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Originally posted by Kashai
Math is not flawed it shows that Infinifty is a part of nature, get over it....
Any thoughts?
Originally posted by Kashai
Many view the NDE as the precursor to an afterlife experience, claiming that the NDE cannot be adequately explained by physiological or psychological causes, and that the phenomenon demonstrates that human consciousness can function independently of brain activity.[81] Many NDE-accounts seem to include elements which, according to several theorists, can only be explained by an out-of-body consciousness. Michael Sabom reports a woman who underwent surgery for an aneurysm, and who reported an out-of-body experience that she claimed continued through a brief period of the absence of any EEG activity. [82][82] In another account, from a prospective Dutch NDE study,[17] a nurse removed the dentures of an unconscious heart attack victim, and was identified by him as the one who removed them, although patient was in a coma and undergoing cardio-pulmonary resuscitation at the time.
en.wikipedia.org...
Under the Search "Clinical research and Near Death Experience there are many more links. The problem is that 3 to 4 minutes after the heart stops, there is no real brain activity that can account for these experiences. Beyond the apparent religious experiences of these patients they are able to remember events that clinically, it was impossible for them to experience. Events like conversation between ambulance drivers about a football game or specifics about the conditions of other patients in the emergency room. This from a heart attack victim, who had been picked up 7 minutes after his or her heart attack at home.
Given human as actually finite that would be impossible but it is not.
Any thoughts?edit on 20-12-2012 by Kashai because: modified content
Originally posted by Kashai
Math is not flawed it shows that Infinifty is a part of nature, get over it....
Any thoughts?
Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by NorEaster
That does not negate the fact that conceptually and in relation to society beyond math the subject has been seriously considered and investigated.
The Brain During Cardiac Arrest
The heart is not merely a pump at a considerable fraction of a second is also charges and discharges electricity.
To be clear 10 seconds after the heart stops there is a cessation of brain electrical activity. This means that any process's that could occur are chemical in nature. So while the brain is such a situation is capable of absorbing oxygen for at most 4 minutes? It can no longer process information equivalent to a dream or hallucination.
In the case of experiences of life after death in a clinical setting. Anything that is done to a patients, even removing there dentures is documented, so is well the name of the person responsible for doing that.
Further reading
Lets be clear, this is a well documented issue and life after death is life. If you are at issue with that might I suggest you work 10 years as a Doctor ,in an emergency room, in a major hospital of any major metropolitan area. That would be enough time to insure you were exposed to these experiences.
Events that are confirmed as clinical findings
Any thoughts?edit on 22-12-2012 by Kashai because: added an modified content
Originally posted by NorEaster
I thought I made it clear that I believe in human life after death.
Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by spy66
Physicist work with infinities all the time it is "part and parcel" of the day to day life of being a Physicist. In that context perhaps you should have taken that possibility into consideration.
Theoretical applications of physical infinity
The practice of refusing infinite values for measurable quantities does not come from a priori or ideological motivations, but rather from more methodological and pragmatic motivations. One of the needs of any physical and scientific theory is to give usable formulas that correspond to or at least approximate reality. As an example if any object of infinite gravitational mass were to exist, any usage of the formula to calculate the gravitational force would lead to an infinite result, which would be of no benefit since the result would be always the same regardless of the position and the mass of the other object. The formula would be useful neither to compute the force between two objects of finite mass nor to compute their motions. If an infinite mass object were to exist, any object of finite mass would be attracted with infinite force (and hence acceleration) by the infinite mass object, which is not what we can observe in reality. Sometimes infinite result of a physical quantity may mean that the theory being used to compute the result may be approaching the point where it fails. This may help to indicate the limitations of a theory.
This point of view does not mean that infinity cannot be used in physics. For convenience's sake, calculations, equations, theories and approximations often use infinite series, unbounded functions, etc., and may involve infinite quantities. Physicists however require that the end result be physically meaningful. In quantum field theory infinities arise which need to be interpreted in such a way as to lead to a physically meaningful result, a process called renormalization.
en.wikipedia.org...
which is not what we can observe in reality. Sometimes infinite result of a physical quantity may mean that the theory being used to compute the result may be approaching the point where it fails. This may help to indicate the limitations of a theory.
Physicists however require that the end result be physically meaningful. In quantum field theory infinities arise which need to be interpreted in such a way as to lead to a physically meaningful result, a process called renormalization.
Renormalization is the following:
1.
at the first step the particle IS NOT considered as a point-like object. Physicists say that it has a size λ and perform all calculations for this "sizable" object. Of course, no infinities appear.
2.
at the second step physicists separate those terms that depend on λ (the "size" of the particle) from those terms that do not depend on λ .
3.
The terms that do not depend on the λ have some independent physical meaning and are relevant for describing some (but not all!) properties of the particles. They are accurately calculated.
4.
at the next step the size of the particle is made smaller and smaller, i.e. λ is approached to zero. Those terms that depend on λ are divergent, i.e. when you approach λ to zero they grow by infinity. The truth is that these terms are not used for anything, they are simply dropped. So, the goal of renormalization procedure is to separate finite terms from the equations and get rid of other divergent terms.
So, by using renormalization we can make the model "free" of divergences, but still we cannot use it for calculating some important properties of the particles. For instance, the mass and the electric charge of the particle cannot be calculated, because the model gives us no criteria to identify these quantities. Moreover, the particles that are known to have different masses (such as electron and muon) are indistinguishable in terms of this model.
And one more thing: renormalization procedure works for some theories (such as electrodynamics), but it does not work for others (such as quantum chromodynamics used to describe protons and neutrons). The theories where it doesn't work are called "non-renormalizable".
The basic idea can be summarized in one sentence: renormalization is the analysis of mathematical objects whose fractal dimensions at small distances are either different from what you expect because of nonlinear interactions, or incipiently different from what you expect, so that the naive scaling is modified by logarithms.
Originally posted by badconduct
reply to post by ImaFungi
It's not possible. Infinity is a man made concept to deal with complex mathematical problems. You'll never complete pi, but we still use it daily to the best of our ability.
Is there ever an infinite amount of anything in the universe? Probably not (probably), but infinity is a mathematical system used for calculated simple things, it's not really a measurement. There can't really be 0 of anything either.
edit on 25-12-2012 by badconduct because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by NorEaster
which is not what we can observe in reality. Sometimes infinite result of a physical quantity may mean that the theory being used to compute the result may be approaching the point where it fails. This may help to indicate the limitations of a theory.
This is why conservative physics cannot explain quantum mechanics. This means that when it comes to certain measurements a scientist is placed in the position where he needs to accept the fact he or she is addressing infinities.
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by NorEaster
which is not what we can observe in reality. Sometimes infinite result of a physical quantity may mean that the theory being used to compute the result may be approaching the point where it fails. This may help to indicate the limitations of a theory.
This is why conservative physics cannot explain quantum mechanics. This means that when it comes to certain measurements a scientist is placed in the position where he needs to accept the fact he or she is addressing infinities.
No, when it comes to certain measurements a scientist is placed in the position where he (or she) needs to accept the fact that a measurement cannot be made. In most cases, a measurement that cannot be made is an ancillary measurement, and is not germane to the validity of a central tenet of a specific theory. The true size of an expanding universe from instant to instant is an example of an immeasurable measurement that - while conceptually mentionable within many theories - is not germane to the validity of any of the theories that it appears within. In such cases, the term "infinite" serves to indicate that this specific measurement is acknowledged to exist, but it also acknowledged to be beyond anyone's capacity to establish. This is what they mean when they refer to "infinity" as a placeholder term.