Gay Marriage is Wrong and I am not a Homophobe, page 3

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reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:01 PM by OtherSideOfTheCoin

reply to post by buster2010

You claim to have homosexual friends but you have no problem with them being screwed out of rights that you enjoy

Homosexual couples have the exact same rights as same sex couples under a civil partnerships so your point is totally mute.

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:02 PM by snowspirit

Currently in the UK it is legal for homosexuals to enter into a civil partnership, this is not a religious ceremony it is a legal one I entirely agree with this. However the institution of marriage in the UK is a religious one that is based on religious dogma, and not the word of government.

So in the UK, if 2 straight people are NOT religious, they have to enter a civil partnership, and they are not allowed to be married?
That's the only way your statement of religious reasons makes any sense.

Do they (those with civil partnerships) get all the same rights as "married"?
*****this question answered above.

edit on 13-12-2012 by snowspirit because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:03 PM by Xcalibur254

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Ideally the government wouldn't be involved. Two consenting adults, regardless of gender or sex, should be able to get married/tie the knot/be civilly partnered without legislation from the government. As it stands now though the UK government has gotten involved and in their involvement they have designated one legal status for heterosexual couples and and one for homosexual couples. While at the moment they are theoretically equal as long as they remain separate the possibility remains that legislation could be passed for one status and not the other. Furthermore by creating separate statuses you create the distinction that there are two classes of citizens. All of these people are citizens of the UK so why do we need to separate them based on something like sexual orientation when it comes to civil marriage?

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:04 PM by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
For government to impose their ideology of total liberalism upon religion, to force religion to change its values and tradition is tantamount to forced religious discrimination it is a huge contradiction in their ideology. We see the same when it comes to another liberal buzz word “sexism” it is “sexual discrimination” to forbid women bishops and as such the church mush change its way in the face of its tradition. Much like Sexism the government is now imposing yet another change upon the church in the name of “discrimination” with their views on homosexuality.

Uh Huh...if the Church is really seeking a separation from the state, then they can start paying taxes. Any other 'not-for-profit' is accountable to civil law.

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:06 PM by Ghost375

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

"People get married because the government provides them with rights that people who are married received. It's a game plan to help each other financially. Other people do it because of religious and personal reasons as it's an important step in growing up in their culture."

You have a twisted and sick set of morals....

People are supposed to get married because they love each other.

Plus you really don't understand kids. This is how a real conversation would play out:

Kid "Me and Jack are going to get married!"
Dad "You can't marry Jack"
Kid "That's not what our teacher says."

It WILL lead to very awkward and difficult situations that could upset children's delicate psychological balance.

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:06 PM by AfterInfinity

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Why, why is it homophobic for me to say that I oppose gay marriage because of my religious believes. That means that if I uphold and defend my religious believes I am declared homophobic or I alter my religious believes to appease liberal bigotry, why are religious people being demonised by holding a religious view.

Homophobic is the wrong word. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing based on religious beliefs. When they go from personal opinion to legal policy, that's where the problem is. Your personal beliefs do not give you the right to oppress the rights of others, especially when heterosexual couples are given free reign.

What's next? Interracial marriage? Drawing a line makes it tempting to draw a circle, and circles tend to lead to discrimination, ostracizing, harassment, persecution, and witch hunts. In that order. It's happened before, and you're just asking for it to happen again. If this is the land of the free, then by your god, LET IT BE FREE.

Otherwise, we're a country of hypocrites. Oh yeah, come to America where you can get a job and a home no matter what color skin you have or what god you bow to. But if you happen to love the same sex, then forget it, go away. Prostitution, abortions, and racism are perfectly acceptable, but not love? Seriously? That's the example we're setting?

Good grief.

Homosexual couples have the exact same rights as same sex couples under a civil partnerships so your point is totally mute.

Then everyone should have a civil partnership, not marriage. Don't play favorites - everyone gets the same thing. Land of equal opportunity, right?

If you are not religious and wish to enter into a legally binding commitment to your partner you don’t need to go to a church, just head to a registry office.

Maybe I'll set up a gay church in my area.

edit on 13-12-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:07 PM by dorkfish87

Where I grew up, we had a saying. "If you feel the need to say you aren't racist, you're probably racist."

I say yo you sir, if you say something and add to the end " but I'm not a homophobe" then you likely are.

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:07 PM by OtherSideOfTheCoin

reply to post by snowspirit

If you are not religious and wish to enter into a legally binding commitment to your partner you don’t need to go to a church, just head to a registry office.

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:09 PM by boymonkey74

reply to post by Ghost375

If your son loves Jack then why can he not get married?
It sounds like you do not want a gay son.
I say tell kids about same sex partnerships at an early age because then they will accept it as something that is ok to be.
I was told about my Uncle who is gay at around 6 it helped me understand about gay people and that a man can love another man etc did me no harm.

edit on 13-12-2012 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:10 PM by Raelsatu

Marriage is a religious tradition, but also carries legal rights with it. Although civil unions do carry legal rights as well, they are still not completely equal. You can just look up the legal differences to find out. Civil unions are not recognized federally or in many states either.

So the solution would be to make marriage an independent tradition, separate from legal rights; with the addition of a civil union in conjunction. That way couples would have equal legal rights by way of civil union, but the marriage would be optional. Or vice versa. So if a church allowed gay marriage, a couple could set it up and have their marriage day. Same for straight couples.

However, churches cannot be forced to marry gay couples. It wouldn't make any sense to force a religious institution to go against its beliefs. I think this would be the most logical compromise.

edit on 13-12-2012 by Raelsatu because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:11 PM by OtherSideOfTheCoin

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Homophobic is the wrong word. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing based on religious beliefs. When they go from personal opinion to legal policy, that's where the problem is. Your personal beliefs do not give you the right to oppress the rights of others, especially when heterosexual couples are given free reign.

That is a very good point, yes if I was using my believes to oppress the rights of others I would agree with you however this law does operose the law of religious institutions so why is it right to oppress the rights of homosexuals over religious institutions.

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:12 PM by Credenceskynyrd

Originally posted by GhostyMew
Making same sex marriage legal is not giving the LGBT community power over straight people. It's giving equal power. Well, near equal power.

"power" what power?

Why get married in somewhere that doesn't want you?

Utterly preposterous state of affairs- a true liberal society would allow those religious places that want to marry homosexual couples to be able to do so, and NOT FORCE those religious places that do not want to marry homosexual couples to do so.

The whole thing is ridiculous, civil partnerships give homosexual couples the recognition by the state, that is fair enough

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:12 PM by seeker1963

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

My question to you is simple. How is allowing gay people to get married hurting YOU???

Provide some examples of how this is "personally" affecting your life in a negative manner that cause harm to any individual.........

Can't do it can you?

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:13 PM by Xcalibur254

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

And those people will still enter into a civil marriage. A civil marriage is distinct from a religious marriage. A religious marriage has no legal standing. A civil marriage does though. So why should same sex couples be denied a legal status that heterosexual couples have access to that has nothing to do with religious beliefs? All the current legislation achieves is in creating two separate classes of citizens based on sexual orientation.

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:13 PM by OtherSideOfTheCoin

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Then everyone should have a civil partnership, not marriage

I have already addressed this point, if you want to say the only way to negate this paradox of liberal ideology is to say that everyone enters into a civil partnership and no more marriage then you are only further eroding religious practices it is not a solution it would only make things worse

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:14 PM by AfterInfinity

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

You have a point. Churches should not be forced to change to suit the governmental values, because it would not happen the other way either. However, I think your title should have been thus:

"Forcing Churches To Marry Gay Couples Is Wrong"

Wouldn't that have been more to the point?

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:16 PM by AfterInfinity

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Well then, I agree with you. You are willing to offer a compromise that makes everyone happy, and I respect that.

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:16 PM by OtherSideOfTheCoin

reply to post by Xcalibur254

Again same sex couples in a civil partnership have the exact same rights as heterosexual couples in a marriage.

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:17 PM by Raelsatu

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I have already addressed this point, if you want to say the only way to negate this paradox of liberal ideology is to say that everyone enters into a civil partnership and no more marriage then you are only further eroding religious practices it is not a solution it would only make things worse

No. The idea is to make civil partnerships the procedure for legal rights. Marriage would still be a tradition/ religious practice for couples. If a church allowed for gay marriage that would be fine, and if they didn't, also fine.

reply posted on 13-12-2012 @ 06:17 PM by azamber

reply to post by Ghost375

You are opposed to gay marriage because it makes you uncomfortable talking to your kids about it? I am heterosexual, and I didn't have any problem telling my kids that families come in many forms, some have a mommy and daddy, some have two mommies, or two daddies, or just one of either. What is so difficult about that? I feel sorry for your children if you can't bear to hear them question their sexuality. Do you know how many LGBT youths commit SUICIDE because they don't get the acceptance of their families and peers? Think about what THAT will do to your KID, not what your child's sexuality will do to YOU!

As for the entire issue of gay marriage, what is the government doing in it anyway? Or why should it be exclusively a religious thing? Marriage should be declared between consenting adults and be recognized by society as legitimate. As it stands now, poor people who can't afford a marriage license in the US can not get married, either!