I would hope it is being done with the intention of helping mentally ill people, rather than the companies trying to make profit

i can assure you, they aren't.
see any prescribing ratio for details.
or the ample varieties that have been used and withdrawn over the years.
there are many.

So you think pharmacological researchers are doing it for profit? So I shouldn't trust peer-reviewed scientific articles before the research was done with the intention of monetary profit, rather than helping people?

I know there are a lot of things that get done purely with money in mind (eg. natural medicine), but I would hope that scientific research is not done with money in mind.

Yet another gun?

www.huffingtonpost.com... 2%7Csec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D246540
The chief medical examiner has said the ammunition was a type designed to expend its energy in the victim's tissues and stay inside the body to inflict the maximum amount of damage.
--Also Sunday, a Connecticut official said the gunman's mother was found dead in her pajamas in bed, shot four times in the head with a .22-caliber rifle.

Where did Lanza get the special ammo? Where did he get all those magazines? Where did he get his ammo vest?

------------

Also this:

www.dailymail.co.uk...
A parent told MailOnline Lanza battered on a closet where 15 children and their music teacher were locked inside shouting: 'Let me in! Let me in!'
The mother, in her 40s, who declined to give her name, praised the quick-thinking actions of Maryrose Kristopik: 'I want to thank my child's music teacher. She saved their lives.
'The shooter kept banging on the door screaming: "Let me in! Let me in!" but he didn't get in.

So why didn't he shoot right through the doors?



/

Originally posted by salainen

Originally posted by unphased
Why did the shooter kill himself...?

The police said he "apparently committed suicide" which would mean he was DOA....

If the police weren't there and there was no report of a gun jamming, yet there are reports of some massive amount of ammo that one man couldn't carry.... WHY did he kill himself?????


# that this was a test of a Jason Bourne with orders to self destruct.

I'll bet you the ones who were programmed were activated by the Dark Knight movie..

He heard sirens, and realised police are coming. Happens in a lot of shootings, the guy gets scared, and kills himself. I mean he chose an elementary school to go and shoot in, he was not prepared to start a shootout with police.

Although aparently he was homeschooled, and lived with his mother. Perhaps that was the only place he knew other people were present, having never been to high school, college, or a workplace shops or anything. None the less, I'm sure it was just the police that scared him.

He attended junior high and high school, it appears he was only home schooled a couple of years, so you're wrong about that. And you weren't there, but you're "sure" it was just the police that scared him

reply to post by salainen


Hate to break it to you, but heck yeah! They only get funding through big pharma. No little guy is going to dump his life savings (though there are cases, heard a story on NPR a couple of weeks ago about a guy studying experimental effects of sound waves on cancer cells during the off-time, late nights in a university chem lab, spending his own money on gear and research).

It's just not the case that people go into the business with independent, non-profit driven backing. The drugs are found, tested by non-third party evaluators (in-house, in other words) and are marketed to the public explicitly with the intent of by-passing the doctor and going straight to the patient so he or she can self-diagnose, thus clamoring for the drug when he or she realizes that indeed his or her legs are restless after all. So, the drug gets prescribed and then a year or so later the FDA has too many dead Americans on its hands, class action law suits are leveled against the company, they settle out of court or lose something that amounts to chump change from their perspective (my recent $3.14 check from a B of A class action lawsuit is example of that...whoopty doo, I kept it because it's more fun as a conversation piece), and then they are able to do a little tweaking at the chemical level a la "Bath Salts" and stay ahead of the FDA's code enforcement, rebranding the drug for Strawberry Angina, Overly Aroused Phosphorescent Labia or Diabetes of the Eyebrow, or maybe cross the species barrier and prescribe it for Horsey AIDS or Chinchilla Hyperactive Disorder...

Yeah, so maybe I make it too much of a joke, but look at it for what it is. Are all the good little children who graduate college and going into the field of chemistry looking to change the world? Probably a lot of them. Are they still wet behind the ears and naive about how you get access to changing the world? Eff yeah they are! Most of us, at least tacitly, are expecting money for our deeds or some compensation, at least on the grand scale, but you have to go to work for Big Pharma, Big Agro or Big Oil if you are going to get funding for your research experiments in chemistry. There's your Government subsidy for R&D, by the way...researching new stuff and when you stumble across some accidental, yet interesting new compound, Eureka...a new revenue stream for...for...well, hell, pick something that it helps at least half as much as it hurts and you've got it.

Originally posted by starviego

So why didn't he shoot right through the doors?

/

Well, when they say closet, the first thing that came to mind were those coat like closets in the back of the classroom where we kept our winter outer layers when I lived in upstate New York. Not probable for 15 kids and an adult...

But then after further thinking, it could have been one of those storage closets for the instruments that had your normal, heavy wood, fire-proof doors that most schools have nowadays, the ones that are very solid. Although, an experienced gunman could probably know where to shoot to blow the hinges or doorknob off...actually, I'm anything BUT an experienced gunman and the first thing I would do is shoot at the door knob.

Does beg the question how he was so well versed at guns but didn't try to shoot out a door knob?

reply to post by Sphota


Door knob is not really where you would want to shoot, but to the side of the door handle, where the piece that keeps the door closed goes into the door frame.

reply to post by salainen

So you think pharmacological researchers are doing it for profit?

why did you jump from the pharmaceudical industry to "pharmacological researchers" ??
and yes, in some ways, they do, do it for the money.
where do you think research grants come from, Santa Claus ??

So I shouldn't trust peer-reviewed scientific articles before the research was done with the intention of monetary profit, rather than helping people?

that is entirely up to you.
since i know how to read said articles, many of them are dismissed before they ever begin.
"peer-reviewed" holds little weight in my book.

(no offense intended but when ppl tout the 'peer-reviewed' aspect, the first image that comes to mind is of a group of children standing over a pile of dung ... do you know the rest of the story ? )
yep, via peer-review, we're sure it's not shinola

I know there are a lot of things that get done purely with money in mind (eg. natural medicine), but I would hope that scientific research is not done with money in mind.

and just what money is there to be made in "natural medicine" ??
don't you realize that is exactly what the pharm industry desires ??
that the ppl will never realize they can do for themselves, naturally ... as that is their only hope of staying in business.

reply to post by starviego


Sounds like hollow points to me. It's not really that special, or hard to come by.

Originally posted by starviego
Yet another gun?

www.huffingtonpost.com... 2%7Csec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D246540
The chief medical examiner has said the ammunition was a type designed to expend its energy in the victim's tissues and stay inside the body to inflict the maximum amount of damage.
--Also Sunday, a Connecticut official said the gunman's mother was found dead in her pajamas in bed, shot four times in the head with a .22-caliber rifle.

Where did Lanza get the special ammo? Where did he get all those magazines? Where did he get his ammo vest?

------------

Also this:

www.dailymail.co.uk...
A parent told MailOnline Lanza battered on a closet where 15 children and their music teacher were locked inside shouting: 'Let me in! Let me in!'
The mother, in her 40s, who declined to give her name, praised the quick-thinking actions of Maryrose Kristopik: 'I want to thank my child's music teacher. She saved their lives.
'The shooter kept banging on the door screaming: "Let me in! Let me in!" but he didn't get in.

So why didn't he shoot right through the doors?



/

you can buy the expanding bullets at Wal-Mart and any place that sells guns dude. people buy them for self defense purposes, and if you have a permit to carry, and do carry, your an idiot for not having that ammo in your gun. but that goes for hand guns.

i cant see how an expanding bullet/hollow point rifle cartridge fired at that close range could expand that well though, you know, since the cartridge is meant to go hundreds of yards, vs. 2 feet.

reply to post by timesacomin


Hollow points expand on impact, whether they hit 20 feet away, or 2 feet away.

reply to post by starviego

starviego, that's standard ammo known as hollow-point and is available at any WalMart let alone at the local gun range.

another gun variety though, now that caught my attention.
so, one has to wonder which gun was recovered where ?

i am a bit surprised by the story you linked (gotta read the whole thing yet) ... it would lead me to think he was seeking refuge, not additional victims or he wouldn't have asked to be "let in".

i am curious where this classroom is located in comparison to the rest ... the exact location where Adam's body was found hasn't even been officially released, yet.

I don't know how serious it is, but a bunch of people have text me on some news about a movie theater shooting in Texas. Just an FYI. Going to search news on it now...

Sorry, I'm not intending to derail the thread. Just wanted to give some info

reply to post by mistermister


Yep, and I have to say, I was never into prepping, but this woman was once married to a guy that was a ceo head of taxes for GE financial. If she is worrying about economic collapse should we? I mean would she know? It'd be interesting to know if the husband prepped at all, i mean, when he was out of his suit and tie.

The Morgan quote is BS
wafflesatnoon.com...

also
www.poynter.org...
Journalists

been a while might as well throw this in as well
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by starviego


A shop?

www.ammunitiontogo.com...

Why did the guy in THIS story do what he did, what about THIS guy?

Originally posted by Illuminaughty8
He attended junior high and high school, it appears he was only home schooled a couple of years, so you're wrong about that. And you weren't there, but you're "sure" it was just the police that scared him

He did? Well, then I'm wrong. So he did have a choice of targets, including a high school, and yet he chose an elementary school.

But I'm fairly certain he got scared by police, think about it, he chose an elementary school to go shooting in, he chose the youngest targets to kill, and shot himself as soon as the police were coming. To me its obvious he realised police were there and wasn't brave enough to face them.

Originally posted by Sphota
reply to post by salainen

 

Hate to break it to you, but heck yeah! They only get funding through big pharma. No little guy is going to dump his life savings (though there are cases, heard a story on NPR a couple of weeks ago about a guy studying experimental effects of sound waves on cancer cells during the off-time, late nights in a university chem lab, spending his own money on gear and research).

It's just not the case that people go into the business with independent, non-profit driven backing. The drugs are found, tested by non-third party evaluators (in-house, in other words) and are marketed to the public explicitly with the intent of by-passing the doctor and going straight to the patient so he or she can self-diagnose, thus clamoring for the drug when he or she realizes that indeed his or her legs are restless after all. So, the drug gets prescribed and then a year or so later the FDA has too many dead Americans on its hands, class action law suits are leveled against the company, they settle out of court or lose something that amounts to chump change from their perspective (my recent $3.14 check from a B of A class action lawsuit is example of that...whoopty doo, I kept it because it's more fun as a conversation piece), and then they are able to do a little tweaking at the chemical level a la "Bath Salts" and stay ahead of the FDA's code enforcement, rebranding the drug for Strawberry Angina, Overly Aroused Phosphorescent Labia or Diabetes of the Eyebrow, or maybe cross the species barrier and prescribe it for Horsey AIDS or Chinchilla Hyperactive Disorder...

Yeah, so maybe I make it too much of a joke, but look at it for what it is. Are all the good little children who graduate college and going into the field of chemistry looking to change the world? Probably a lot of them. Are they still wet behind the ears and naive about how you get access to changing the world? Eff yeah they are! Most of us, at least tacitly, are expecting money for our deeds or some compensation, at least on the grand scale, but you have to go to work for Big Pharma, Big Agro or Big Oil if you are going to get funding for your research experiments in chemistry. There's your Government subsidy for R&D, by the way...researching new stuff and when you stumble across some accidental, yet interesting new compound, Eureka...a new revenue stream for...for...well, hell, pick something that it helps at least half as much as it hurts and you've got it.

Unfortunately I see your point, and fear you might be right after all. I expect they at least announce any conflicts of interest in their papers, for those of us who decide to study pharmacology. I would have hoped that universities, the governement, and other not for profit organizations fund most research, but I suppose it is the pharmacies which are looking for profits who have the money to actually fund research. Unfortunate.

And I honestly thought that the peer-review, and testing periods were very rigorous in pharmacy. I thought there were several stages to go through, including human trials etc.

Originally posted by Honor93
why did you jump from the pharmaceudical industry to "pharmacological researchers" ??
and yes, in some ways, they do, do it for the money.
where do you think research grants come from, Santa Claus ??

Because I expect that it is the researchers who actually come up with the drugs, not the people who sell the stuff. And I thought the money came from grants, eg. Government, Universities, Charities... But they do get funded by the industry, so I suppose you are right.

Originally posted by Honor93that is entirely up to you.
since i know how to read said articles, many of them are dismissed before they ever begin.
"peer-reviewed" holds little weight in my book.

(no offense intended but when ppl tout the 'peer-reviewed' aspect, the first image that comes to mind is of a group of children standing over a pile of dung ... do you know the rest of the story ? )
yep, via peer-review, we're sure it's not shinola

You dismiss many peer-reviewed scientific articles because you know them to be false? Poor quality research much be much more common than I hoped.

Originally posted by Honor93and just what money is there to be made in "natural medicine" ??
don't you realize that is exactly what the pharm industry desires ??
that the ppl will never realize they can do for themselves, naturally ... as that is their only hope of staying in business.

By that I mean the "Alternative Medicine' being sold at stores, and markets, most of which has nothing to do with science. I don't mean stuff that you can do by yourself.