China asks army to be ready for regional war

Originally posted by carlosamado13
reply to post by Drunkenparrot

 

remember that when WWII started there was a time of peace, yes maybe local unrest in countries due to their own problems, but in peace, and the same for the times before WWI. there is calm before the storm and there is calm after the storm before another one comes. eventhough it may seem not really possible at these times remember that we dont know everything that happens on the higher seats and we are blind and deaf to most of what they say and do.

Internal conflicts such as the Bolshevik Revolution or rise of National Socialism aside...

There was only 20 years between World War I and World War II during which Japan invaded Manchuria, Italy invaded Ethiopia, Bolivia and Paraguay fought for three years to control Gran Chaco etc.

In the 20 years prior to WWI there was the Russo-Japanese War, the Boer Wars and the Turkish-Italian War.

Historically, we've never had it this peaceful.

Although in fairness to your point, as noted in the article I sourced above...

"The facts are not in dispute here; the question is what is going on," John Mearsheimer, a professor of political science at the University of Chicago and author of "The Tragedy of Great Power Politics."

"It's been 21 years since the Cold War ended and the United States has been at war for 14 out of those 21 years," Mearsheimer said. "If war has been burned out of the system, why do we have NATO and why has NATO been pushed eastward...? Why are we spending more money on defense than all other countries in the world put together?"

What's happening is that the U.S. is acting as a "pacifier" keeping the peace all over the world, Mearsheimer said. He said like-minded thinkers, who call themselves "realists" believe "that power matters because the best way to survive is to be really powerful." And he worries that a strengthening China is about to upset the world power picture and may make the planet bloodier again.

And Goldstein points out that even though a nuclear attack hasn't occurred in 66 years – one nuclear bomb could change this trend in an instant.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Ben81
japan have no chance against china and they know it
but they feel secure because they have nuke

i found japan also very arrogant in this island conflict

china is running out thin of patience and it can be dangerous for japan

China only picks on weaker nations. US would support Japan. China would destroyed in a matter of weeks and the new China carrier sunk almost instantly. China only started caring about the islands once it was known they were worth something, Japan has been in control of them for a very long time, and they were privately owned by a Japanese national.

Anyone who thinks this will escalate into war is delusional. China would be like an ant under the heel of a giant boot that is the American forces.

ETA: A link that shows how rediculous China's demands are.
newsimg.bbc.co.uk...

edit on 15-12-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

Realistically that's not possible. China is a vast country and would take months if not years to conquer. Chinese have advanced very quickly there military is well capable of defending itself against attacks from the United States or any other nation.

American-China war who'd win be only a guess for the most part. America and China also have their own secret military projects, so we don't know what kind of secret black projects each other has really! China might have started developing military technologies the US has not even begun to do yet or envisage. China could be way behind the United States with newer military technologies? But realistically the United States has been at the game lot longer, so it probably does have better stuff than China?.

China and America fighting each other would likely cripple each others economy . Nuclear weapons been used very possible. America and China will look very different once the guns stop firing and the bombs stop falling and the aftermath is clear to see. No longer can world powers clash afford to clash ( have a big fight and than go home again to their homes and wives and kids and be happy again) Nuclear weapons has changed the ball game unfortunately.

Remember also the Chinese have no fear of defeat. They went up against the United States ( a superpower) and their allies. That took some balls if you think about it really ( china was militarily weak and poor in the 50's) but still it did not stop them, from declaring war on the UN forces. America was a superpower and only nuclear powered country than. China, took a risk and it paid off.

Originally posted by P12SOLD

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Ben81
japan have no chance against china and they know it
but they feel secure because they have nuke

i found japan also very arrogant in this island conflict

china is running out thin of patience and it can be dangerous for japan

China only picks on weaker nations. US would support Japan. China would destroyed in a matter of weeks and the new China carrier sunk almost instantly. China only started caring about the islands once it was known they were worth something, Japan has been in control of them for a very long time, and they were privately owned by a Japanese national.

Anyone who thinks this will escalate into war is delusional. China would be like an ant under the heel of a giant boot that is the American forces.

ETA: A link that shows how rediculous China's demands are.
newsimg.bbc.co.uk...

edit on 15-12-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

Realistically that's not possible. China is a vast country and would take months if not years to conquer. Chinese have advanced very quickly there military is well capable of defending itself against attacks from the United States or any other nation.

American-China war who'd win be only a guess for the most part. America and China also have their own secret military projects, so we don't know what kind of secret black projects each other has really! China might have started developing military technologies the US has not even begun to do yet or envisage. China could be way behind the United States with newer military technologies? But realistically the United States has been at the game lot longer, so it probably does have better stuff than China?.

China and America fighting each other would likely cripple each others economy . Nuclear weapons been used very possible. America and China will look very different once the guns stop firing and the bombs stop falling and the aftermath is clear to see. No longer can world powers clash afford to clash ( have a big fight and than go home again to their homes and wives and kids and be happy again) Nuclear weapons has changed the ball game unfortunately.

Remember also the Chinese have no fear of defeat. They went up against the United States ( a superpower) and their allies. That took some balls if you think about it really ( china was militarily weak and poor in the 50's) but still it did not stop them, from declaring war on the UN forces. America was a superpower and only nuclear powered country than. China, took a risk and it paid off.

Why would we conquer them? We would simply bomb them into surrendering. They would be disposed of very quickly. China would not launch Nukes as we have very sophistocated defenses and our counter-nukes would 100% go through and turn them into glass. We would impose rediculous sanctions, have them cancel all debt, and most likely have a positive economic outcome as we forced them to continue to supply cheap goods.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


That's a slippery slope though..

They launch nukes, we launch nukes.. their allies launch nukes our allies launch nukes and next thing you know the world itself is turned into a giant blown glass marble.

I don't think either side is interested in a nuclear war. It would be suicide for everyone... They know it and we know it.

No.. it would be a ground war fought with all sorts of other nasty WMDs .. which would be a slower suicide for all parties involved...

At least then we'd find out of someone discovered the zombie virus...

US-Japanese relations at the highest level seem to have been quite volatile for the past few years due to the constant change in Japanese leadership since Abe was voted out the first time. With him back, I expect a reemergence of Japanese hypernationalism. Abe has a super majority pretty much and can do all that he wants.

The Japan-US defense treaty has worked for Japan until now but I think they want their own sovereignty back--absolute self-defense is quite important to that.

Physical domination is decadent warfare. Today you fight economic warfare. Why put boots on the ground and destroy your future ownings when you can leave the people, leave the infrastructure, and just own all the money. Then you hold all the leverage.

I think China is waiting on domestic consumption to pick up and allow them to actually have some self-sufficiency. As it is, they are cooked without foreign consumption

Originally posted by josefrees
US-Japanese relations at the highest level seem to have been quite volatile for the past few years due to the constant change in Japanese leadership since Abe was voted out the first time. With him back, I expect a reemergence of Japanese hypernationalism. Abe has a super majority pretty much and can do all that he wants.

Abe wasn't voted out. He resigned shortly after two of his cabinet ministers were implicated in financial scandals citing health reasons and his own extreme unpopularity.

As far as "hypernationalism" goes - Japan and the Japanese are a long way from that. Hell, only something like 50% of the population turned out to vote this time around. It's going to take a lot more than Abe to get people whipped into hypernationalism (however you'd define it).

Everyone has been claiming that this is a massive swing to the right for Japan, and I can't fathom why. The LDP is centrist - and so is the DPJ that they're replacing. This is a move to the right of about 0.5 degrees, and it wasn't made because people are suddenly enchanted with Abe - it happened because people thought the DPJ were making a hash of things and wanted them out. Even Abe has admitted as much.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by P12SOLD

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Ben81
japan have no chance against china and they know it
but they feel secure because they have nuke

i found japan also very arrogant in this island conflict

china is running out thin of patience and it can be dangerous for japan

China only picks on weaker nations. US would support Japan. China would destroyed in a matter of weeks and the new China carrier sunk almost instantly. China only started caring about the islands once it was known they were worth something, Japan has been in control of them for a very long time, and they were privately owned by a Japanese national.

Anyone who thinks this will escalate into war is delusional. China would be like an ant under the heel of a giant boot that is the American forces.

ETA: A link that shows how rediculous China's demands are.
newsimg.bbc.co.uk...

edit on 15-12-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

Realistically that's not possible. China is a vast country and would take months if not years to conquer. Chinese have advanced very quickly there military is well capable of defending itself against attacks from the United States or any other nation.

American-China war who'd win be only a guess for the most part. America and China also have their own secret military projects, so we don't know what kind of secret black projects each other has really! China might have started developing military technologies the US has not even begun to do yet or envisage. China could be way behind the United States with newer military technologies? But realistically the United States has been at the game lot longer, so it probably does have better stuff than China?.

China and America fighting each other would likely cripple each others economy . Nuclear weapons been used very possible. America and China will look very different once the guns stop firing and the bombs stop falling and the aftermath is clear to see. No longer can world powers clash afford to clash ( have a big fight and than go home again to their homes and wives and kids and be happy again) Nuclear weapons has changed the ball game unfortunately.

Remember also the Chinese have no fear of defeat. They went up against the United States ( a superpower) and their allies. That took some balls if you think about it really ( china was militarily weak and poor in the 50's) but still it did not stop them, from declaring war on the UN forces. America was a superpower and only nuclear powered country than. China, took a risk and it paid off.

Why would we conquer them? We would simply bomb them into surrendering. They would be disposed of very quickly. China would not launch Nukes as we have very sophistocated defenses and our counter-nukes would 100% go through and turn them into glass. We would impose rediculous sanctions, have them cancel all debt, and most likely have a positive economic outcome as we forced them to continue to supply cheap goods.

Mate, you live in dream land.

China has the biggest land army in the world and has pretty much the same type of military technology the United States has got ( maybe even superior technology?) If you want to argue about numbers (yes) the Americans have more, guns, tanks, planes, and subs. But lot of this technology is being used elsewhere and will take ages to move to a conflict situation against China. America, is also broke. Who's going to pay for this war?

Beating China will not be an easy task, they'll see you coming and they will react aggressively to your moves. Their ant--aircraft systems will be state of the art,so their is high chance of most of your bombers been blown out of the sky. I'm not underestimating the US military, but you're living in a fantasy world, if you believe can just bomb them into surrendering. Most big wars require a ground invasion to finish it ( unless you use nukes) to force them to surrender. Hate to burst your bubble, but their is no adequate defense against an ICBM ( Nuclear tipped warhead)

The fact is a conventional war between China and United States will be unpredictable. China has about 400 to 500 officially known about nukes the Americans maybe 1000 plus ( but their is the unknowns) Their is no winner in a conflict between China and America.

America knew they could not beat the Russians ( and vice versa) during the cold war ( the same scenario exists here)

I would say I'm really not sure what's going on because I'm just getting more into world news. One thing is all of these wars going on with these different countries gets so tireing. The Chinese and Japanese are very good in technology. Who knows what they are creating nowadays.

Social Networking for People of Color: www.huelinks.com

Starred and flagged.

I for one don't want Beijing to fight Japan. The Japanese may not have a particularly strong army, but our navy has never been as good as theirs. Moreover, if the US gets involved, then victory is nearly impossible. The Americans have got themselves involved in numerous wars in recent years, while China has been in none at all. The American soldiers have much more hands-on experience than the People's Liberation Army.

Corruption is another big problem. Although Xi has tried to combat corruption after becoming the new leader of the CCP, the problem is so serious that it is difficult if not impossible to bring it down to a reasonable level any time soon.

The first time in modern history that Japan attacked us was the First Sino-Japanese War, known in Chinese as the Jiawu War. We had the upper hand at first, but then we ran out of ammunition, thanks to corruption. The Beiyang fleets were completely annihilated. The consequences were catastrophic to say the least. The powers all tried to expand their sphere of influence in China. A famous cartoon at the time depicts the powers each getting a slice of China.

Consider the present situation. Since Naoto Kan, Japan has been trying to bring up the problem again, which is supposed to be shelved. The US is pretending not to have a stance, but in reality, the US are eager to use Japan to expand their influence in East Asia and is happy to 'protect' Japan. If we attack Japan, the US may declare war, and I don't want to know what will happen next.

While the Diaoyu Islands are most certainly Chinese, it would be unwise to attack Japan just for them.

Originally posted by diqiushiwojia
Starred and flagged.
While the Diaoyu Islands are most certainly Chinese, it would be unwise to attack Japan just for them.

edit on 21-12-2012 by diqiushiwojia because: Starred and flagged.

Since when? If this is true why were they not given to China after WWII like all the other Chinese territory Japan had?

Just an FYI, US treaties with Japan mandate US defense in case of war, that is why the Japanese have no army. The US has guaranteed them full support in any war, which means the complete might of the US Military.

I agree, very stupid to go to war over islands China never cared about until they were found to be resource rich and China wanted to be a bully. Here is to hoping for peace.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by diqiushiwojia
Starred and flagged. for them.

edit on 21-12-2012 by diqiushiwojia because: Starred and flagged.

peace.

Well, here's food for thought.

We have an evil cabal in the west that likes starting wars & throwing around fear of communism.

First, you have to understand that western powers have strategically placed themselves around the globe in an attempt to create military strongholds against the spread of communism.

WW2 was actually a lot more related to the Chinese civil war than many people think. We partner with China on many levels but all that completely changes when it comes to the issue of absolute power.

What Chinese did we side with during the Chinese civil war? The Nationalists of course & mainly, I believe, because the Nationalists were the most needy in that fight & willing to take our help. They were compromised between a rock & a hard place & this gives us an edge. There was also a territory arrangement that gave Taiwan which was a part of Japan to the Nationalists & gave us a place to base while dealing with the Japanese. i was told by someone although i can't find anything on it, that we hid titan missiles in Taiwan.

Even though we were not at war with Chinese communist at that point in time, it was a BIG concern for the western elites. This communism in china that has made it so strong, was one of our main concerns in that region & the elites wanted to drag any little country over there into it to be taken over & made a strong hold. Many conflicts that have nothing to do with China actually do indirectly relate to the fear of China's power.

take a look at what followed... our involvements with countries geographically strategic to China.

The elites knew that one day, the fight for global power would fall between powerful communist China & western economies. they've known this for ages. China knows it as well so it's strange to watch the relationship between us and china... because it's very edgy. Some in our country want that relationship to be good but some DO NOT & they want to fight China. It is the only way that the western power will stay on top... to interfere with china's growth in power.

I'm not saying it's going to happen.
I'm not saying the president wants it because i don't know what he wants.
I'm not saying you should even be concerned.

what I'm saying is that we did not spend so many lives & resources fighting against communism & setting up all these little strongholds just to forget all about it. If those jackasses (elites) get their way, WW3 will come.

China knows this but I think would rather be partners because our consumerism has helped make them strong... & so have our own follies but that's not their fault, really.

Now we are yet again in another middle eastern country siding with terrorists (true terrorists)

Are we going to bomb the crap out of one of China's main fuel sources just like the plan says? which will slow things down for them...& is what israel wants.... or are we going to take a more open minded approach & stay out of it and deal with whatever happens to the economy? (which is what we should do, screw the almighty dollar...we will still have food & fuel even if it crashes)

The answer is...it doesn't matter.

Even if we stay out of it, there's a likelihood that the elite will still get their war no matter what which will end up destroying Iran & thereby involving china & possibly even spreading further into Asia.

So China has this Island off it's coast and it's a tiny Island.... and no, it's not the resources.... those are just excuses.

It's a place to base & China is preparing to go to war.

In other words, it's another local danger to them and they probably see now that the cabal is not going to stop... and that if they do go to war, it's not just going to be with japan. It's going to be with the crusading, communist and Muslim fearing power that pulls the strings of the world....whether US takes a back seat or not.

Don't you see how convenient it is that we have this allied agreement with Japan?

That whole measure has helped keep china out of japan for decades.... this is no coincidence.

I don't think it has anything to do with the Islands other than they do not want Japan or the west using it as some sort of temporary base. I think china thinks war is coming whether they start it or not...and so they suddenly perceive a need to lock, load and secure their area.

I believe a lot of this wouldn't be happening at all if it weren't for the obvious middle eastern conspiracies... & a person has to be pretty dumb to not notice at least SOMETHING going on by now.

We see it.

Is this stopping them? No.

The cabal is shamelessly doing it right in the public eye.

They are not going to stop... & so I think China has every reason to get ready because no one knows where this will end.

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
There was also a territory arrangement that gave Taiwan which was a part of Japan to the Nationalists & gave us a place to base while dealing with the Japanese. i was told by someone although i can't find anything on it, that we hid titan missiles in Taiwan.

Taiwan was given to the ROC at the END of WWII. Taiwan had only been a Japanese territory for about 50 years. It was not given to the ROC to fight the Japanese from, as the war was over when it happened.

The rest of your post lacks any knowledge of history. It's not a coincidence we have a treaty with Japan to keep China out. At the time of the treaty China was not Communist. At the time of the treaty Japan could have (and did) conquered China.

Once you brush up on history you might lose some of these positions you hold rooted in myth, not reality.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
There was also a territory arrangement that gave Taiwan which was a part of Japan to the Nationalists & gave us a place to base while dealing with the Japanese. i was told by someone although i can't find anything on it, that we hid titan missiles in Taiwan.

Once you brush up on history you might lose some of these positions you hold rooted in myth, not reality.

edit on 22-12-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

First, get this straight... While in the throes of war, final territory arrangement can wait until all the chips have fallen. What you are citing is the mere documentation of such arrangements that anyone can read for themselves. That doesn't exactly take a lot of wisdom to repeat.

The ROC is where the Nationalists relocated to. Prior to that, it was Japan. After the war, it was not given back to Japan and it was not given to China. The ROC AT THAT TIME was to be set up as it's own government and that is exactly what happened. It was separate from the People's republic of China and called just the republic of China.... carried over from the Nationalists.

The fact that Taiwan is now recognized as a province of mainland China is a completely separate issue.... because Taiwan was promised to the Nationalists (because these things don't just get decided over night) who intended to set it up as it's own Nation. It had a totally different government (a notably democratic one) and had a flourishing economy giving it a place as one of the 4 Asian tigers. Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan.

I'm not sure when the UN started calling Taiwan a province of China again but I do believe it is very strange seeing as how Taiwan economy was considered a strength on it's own. Clearly it was heavily related to American corporatism because of everything that was made there, but now it seems they may just be stamping it all "made in China" as well.

Going back to the issue of our cooperation with the Nationalists... are you completely unaware of that cooperation DURING the war? Does it specifically need to be written to you in black and white that we cooperated with Chinese Nationalists in ww2 and made many arrangements with them? Japan surrendered Taiwan to the ROC on behalf of the Allies. They surrendered to the allies because we had nukes, but they gave Taiwan to the Nationalist "on behalf" of the allies....and why? Because that is who WE said Taiwan was to go to for their cooperation with allied forces against Japanese soldiers on the Islands of Japan. ...because of OUR DEALS.

Who knew the area best? They did.
Were we supposed to be getting involved in the Chinese civil war? Not really but they scratched our back and we scratched theirs. Don't even sit there and try to pretend like we allowed the Nationalists to believe for decades that they had their own country (ROC) that the corporate world now just sees as an extension of China... and why? Because it served it's purpose for us in the WW2 era and there's no real reason for the elites to stick up for it's sovereignty anymore. They basically just used the Nationalists fight to take some bullets from the Japanese for US... and Taiwan was their reward. Get some intuition. It's really not that hard to figure out.

Read the following quote...

In 1971, the PRC assumed China's seat at the United Nations, which the ROC originally occupied. International recognition of the ROC has gradually eroded as most countries switched recognition to the PRC. Only 22 UN member states and the Holy See currently maintain formal diplomatic relations with the ROC, though it has informal ties with most other states via its representative offices

As for communism in China... it was there before the war, it was just not yet recognized as the one true power of mainland China. It was certainly in China and it was most definitely present in the world.

This point is true but it's still not what's relevant about western fear. It doesn't matter what you call it. Communism/Socialism... it doesn't really matter. A little observation check for you. Go back and read my post where it says we cooperated with Nationalist mainly because they were on the needy side of the Chinese civil war. Don't you understand why I pointed that out? This proves that I was trying to make this point.

If the situation had been reversed and the nationalist were winning and going to be the main power of China and they had the communists on the run, we would have sided with communists. If the nationalists had been winning, they would likely have never sucked up to us.

It doesn't matter how old communism is... it's not specifically communism that the elite fears. It's a Foreign power that big PERIOD. It is a large Eastern power PERIOD.

Reading what they've sold you in b & w is one thing, understanding what it means is a little different.

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
There was also a territory arrangement that gave Taiwan which was a part of Japan to the Nationalists & gave us a place to base while dealing with the Japanese. i was told by someone although i can't find anything on it, that we hid titan missiles in Taiwan.

Once you brush up on history you might lose some of these positions you hold rooted in myth, not reality.

edit on 22-12-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

First, get this straight... While in the throes of war, final territory arrangement can wait until all the chips have fallen. What you are citing is the mere documentation of such arrangements that anyone can read for themselves. That doesn't exactly take a lot of wisdom to repeat.

So when did the allied forces occupy Taiwan? What operations were launched out of Taiwan? I will await your answers filled with wisdom.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
There was also a territory arrangement that gave Taiwan which was a part of Japan to the Nationalists & gave us a place to base while dealing with the Japanese. i was told by someone although i can't find anything on it, that we hid titan missiles in Taiwan.

Once you brush up on history you might lose some of these positions you hold rooted in myth, not reality.

edit on 22-12-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

First, get this straight... While in the throes of war, final territory arrangement can wait until all the chips have fallen. What you are citing is the mere documentation of such arrangements that anyone can read for themselves. That doesn't exactly take a lot of wisdom to repeat.

So when did the allied forces occupy Taiwan? What operations were launched out of Taiwan? I will await your answers filled with wisdom.

What are you, lazy or something? Is this the only way you can get people to talk to you, because I don't really find you that interesting... just so you won't get the wrong idea while having to spoonfeed answers to you.

First of all, the US had been all up in Chinese and Japanese politics since well before the war. Do not forget that we decided to place embargo on japan in 37.

Also, before we got involved in ww2... guess what we were already doing? Planning out all sorts of military related stuff with the leader of the Nationalists. Take the flying Tigers for example started by this guy...

The American Volunteer Group was largely the creation of Claire L. Chennault, a retired U.S. Army Air Corps officer who had worked in China since August 1937, first as military aviation advisor to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek in the early months of the Sino-Japanese War, then as director of a Chinese Air Force flight school centered in Kunming

as for offenses on the Islands themselves.... they are practically too numerous to even try to list. One of the main objectives in that part of the war was capturing Japanese Islands. Do you know how many Islands we are talking about? This is where some of the worst fighting took place. Are you crazy?

Are you completely unaware that Chinese Nationalists were helping us do this?

To be specific about Taiwan... even though my point was that the nationalists had helped with their campaign against the Japanese in general concerning ALL of those Islands that were then divied up post war that were at one time considered Japanese territory... but one example of a campaign involving Taiwan directly was our very successful air raid of Taiwan which lead to our victory in seizing Okinawa.

I'm not sure how far you are wanting me to go into this but it's not like this information is something you can't find on your own. how could possibly sit there and pretend that as far as those islands were concerned... it's like we just weren't there to you or something? Or that we had nothing to do with the Nationalists??

Crazy stuff you got there.

Nah... we weren't there... the Chinese weren't there... none of that happened.

Are you freaking dreaming or something?

I guess there were no POW in Japanese camps on any of those Islands either, aye? Is that what you are going to try to say next? man, i don't know what you are going on about but YES... we were involved with nationalists and had a presence in china with them PRE-WAR. There was A LOT of fighting done on those Islands.... dozens of Islands. DOZENS! We were Island hopping trying to take them from the Japanese and YES...Nationalists were helping us do this.

Are you really trying to tell me that this didn't happen.... because it most certainly DID.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


I love how you make claims and then can not back them up. Hint: In 1945 Japan still controlled Taiwan. So again, since the signing of Taiwan to the ROC was a simple document and Taiwan was used as a forward staging base against Japan by the US, when did the US occupy it. What operations were launched from it. I imagine you tried looking up the information and you couldn't find it, which is why you refused to answer.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

I love how you make claims and then can not back them up. Hint: In 1945 Japan still controlled Taiwan. So again, since the signing of Taiwan to the ROC was a simple document and Taiwan was used as a forward staging base against Japan by the US, when did the US occupy it. What operations were launched from it. I imagine you tried looking up the information and you couldn't find it, which is why you refused to answer.

No, actually... at this point. I have no idea what you are even arguing about.

Chinese Nationalist helped us fight the Japanese. As my point already states this served a dual purpose.They helped us seize control of many islands and YES... we were ACTUALLY ON those Islands. I wouldn't exactly call this an occupation though. You don't have to officially occupy a territory to be there and be involved in battle there. That's YOUR word, not mine. I never said that the US "occupied" Taiwan. I'm stating the obvious reason we gave Taiwan to the Nationalists instead of the recognized power in mainland China.... then turned around in the 70s and stopped recognizing it as anything more than a province of China.

Like I said, this gave them a place to set up their government and gave us footholds from which to continue attacking the Japanese. This is what Operation Downfall was all about and the only reason that they did not follow all the way through with their assaults on those Islands is because... we made a bomb... but YES, we were there, blowing up and seizing Islands with the help of Nationalists and that is what you are arguing with.... because nobody said that the US ever had an official occupation in Taiwan.

Stop trying to gloss over what's staring you right in the face by putting words like "occupied" in my mouth.

There must be some interesting news around here that you are trying to distract me from because this is dumb.
You're a crazy person.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


No, you said it was used as a base during WW2 against the Japanese. How can it be used as a base unless it's occupied by our forces? Now you are contradicting yourself. First it was a base used against Japan, now we never had any forces on it. Which is it?

The recognized party in 1945 when Taiwan was given was not the communist party, it was the ROC. You are wrong there as well. You have no clue about history, and attempt to insult those who do. Just quit while you are way behind.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

No, you said it was used as a base during WW2 against the Japanese. How can it be used as a base unless it's occupied by our forces? Now you are contradicting yourself. First it was a base used against Japan, now we never had any forces on it. Which is it?

The recognized party in 1945 when Taiwan was given was not the communist party, it was the ROC. You are wrong there as well. You have no clue about history, and attempt to insult those who do. Just quit while you are way behind.

You absolutely can not read. I have REPEATEDLY said that Taiwan was given to the NATIONALISTS. The Communist took the main land and the NATIONALISTS had to have a place to set up their government... we promised them Taiwan for their cooperation.

When I say "base" I am not talking about long term occupation. I am talking about a place from which to regroup, or allocate weapons or other equipment, distribute items or food or initiate ground attacks or hide.... or any other of the numerous things one can do from a "location"

If you are trying to say we did none of that.... you're crazy.

We had a presence in both Japan AND China before the war... and as the war began, yes.... you better believe we worked with people already engaged in those areas...in their own conflict ON THOSE ISLANDS after the war actually began.

You might as well be crazy. Sorry, but you are plumb dern crazy if you think all that was just some crazy coincidence.

Yeah, we went to the EXACT SAME PLACE that the Nationalist and Communists and Japanese had already been #ing fighting and got all involved up in Chinese politics just out of....oh.... happenstance.

No no no... We just wondered over there around the end of the war with a bomb and said "ploop" then ran away real fast.

You gotta be freaking kidding me.

Why did we even bother capturing half of those little nowhere islands if all we were concerned with was the 2 cities we bombed? For the hell of it?

Why did we even make deals with Nationalists? Why were we so close to them?

A) We were already working with them IN LIGHT of their own current supposedly unrelated conflicts and

B)... A regional ally in case we have to go kick the crap out of Japan since we were already pissing on them in 37 with the embargo...JUST LIKE I FREAKING SAID.

Ya Bra!

WE WERE THERE!

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
JUST LIKE I FREAKING SAID.

Ya Bra!

WE WERE THERE!

edit on 23-12-2012 by NotAnAspie because: (no reason given)

If all you have is a Ya Bra and repeating the same thing with no supporting evidence you should stop. Back up your claim Taiwan was given to the Nationals before the treaty and was used as a staging area against Japan in the war. If you give me paragraphs of your opinion with zero facts I will just ignore it.