How I know God exists.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Toadmund

 

It's become an argument between fundamentalist Christians' and Gnostic Christians' philosophies. At this point, the misunderstandings between the two are too far apart, for reconciliation.

The problem is that neither side knows their own philosophies well enough to see that they will never find common ground.

It's like one player is armed with badminton gear, while other is ready to play tennis.

There is no argument, unless you believe a one sided one equals two.

I defend myself.... cause I can.

Im used to the philosophy as it is an old one and I get tired of hearing the same ole same ole stuff with not an eye open to another pov.

Closed minded people are here in this world for me to open it, unless its on lock down. lol

If you have not studied your religion backwards and forwards why do you count yourself in with something you are not fully aware of?
"Most scholars believe[26] that key concepts of Zoroastrian eschatology and demonology influenced the Abrahamic religions.[27][28] On the other hand, Zoroastrianism itself inherited ideas from other belief systems and, like other "practiced" religions, accommodates some degree of syncretism.[29]"
en.wikipedia.org...

Jesus did not create Christianity and if you go back to the root of the religion you attach yourself to you may change your mind. I am not trying to deceive you, only teach you there is more to this "story" than meets the eye.

Seek and you will find does not mean to read the Bible and understand it the way your preacher tells you. It can be more... it can be more than fulfilling and comforting when you find out things you have never been taught by man.

Jesus has left many clues on this Earth... all you have to do is open your mind and heart and seek what it is he wants you to know.

There is a cloud of confusion among people for a reason.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Below in this quote you imply I do not study or believe what Jesus taught and I can assure you your implying a falsehood. Truth be known, I have probably studied hundreds of hours on my own... more than you.

Seriously, Mamaj? I showed you in Jesus' own words what he had to say about Satan. If you've studied the Bible for hundreds of hours on your own, how did you miss them? Or do you just choose to ignore them?

You continue to place yourself above me and that is your ego talking. Come down off your high horse and lets get real.

I don't place myself above you, but I will point out your errors in interpreting the Bible.

My angle is called a pov. I am giving you an excuse as to why you continue to also imply Jesus means this or that when I am telling you I DONT GET THAT when I read and study. I know your "type" of Christian Philosophy and I am telling you I do not agree. So be it. How can you be so bold as to tell me I do not know him ...but you do? I feel sorry for you more now than I ever have since becoming a member.

I'm only bringing to light that your "point of view" isn't consistent with what's written and how it is written in the Bible. The Bible wasn't meant for personal interpretation, but interpretation by the Holy Spirit. It's obvious that you choose your own interpretation. So be it.

Jesus did not teach or imply Satan was a being.... that is a myth. Its open for interpretation. My dad being a Minister will tell you the same thing. Hades is a real place on Earth too. You still read the Bible from flesh...not spirit. But thats ok.... doesn't hurt me a bit.

Yes, Jesus did imply that Satan was a being. You only think it's open for interpretation because you WANT it to be. You're the one reading it from the flesh.

Listen, I know your heart has been hardened due to personal experiences with the church, but you need to forgive and get back to the Spirit. You're building your own little world, religion and reality and you might think that's healthy, but I don't think it is. You're not helping yourself by hiding from the truth and creating your own truth.

I'm not condemning you. I think you know what the truth is and you're running from it out of a deep seated resentment for the church and other Christians. It has hurt you deeply and you want to retaliate against them. It's blinding you from the truth.

Yes, I know Hades is a real place just like Paradise/Abraham's Bosom. What does that have to do with your point?

reply to post by Deetermined


HAHA! You did not show me anywhere Jesus said satan was a being. You are very confused but I am off to work as I have no more time to try and lighten you up.

I know God exists and I know what Jesus has taught me is nothing like the dogma you preach. Its a dying philosophy though... we are too smart these days and have become more aware.

The root of the problems today is the religious dogma. Wars have been going because people set them self up above another and do not give of their hearts to their fellow man.

It wasn't enough for you that I believe in God.... you had to go further even though I am a believer like you and tell me and others we do not know Jesus because we are free thinkers as to what Jesus said.

We have the right to interpret the Word without another telling us what it means. I can read and understand just fine. I have done it for forty years without you and will continue to do so... without you.

Peace to you and yours.

I gotta go to work.

reply to post by MamaJ


The thing is, to get to where you are spiritually, at one time, you probably dumped the dogma of organized religion and their texts, to seek your own path, becoming an A-gnostic. Once found, you were able to see that all religions have truth, and that you can find solace and guidance in religious texts in a deeper more metaphysical way, than that of the blind dogma of those who trust words above personal experience.

One of the common misunderstandings when you tell people that you are a Gnostic is that they hear the more familiar word “Agnostic.” (This becomes quite amusing when they mishear “Agnostic Priest,” or “Agnostic Eucharist.”)

This becomes a good opportunity to elucidate one of the truisms of contemporary Gnosticism: You have to be an Agnostic before you can become a Gnostic.

The original differences between agnostic and gnostic are the “privative alpha” of Classical Greek. This prefix functioned like “un-” or “non-” and thus linguistically the two words are opposites, literally 'Knower' and 'Un-Knower.' (incidentally, the “a” was the first syllable, and the “g” was pronounced in both.)
gnoscast.blogspot.com...

gnoscast.blogspot.com...

The other fundamental difference is in the relationship of the individual to the religious tradition. The Gnostic approach to religion is individually transformative rather than primarily collectively proscriptive and prescriptive. In the orthodox paradigm the relationship of the individual to the religious tradition is complex, but is primarily through proscriptive statements, "don't ___", and through prescriptive statements, "do ___", that are authoritative in that they are commanded.

These have external ramifications that are detrimental or beneficial, such as "sin" and "forgiveness of sin," for example. There is also an inner spiritual developmental and transformitive dimension, but this is not ones primary relationship to the religious tradition, unless you are a mystic. In the gnostic paradigm the relationship of the individual to the religious tradition is more pragmatic: the tradition is an aid and guide to personal spiritual development and transformation.

It is a path of gnosis, which is internal and is a knowledge that you are, that comes from spiritual development and transformation. Instead of reading a text that reports a spiritual experience as a source for authoritative information, a Gnostic reads such a text for personal transformation, to gain insight, or may explore it by creatively retelling it, or seek a similar spiritual experience.

reply to post by MamaJ

HAHA! You did not show me anywhere Jesus said satan was a being. You are very confused but I am off to work as I have no more time to try and lighten you up.

I think this statement speaks for itself. I've already shown you the verses and you clearly choose to ignore them. You think I made up the fact that Satan used to be an angel/cherub? Please read your Bible with the Spirit of God and not the spirit of man. Learn to forgive and move forward. Don't hold so tightly to your resentment that's leading you backwards.

reply to post by windword


I just hope that people realize that not all spiritual experiences come from God.

reply to post by Deetermined


If God is everything and everything is God, then you have no problem. Fundamental Christians believe that God is separate from "his" creation, making it hard to find him. Gnostics don't.

Although, most gnotics believe that this reality is an illusion, they seek God through spiritual methods that provide experiencial knowledge (gnosis), through myticism.

Jesus was most certainly a mystic, therefore we have Gnostic Christians. There are, as well, Gnostic Buddhist, Jews, etc.

You can't tell some who knows that their knowledge is from their God that it isn't, or isn't truly spiritual.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Jesus was most certainly a mystic, therefore we have Gnostic Christians. There are, as well, Gnostic Buddhist, Jews, etc.

Regardless of whether Jesus was a mystic, Jesus did not teach or preach that people should practice mysticism. He knew that they didn't have all of the knowledge he did from above to be able to decipher the difference between spirits.

You can't tell some who knows that their knowledge is from their God that it isn't, or isn't truly spiritual.

It's all spiritual, but your statement makes it clear that it's not all the same God/god who's delivering the message. That's the point I'm trying to make as well.

reply to post by Deetermined

It's all spiritual, but your statement makes it clear that it's not all the same God/god who's delivering the message. That's the point I'm trying to make as well.

Me too! There is no way that Jesus was the incarnation of the blood thirsty, woman hating, child killing god of the Old Testament!

That god was NOT the father god that Jesus taught us how to pray to. Jesus, according to Gnostic Christians came from the true God, not the false god that led the Jews into sin.

And, I would disagree that Jesus never taught mysticism. He taught his disciple his truth and his ways, so that could also perform miracles, in his name. Not in the name of Yahweh.

Remember, Jesus taught the kingdom of Heaven is within, not somewhere outside of creation.

Originally posted by Lulzaroonie
Faith. That's all that separates believers from non-believers.
You have Faith that there is a God, and therefore you know he is real.
Others have faith that there is not, and therefore they know he is not.
Faith is all it has ever come down to.

However, faith is not the same as knowing.
Facts grant us knowledge based on reality. We should never have faith in what we believe to be true, but realize that we are always subject to changing our ideas to match observation.

The fact is, I know there is a God, and that His Son is Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Me too! There is no way that Jesus was the incarnation of the blood thirsty, woman hating, child killing god of the Old Testament!

That god was NOT the father god that Jesus taught us how to pray to. Jesus, according to Gnostic Christians came from the true God, not the false god that led the Jews into sin.

Jesus said that his God was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Whether or not you or anyone else wants to believe they are related is yours and their choice to make, as it is for all.

And, I would disagree that Jesus never taught mysticism. He taught his disciple his truth and his ways, so that could also perform miracles, in his name. Not in the name of Yahweh.

In this writing, we are going to concentrate on the words “Ruach” and “Pnuema” which mean: breath, wind, to blow, exhale, respire, breeze or air current. These definitions of the Holy Spirit do not describe a person or entity. They describe the form in which the invisible power and force flows from the Father and the Son. Learn these definitions because in them is the true doctrine regarding the Holy Spirit. The invisible energy and power of the Holy Spirit is literally the breath that flows out from Yahweh and Yahshua.

Where did the breath of life given to Adam come from? It came from the breath of Yahweh. Look back to the definitions of Ruach and Pnuema and see if they fit the occurrence in Genesis 2:7, And Yahweh Elohim formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into him the breath of life, and man became a living soul (breath, exhale, respire).

www.yaim.org...

Remember, Jesus taught the kingdom of Heaven is within, not somewhere outside of creation.

Jesus taught that it was both. The kingdom of God/Heaven would be in them until the appointed time for all to live together with God on the new earth/New Jerusalem.

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by eleven44

 

yes. ancient people were as capable as us. And sure they knew a lot of things. But nothing compared to what we know today.

Organized religion is a sham to steal your money and gain control of you. That is all it has ever really been.

Also, I dont claim to know the truth. I am just pointing out that you religious people do not either

I'm not 'religious.' Nor have I ever given money to a church (have given plenty to people, however.)
Not everyone who believes in God believes in Religion.
In fact, there is a huge difference between having a personal, living relationship with God and then considering yourself 'religious.'
I hold no traditions. No dogma. No scripture.
The time of books is over.

With all of that said, I do look to the Great Teachers for guidance, wisdom and strength. They have taught us many truths.

For example, when asked which commandment is the 'greatest,' Jesus replied:

‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

As for what 'loving the Lord, your God' means,
Jesus also says this:

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

This is the closest I get to living by 'dogma,' and if you ask me, it's a great rule to live by.
Love one another. Love the homeless, the weak, the needy, the 'less fortunate', the heartbroken, your neighbors, your community. For we are all created from the same Source. We are all Divine. We are all the same.
Therefore, God is not a 'man in the sky,' God is a living force that flows through EVERYTHING. If we Love the World and all of it's family, we are surely loving God and doing Gods work.

Cheers

reply to post by Deetermined

Jesus said that his God was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

First of all, Abraham honored the same god as his high priest Melchizedek, El Elyon, God of the Most High, or "Father of the Gods."

Then Melchizedek King of Salem brought out bread and wine.
He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying, 'Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.
And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.' Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
--Gen. 14:18-20

"When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men,
he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
For Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance."

Deuteronomy 32:8 from the Dead Sea Scrolls

Since Abraham was Isaac's father, I can only assume that they honored the same god. When Yahweh, a lower deity, came to visit Abraham and sat in his tent eating cakes and BBG, they discussed Abraham's offspring, which was the inheritance of Yahweh. He was to be the caretaker of Jacob, the twin of Esau, who honored another, and was not Yahweh's charge.

Whether or not you or anyone else wants to believe they are related is yours and their choice to make, as it is Jesus taught that it was both. The kingdom of God/Heaven would be in them until the appointed time for all to live together with God on the new earth/New Jerusalem.

Jesus was teaching people how to reconcile the inner kingdom of God with the outer. You can't do that by killing rebellious teenagers or declaring war on your neighbors because they are assigned a different god.

I don't believe anything in the New Testament, outside of what Jesus said personally. And even then, some of things that Jesus has been credited with saying and doing, has been proven, by Biblical scholars, to not be case.

For example, the famous conversation with Nicodemus, where Jesus tells him you must be born again, could not have happened the way it's written. Why? Because that conversation is impossible to translate into the Aramaic language, the language that Jesus spoke.

Also, the story of the adulterer, and the saying "Let him who without sin cast the first stone" wasn't added to the gospels until after 1000 AD. It most likely never happened.

There's more.



Watch the whole video or skip to 32:40 and skip to 1:26 for proof of my claims above.

My point is that you can't trust the New Testament to be true. If you can't trust the Bible, then you have to find God within, and trust what you find.

reply to post by eleven44

The time of books is over.

I starred your post, but I must take exception to this one statement. The time of books is NOW more than ever! It is lack of education that leads to dogmatic, narrow-minded zealotry and refusal to hear what others think and have come to believe.

reply to post by MamaJ




I didn't make you an enemy, i made you a rival because some of your views contradict scripture and even Jesus. Yes i agree we cannot say for sure wether people burn forever in hellfire after the final judgement but the book says what it says. Granted alot of it is allegorical, yet some of it is literal. It is not given for us to know everything that is in that book. Many things will remain a mystery until Jesus comes and tells us all these things.

To think there is a hell fire pit may be something we cannot say for sure. I know it doesnt make sense from what I have learned and the only words I take into heart all picked and chosen from my own convictions. Its personal really.

Yes you have things you have learned or thought you have learned and the words you take to heart all picked and chosen from your own convictions is just that, personal only to you. That does not equate you to being correct. The folly of all religious leaders is, none are willing to admit they could be wrong, and that they do not know everything. I have heard of preachers who tell their congregations to ignore the OT, but the OT sets precedence, it establishes the current timeline and sets the stage for what came 2000 years ago. Thats why i am a judeo-christian, i know my heritage and where i come from and who i am. Zechariah told us who we are.

Yet i have seen you talk about Jesus words being important, but you go on at other times to contradict what he says by interjecting your own opinion and then you go and point the finger at other people? Thats what being "whitewashed" is. You still have unresolved issues in your past that causes you to lash out at christians you do not agree with, even when their views may be no more valid than your own. You also have called me a spiritual infant, when i disagreed with you over the issue of reincarnation. Even if i believe you're in error i'm not going to sit there and tell you you're going to burn in hell, that's not my decision to make, not that i believe there's a hell you burn in because hell is just based on the greek myths of hades the first generation gentile christians used to try and relate to sheol and Gehenna because they weren't raised from the cradle knowing Torah and Tenach.

reply to post by Deetermined

Regardless of whether Jesus was a mystic, Jesus did not teach or preach that people should practice mysticism.

Is he not reported to have told them (his followers) "You are all gods."? That they could do the things he did? To look within and turn from religion's "Priests", because they were unknowing?

I want to again emphasize: Whatever you say "Jesus taught" is only HEARSAY. It's amply proven that there were writings ABOUT him that did not make it into your Bible, for political reasons.

HE DID NOT WRITE ANYTHING DOWN, as far as ANYONE knows, so far. Perhaps he did, and those writings have been destroyed. How can you not be aware that this is a STRONG POSSIBILITY?

Why, or how, are you licensed to tell us all what he did or did NOT teach or preach? You weren't there. You are only telling others what someone else told you.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Deetermined

 

First of all, Abraham honored the same god as his high priest Melchizedek, El Elyon, God of the Most High, or "Father of the Gods."

El Elyon was Yahweh. God told the Israelites to quit confusing the two. Notice how the scripture you quoted said that it was the God Most High who delivered their enemies into their hands.

Deuteronomy 6:4

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

"When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men,
he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
For Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance."

When God separated the sons of men, it only means that he divided the Israelites into 12 tribes and chose to lead the tribe of Jacob himself in order to make it the one in which Jesus would be born as well as the tribe to inherit Abraham's inheritance.

Since Abraham was Isaac's father, I can only assume that they honored the same god. When Yahweh, a lower deity, came to visit Abraham and sat in his tent eating cakes and BBG, they discussed Abraham's offspring, which was the inheritance of Yahweh. He was to be the caretaker of Jacob, the twin of Esau, who honored was not Yahweh's charge.

Yes, they honored the same God. I think I'm going to have to look up the Hebrew words used for "Lord" in Genesis 17, 18 and 19 because there were three "men" that came to visit Abraham and commune with him, in which two of them left to head to Sodom (where they are referred to as angels) and you see Lot calling one of the two angels "Lord" in Genesis 19:18. So that definitely is going to require some research and follow up.

Jesus was teaching people how to reconcile the inner kingdom of God with the outer. You can't do that by killing rebellious teenagers or declaring war on your neighbors because they are assigned a different god.

They weren't assigned different gods. It only shows that they were broken up into 12 different tribes and that God held a special plan for the tribe of Jacob. (to receive Abraham's inheritance). Let's not forget that it was the tribe of Jacob into which Jesus would be born.

I don't believe anything in the New Testament, outside of what Jesus said personally. And even then, some of things that Jesus has been credited with saying and doing, has been proven, by Biblical scholars, to not be case.

For example, the famous conversation with Nicodemus, where Jesus tells him you must be born again, could not have happened the way it's written. Why? Because that conversation is impossible to translate into the Aramaic language, the language that Jesus spoke.

The disciples knew Hebrew and the language that Christ spoke, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Also, the story of the adulterer, and the saying "Let him who without sin cast the first stone" wasn't added to the gospels until after 1000 AD. It most likely never happened.

Do you have a text reference for this, so I can review it for myself? I don't follow videos where I can't research the resources for myself.

Thanks!

This debate reminded me of this !

reply to post by wildtimes

Why, or how, are you licensed to tell us all what he did or did NOT teach or preach? You weren't there. You are only telling others what someone else told you.

I'm telling others what the Bible says, based on the knowledge of those who followed him directly and/or by the power of the Holy Spirit. Sorry if you don't like it.