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Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by DarthMuerte
Well, there is no free lunch. Whenever government mandates free coverage or expanded coverage or insuring those with various preconceived conditions, then the cost premiums for everyone goes up. That's just the nature of the beast and one that many people do not understand. If government tomorrow was to mandate that car insurance also cover oil changes and the cost of gasoline, that insurance premium would skyrocket.
Of course, the intent is to make private insurance so expensive and untenable, that government will step in to take over and "fix" the problem it helped cause.
Originally posted by DarthMuerte
Is it fear mongering when the increases are actually already occurring? Google it for yourself. People all over the country are complaining about huge spikes in insurance costs leading to many small companies and individuals losing what coverage they used to have. As the above poster mentioned, this was planned. The goal is single payer government controlled healthcare. Just look at the UK to see how that works out. Rationed health care will be the result in the end. AKA "death panels".
Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by DarthMuerte
Are you really so naive that you can't recongize when insurance companies are fear mongering?
With the onset of healthcare, this behavior is more than predictable for these companies.
And you instantly took the bait, hook, line, and sinker.
Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by DarthMuerte
My insurance is under Tricare prime, (government sponsored health care) as my husband is a retired Marine, our premium already double, and by 2014 will triple
Originally posted by SilentKillah
Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by DarthMuerte
Well, there is no free lunch. Whenever government mandates free coverage or expanded coverage or insuring those with various preconceived conditions, then the cost premiums for everyone goes up. That's just the nature of the beast and one that many people do not understand. If government tomorrow was to mandate that car insurance also cover oil changes and the cost of gasoline, that insurance premium would skyrocket.
Of course, the intent is to make private insurance so expensive and untenable, that government will step in to take over and "fix" the problem it helped cause.
You think a fair comparison is uninsured and helpless people to additional coverages of vehicle maintenance? Not air at all.
How much does free Tricare cost you?.. nothing. The government?.. less than what they pay for my Blue Cross Blue Shield (DoD Civilian). And I still pay out of pocket. Don't see Tricare going out of business. If it can work for Tricare, then it can work for all. Problem is... greed.
Originally posted by undo
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by undo
just out of curiosity i would like to ask a couple questions
i have 3 kids, all of them are adults. 2 can't find jobs. the other is self-employed.
will they all have to pay for health insurance out of their own pockets, even if unemployed or self-employed?
No, but they will have to pay a fine that is less than the premium. What they will do is pay the fine and then have the taxpayer pick up their insurance bills for them.
.
how does a person without a job pay a fine? are they crazy?
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by undo
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by undo
just out of curiosity i would like to ask a couple questions
i have 3 kids, all of them are adults. 2 can't find jobs. the other is self-employed.
will they all have to pay for health insurance out of their own pockets, even if unemployed or self-employed?
No, but they will have to pay a fine that is less than the premium. What they will do is pay the fine and then have the taxpayer pick up their insurance bills for them.
.
how does a person without a job pay a fine? are they crazy?
Well yes, they are crazy. Just looking at the bill is evidence of that.
Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by DarthMuerte
Are you really so naive that you can't recongize when insurance companies are fear mongering?
With the onset of healthcare, this behavior is more than predictable for these companies.
And you instantly took the bait, hook, line, and sinker.
Originally posted by longlostbrother
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by undo
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by undo
just out of curiosity i would like to ask a couple questions
i have 3 kids, all of them are adults. 2 can't find jobs. the other is self-employed.
will they all have to pay for health insurance out of their own pockets, even if unemployed or self-employed?
No, but they will have to pay a fine that is less than the premium. What they will do is pay the fine and then have the taxpayer pick up their insurance bills for them.
.
how does a person without a job pay a fine? are they crazy?
Well yes, they are crazy. Just looking at the bill is evidence of that.
If you'd ACTUALLY read the bill you could answer the question...
Sixteen Democratic senators who voted for the Affordable Care Act are asking that one of its fundraising mechanisms, a 2.3 percent tax on medical devices scheduled to take effect January 1, be delayed. Echoing arguments made by Republicans against Obamacare, the Democratic senators say the levy will cost jobs — in a statement Monday, Sen. Al Franken called it a “job-killing tax” — and also impair American competitiveness in the medical device field.
The senators, who made the request in a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, are Franken, Richard Durbin, Charles Schumer, Patty Murray, John Kerry, Kirsten Gillibrand, Amy Klobuchar, Joseph Lieberman, Ben Nelson, Robert Casey, Debbie Stabenow, Barbara Mikulski, Kay Hagan, Herb Kohl, Jeanne Shaheen, and Richard Blumenthal. All voted for Obamacare.
Two other Democrats, senators-elect Joe Donnelly and Elizabeth Warren, also signed the letter. Donnelly voted for Obamacare as a member of the House. Warren was not in Congress at the time.
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Catestrophic health insurance for things like a broken leg or a heart attack or cancer is not very expensive.
Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by macman
And when costs do what Obama claimed, what will you say?
Will you admit your paranoid fantasies were false?
Nope. You'll just pretend you never claimed this crap.
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by longlostbrother
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by undo
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by undo
just out of curiosity i would like to ask a couple questions
i have 3 kids, all of them are adults. 2 can't find jobs. the other is self-employed.
will they all have to pay for health insurance out of their own pockets, even if unemployed or self-employed?
No, but they will have to pay a fine that is less than the premium. What they will do is pay the fine and then have the taxpayer pick up their insurance bills for them.
.
how does a person without a job pay a fine? are they crazy?
Well yes, they are crazy. Just looking at the bill is evidence of that.
If you'd ACTUALLY read the bill you could answer the question...
What do you mean? Costs are going up, taxes are going up, regulations are going up...it's all in there. Democratic senators who voted for it are already scrambling to exempt their constituents from it because they are seeing the first tax increases coming and recognize it will kill jobs in their states.
Sixteen Democratic senators who voted for the Affordable Care Act are asking that one of its fundraising mechanisms, a 2.3 percent tax on medical devices scheduled to take effect January 1, be delayed. Echoing arguments made by Republicans against Obamacare, the Democratic senators say the levy will cost jobs — in a statement Monday, Sen. Al Franken called it a “job-killing tax” — and also impair American competitiveness in the medical device field.
The senators, who made the request in a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, are Franken, Richard Durbin, Charles Schumer, Patty Murray, John Kerry, Kirsten Gillibrand, Amy Klobuchar, Joseph Lieberman, Ben Nelson, Robert Casey, Debbie Stabenow, Barbara Mikulski, Kay Hagan, Herb Kohl, Jeanne Shaheen, and Richard Blumenthal. All voted for Obamacare.
Two other Democrats, senators-elect Joe Donnelly and Elizabeth Warren, also signed the letter. Donnelly voted for Obamacare as a member of the House. Warren was not in Congress at the time.
Don't you find it the height of illogic? To make healthcare "cheaper" by taxing healthcare equipment more?
Originally posted by longlostbrother
And when costs do what Obama claimed, what will you say?
Will you admit your paranoid fantasies were false?
Nope. You'll just pretend you never claimed this crap.
Originally posted by kozmo
Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by macman
And when costs do what Obama claimed, what will you say?
Will you admit your paranoid fantasies were false?
Nope. You'll just pretend you never claimed this crap.
Why pose a hypothetical that will never happen - can't happen - because it flies in the face of every economic principle!?
Please explain, in detail, how adding 30 million non-paying or marginally paying customers lowers costs! Please explain how increasing coverage and costs for the insurance company will cause rates to drop.
His paranoia is real and based on economic FACTS - you, on the other hand, are living in a fantasy. I will anxiously await your pearls of wisdom on how this will work.
Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by jtap66
I'm NOT fighting for the insurance companies to maintain insane profits. I AM fighting against having to pay for someone else's free ride and allowing the government to tell me what I have to buy with MY money!
There are other ways to address the insurance companies and costs - legislating ME to pay for it is pure crap!
Originally posted by longlostbrother
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Catestrophic health insurance for things like a broken leg or a heart attack or cancer is not very expensive.
If you ever wanted solid proof that those on the right are divorced from reality, read this ^^^.
www.forbes.com...
Cancer is the ninth most expensive thing to treat.
Seventh is stroke, another catastrophic illness.
Fifth is heart attack.
In fact of the top ten most expensive illnesses, catastrophic ones account for at least half the list:
10. HIV $25,000
9. Cancer $49,000
8. Transplant $51,00
7. Stroke $61,000
6 Hemophilia $62,000
5. Heart Attack including Cardiac Revascularization (Angioplasty with or without Stent) $72,000
4. Coronary Artery Disease $75,000
3. Neonate (premature baby) with extreme problems $101,000
2. End-Stage Renal Disease $173,000
1. Respiratory Failure on Ventilator $314,000
But yeah sure, just go on making up crap NavyDoc, you're right to assume most people on the right will just believe what you're spouting without bothering to check if it's true.
Catastrophic health insurance plans are designed to provide an emergency safety net to protect you against unexpected medical costs.
Catastrophic plans are individual and family health insurance plans that emphasize coverage for hospitalization or serious illness. The word "catastrophic" is not always used in the name of the plan - they may also be referred to as hospital-only or short-term plans. Catastrophic plans may not provide coverage for other services such as prescription drugs, regular doctor's visits, immunizations or checkups.
Monthly premiums for catastrophic plans may be lower than those of other health insurance plans but annual deductibles are usually higher.