How I know God exists.

reply to post by Deetermined


all of your questions around page 20. and countless questions you ignored of mine go check

Not to mention EVERY thing else I said that you just brushed off. It happens all the time. you put time in good responses, only to have it ignored, and then a whole new bunch of christians will come in and spam "GOD IS REEEALLLLLLL YESSS" without even comprehending what's been said in the discussion already. Quite the joke.

also, wow at the dogma you're spouting in the last 4 pages.

if jesus was here he would scold you for such behaviour, flip your desk and shout at you

reply to post by MamaJ


/Yawn, christianity is a spiritual brotherhood forged in the blood of the Living God. Not some big giant cathedral in Rome, or some other place.

You should know by now who we are.

reply to post by WorShip


I just read through all of that again, I still don't understand what you're getting at.

I asked questions, you answered them.

What is it that you're wanting to know from me. Do you have another question or do you want me to comment on your replies?

In general, I understand where you are coming from, but your idea of bringing everyone together universally for some kind of mutual understanding and eventual peace, I think is out of reach.

reply to post by WorShip

if jesus was here he would scold you for such behaviour, flip your desk and shout at you

How so? Can you be specific?

reply to post by Deetermined


Your questions were not even defined clearly, and when I asked questions for you to clarify, you simply ignore and move on to ask me a different question when you sense that you cant use that angle? I would ask you to respond to most of the things I said back then but I don't think there's much you can say other then, "I choose to believe the bible no matter what".

Hmm. that disturbs me greatly. You, a follower of jesus, a christian of the "TRUE GOD".. Does not even leave room for saviour or a good oucome for humanity... You're expecting the destruction of it because of a book. Via your humble religion? I'm sorry but that's backwards. Your beliefs create resistance against unity. That is the very thing that will destroy us! Saddening :


Whats to be more specific about? I seem to recall a story from the bible where jesus went into a church and scolded them for the way they behaved, flipped their tables etc.. I'm equating your spouting of religious text, to those men of old who jesus got angry at for the way they practiced religion.

Originally posted by WorShip
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Your questions were not even defined clearly, and when I asked questions for you to clarify, you simply ignore and move on to ask me a different question when you sense that you cant use that angle?

I didn't see you asking me a question, but if there's one I missed, feel free to ask it again and I will clarify it.

I would ask you to respond to most of the things I said back then but I don't think there's much you can say other then, "I choose to believe the bible no matter what".

The Bible has proven itself, so I don't understand why you think I should change my belief in it.

Hmm. that disturbs me greatly. You, a follower of jesus, a christian of the "TRUE GOD".. Does not even leave room for saviour or a good oucome for humanity... You're expecting the destruction of it because of a book. Via your humble religion? I'm sorry but that's backwards. Your beliefs create resistance against unity. That is the very thing that will destroy us! Saddening :

My beliefs don't create anything. Mankind has already proven that it's not capable of unity and it doesn't all revolve around the differences of religion. What's going to destroy us is our leaders. You're right. It's sad.

Whats to be more specific about? I seem to recall a story from the bible where jesus went into a church and scolded them for the way they behaved, flipped their tables etc.. I'm equating your spouting of religious text, to those men of old who jesus got angry at for the way they practiced religion.

Yes, Jesus got frustrated too when people didn't listen to his words. He came to die for his sheep and most of them still don't respect his words today.

it's going to take me a while to compile everything you left out, so i will post it later this evening

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Dustytoad

 

Some of it is obviously Not the word of God unless god hates women? I let God guide me to what I need to see.

Listen, God didn't come along to change every law that they had in place. It didn't have anything to do with hating women. This was a culture from thousands of years ago and the only way of life these people knew at the time. He wasn't going to change their entire culture overnight. Everything in their culture had it's place at that time.

that is exactly my point. The bible is Not the unaltered "word of God."
So like I said I let the spirit guide me.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I do know.... you all are not as closed minded and misguided as others (from my pov). Thats what I know about your brotherhood. You are not all against me but MANY I speak with about what I know about Jesus condemn me to hell and or want to pray for my soul. Sometimes what is said to me is real sad..... that too is what I know about your brotherhood.

I also know that you were once my "friend" on ATS until you denied the friendship as a "foe".

Your heart is either with him or against him and that is what I go by. Intuition and intent of the way you treat others and of course it starts with me as my pov is all I experience first hand.

I believe should be enough for anyone..... all else is just a pov from knowledge we have obtained and some are ahead of others however it doesn't make one view superior.

To think there is a hell fire pit may be something we cannot say for sure. I know it doesnt make sense from what I have learned and the only words I take into heart all picked and chosen from my own convictions. Its personal really.

There are certain words/scriptures that do not reach my spirit and have NEVER reached it. I find there is no truth but mans truth in some of the Bible. My personal relationship with God deciphers such and if it doesn't with you and you believe it all to the core of your being then I am happy for you.

Your brotherhood is not one that I want to include myself in because I want a more personal relationship with him.

Thank God, Im free to do so.

reply to post by Deetermined


Go back to this post and explain to me what he means in each if you feel the need because you can't just quote all of that and not tell me your pov. I mean.... your own words didn't make sense to me at all.
www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=15553373#pid15553373

Im not against you. I know God exists and I believe in Jesus.

I just do not take your word from God... He teaches me from my angle... my pov. Its personal.

He is more and I can tell you how if you would lighten up and not set yourself above me just yet. You are saved... I believe you. lol

reply to post by Deetermined


Exactly.... Satan to you is not the same as my pov of who or what Satan is.

There is the first puzzle we have that appears to be in conflict.

You pieced Satan as a being and I didn't/don't.

ETA: Believe it or not.... there are others who still group them self with your "hood" but not all believe as you do.

en.wikipedia.org...

Liberal Christianity often views the devil metaphorically. This is true of some Conservative Christian groups too, such as the Christadelphians and the Church of the Blessed Hope. Much of the popular lore of the Devil is not biblical; instead, it is a post-medieval Christian reading of the scriptures influenced by medieval and pre-medieval Christian popular mythology.

To some... "Satan" is an adversary, an opponent in your mind. It tells your subconscious... "aw.... it will be ok if I do this or say that... noone will know". Makes you cuss somewhat out and scream in rush hour traffic. We are all in error within our mind. Its a battle.. just as it is inside us. Our cells fight the fight 24/7. A person that you allow to break your spirit is "Satan". Sometimes you yourself are Satan. Its a state of consciousness in my opinion.

reply to post by Dustytoad


That made absolutely no sense. Do you care to elaborate?

reply to post by MamaJ

I know God exists and I believe in Jesus.

I just do not take your word from God... He teaches me from my angle... my pov. Its personal.

That's been my point in this thread all along. The Word of God is important in understanding who Jesus was and what he taught. If you choose not to study or believe what he taught, it may not be Jesus who's teaching you. Jesus doesn't teach you "from your angle". He expects you to learn from his angle. You've already admitted that you only take to heart the scriptures that you want to believe and it might become a stumbling block for you.

The Bible verses I posted from Matthew 7 is proof that not everyone who believes in Jesus will be acknowledged by him at the time of judgement.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Exactly.... Satan to you is not the same as my pov of who or what Satan is.

There is the first puzzle we have that appears to be in conflict.

You pieced Satan as a being and I didn't/don't.

I didn't piece Satan together as a being, Jesus did. All of those verses I posted were Jesus' words. You should listen to him. Let me post one of them again...

Matthew 4:10 (Jesus speaking)

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

When Jesus was in the garden praying, Satan came to him and tried to convince Jesus to worship him instead of God. Read the whole chapter. Satan is not a concept. Satan was once an angel/cherub in heaven who was cast out for thinking he could steal God's throne away from him. Satan is just one of many fallen angels trying to lead people away from God. Angels were given free will just like us.

ETA: Believe it or not.... there are others who still group them self with your "hood" but not all believe as you do.

en.wikipedia.org...

Liberal Christianity often views the devil metaphorically. This is true of some Conservative Christian groups too, such as the Christadelphians and the Church of the Blessed Hope. Much of the popular lore of the Devil is not biblical; instead, it is a post-medieval Christian reading of the scriptures influenced by medieval and pre-medieval Christian popular mythology.

That's the problem today. Satan is trying to break up Christianity and lead people to their own "feel good" religion, while still calling it Christianity.

Why do you think mythology even exists? Along with Satan, there were other fallen angels (gods) leading people astray from God. Satan has his followers too, just like God.

To some... "Satan" is an adversary, an opponent in your mind. It tells your subconscious... "aw.... it will be ok if I do this or say that... noone will know". Makes you cuss somewhat out and scream in rush hour traffic. We are all in error within our mind. Its a battle.. just as it is inside us. Our cells fight the fight 24/7. A person that you allow to break your spirit is "Satan". Sometimes you yourself are Satan. Its a state of consciousness in my opinion.

The Bible makes it VERY CLEAR that Satan is more than a state of consciousness.

reply to post by MamaJ


Honestly, Mamaj, I only ask that you refrain from telling people what Jesus wanted if it contradicts what he taught.

I personally have a problem with people trying to use Jesus to pull people away from his entire message by cherry picking scripture. This is a tactic that Satan loves. He would love nothing more than to have people think that Jesus was just a prophet who came to earth to teach people to love their neighbor and that was it. It's not that simple.

The verses I posted from John 10 make it clear that Jesus is the door and no one gets to the Father but through him and him alone. Why? Because Jesus is God in the flesh. By using any other source to access God, you're only using "thieves and robbers" to try and get to Heaven.

I have a feeling the agnostics and atheists gave up on this thread as a lost cause.
It's just the choir now.

reply to post by Toadmund


It's become an argument between fundamentalist Christians' and Gnostic Christians' philosophies. At this point, the misunderstandings between the two are too far apart, for reconciliation.

The problem is that neither side knows their own philosophies well enough to see that they will never find common ground.

It's like one player is armed with badminton gear, while other is ready to play tennis.

reply to post by Toadmund


If I'm not mistaken, isn't anyone free to bring up and discuss again anything that's been posted previously?

Feel free to pick up where you left off.

Just in case you forgot this thread is titled "I know God exists", that we do agree on.

Below in this quote you imply I do not study or believe what Jesus taught and I can assure you your implying a falsehood. Truth be known, I have probably studied hundreds of hours on my own... more than you. You continue to place yourself above me and that is your ego talking. Come down off your high horse and lets get real.
My angle is called a pov. I am giving you an excuse as to why you continue to also imply Jesus means this or that when I am telling you I DONT GET THAT when I read and study. I know your "type" of Christian Philosophy and I am telling you I do not agree. So be it. How can you be so bold as to tell me I do not know him ...but you do? I feel sorry for you more now than I ever have since becoming a member.

If you choose not to study or believe what he taught, it may not be Jesus who's teaching you. Jesus doesn't teach you "from your angle". He expects you to learn from his angle. You've already admitted that you only take to heart the scriptures that you want to believe and it might become a stumbling block for you.

reply to post by Deetermined

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. When Jesus was in the garden praying, Satan came to him and tried to convince Jesus to worship him instead of God. Read the whole chapter. Satan is not a concept. Satan was once an angel/cherub in heaven who was cast out for thinking he could steal God's throne away from him. Satan is just one of many fallen angels trying to lead people away from God. Angels were given free will just like us.

Jesus did not teach or imply Satan was a being.... that is a myth. Its open for interpretation. My dad being a Minister will tell you the same thing. Hades is a real place on Earth too. You still read the Bible from flesh...not spirit. But thats ok.... doesn't hurt me a bit.

In each of us there is light and darkness. Learn about those two and you will see that Jesus is the light and "Satan" is the opposite. Its a concept and not some devil being running around tempting people. The Bible is layered and if you don't see that fact, I suggest you study a lot more with your "alone time" and get in the spirit of his Word. It doesn't lie to your soul and spirit. Decipher for yourself because he wants you in a personal way and will get on your level of understanding as I cannot do it for you.

That's the problem today. Satan is trying to break up Christianity and lead people to their own "feel good" religion, while still calling it Christianity. Why do you think mythology even exists? Along with Satan, there were other fallen angels (gods) leading people astray from God. Satan has his followers too, just like God.

Maybe the problem today is religious people feeling as if they are the only ones superior over another and it causes wars and strife and not unity. Jesus taught AGAINST religion. Here are just two... but there are more.

"You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you: ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping... because *they teach commands of men* as doctrines.’” --Matthew 15:7,8
Hsa 5:7 For they have betrayed the honor of the LORD, bearing children that aren't his. Now their false religion will devour them, along with their wealth.

Its what is in your heart, not the specifics of mens doctrines. Follow your heart when reading the Bible as mens hands were a part of it. Thats worth noting on a grand scale. If you believe Satan to be a deceiving devil.... you may end up reaping what you believe. Be wise when deciphering. It seems as you learn from man... and not your heart where Jesus is found.

The Bible makes it VERY CLEAR that Satan is more than a state of consciousness.

Where? Show me.

Honestly, Mamaj, I only ask that you refrain from telling people what Jesus wanted if it contradicts what he taught.

Honestly, Mamaj, I only ask that you refrain from telling people what Jesus wanted if it contradicts what he taught.

You cannot stop my light from shining.... sorry.

I personally have a problem with people trying to use Jesus to pull people away from his entire message by cherry picking scripture. This is a tactic that Satan loves. He would love nothing more than to have people think that Jesus was just a prophet who came to earth to teach people to love their neighbor and that was it. It's not that simple. The verses I posted from John 10 make it clear that Jesus is the door and no one gets to the Father but through him and him alone. Why? Because Jesus is God in the flesh. By using any other source to access God, you're only using "thieves and robbers" to try and get to Heaven.

reply to post by Deetermined


I personally do not care what your problems are, that is on you to figure out WHY you have such a hard time being a student of Jesus and not a student of man.

Cherry picking scripture is called deciphering, something we all must do as Jesus asked us to do so. He wants us to know real teachers by their fruit and this means to decipher and take heed you are not deceived. If Satan is such a deceiver and rules this world do you not think he would want to deceive you from every would can take to heart.... every single which way he could including the Bible? Your Satan wants your soul right? Its just ridiculous.

Someone who makes a careful study of the Bible can identify false doctrine. For example, a believer who has read the activities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matthew 3:16-17 will immediately question any doctrine that denies the Trinity. Therefore, step one is to study the Bible and judge all teaching by what the Scripture says. Teach yourself and stop relying on mans teachings. Jesus speaks to your heart.

Thieves and Robbers take and not give. Be a giver and not a judge of man, including me. You are not worthy nor do you have the knowledge to do so.

No one get to the father but through him because he is the light of this world. He is the Son of God and he is our Story. You really don't see what I see. My truth is Jesus believe it or not but man does not teach me.... my heart does.