Contrails: Evidence that they are NOT Chemtrails (With images)

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posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Uncinus
 





Just looking at one at random, how exactly is "Scientists Find That Saturn's Rotation Period is a Puzzle" evidence that chemtrails are real?


Here is a better one...


Giant Ribbon Discovered at the Edge of the Solar System


science.nasa.gov...



Psst, his links were a joke.

Just like most chemtrail theories.




posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
Considering that one of the top mantras of chemtrail believers is that:

"contrails fade away quickly; persistent trails MUST be chemtrails",...


It's always been a bit puzzling why they believe this, seeing as it's contrary to all known science and history. But I realized today that some people think that since a contrail is a condensation trail, and your breath is condensation, and your breath is only visible for a few seconds, then contrails should only be visible for a few seconds.

And it occurred to me that perhaps they simply never realized that contrails are not condensation.

They are FROZEN condensation. A different thing entirely.


contrailscience.com...



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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People often let opportunity pass them by because it is wearing overalls and smells of work
- Thomas Jefferson




"Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever."
-Robert A. Heinlein




If necessity is the mother of invention, laziness is the father.
pre-chemtrail denialist quote
edit on 13-12-2012 by DerepentLEstranger because: added comment



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
evidence they are chemtrails

follow the rabbit



upload.wikimedia.org...


Can you explain to me how this proves chemtrails, either on its own or in conjunction with anything else??





posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 02:16 AM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
evidence they are chemtrails

follow the rabbit



upload.wikimedia.org...


Can you explain to me how this proves chemtrails, either on its own or in conjunction with anything else??




I think this guy was thinking that buy posting a ridiculous amount of links, nobody would bother checking them. How wrong he was! I think people in the industry would probably call that an evidence FAIL.

It appears that this, like every other anti-chemtrail thread, is turning into a generic, "you're wrong", "they do exist", "look i've done some internet research on questionable websites" threads. How about responding to the OP? Clearly, normal contrails do persist and spread in-line with main stream basic science which many seem to lack an understanding of in abundance.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 03:22 AM
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+++ to the OP

To the fans of chemtrails...

I was there at the coining of the term 'chemtrails', some lame guest on coast to coast am with art bell made up the term, art liked the sound of it and ran with it, before you know it peeps became 'experts' in 'chemtrails', it's easy to be an expert when no one is an expert, that way no one can say you aren't, but there are aviation experts and they all seem to say that 99% of 'chemtrails' are actually 'contrails', period.

Is it a coincidence that chemtrail fans are also crop circle fans? these same people say crop circles are created by something other than mankind (even though there has been zero evidence to support this insane claim), these same people are claiming that objects in the sky that people aren't able to immediate identify also must have been created by something other than mankind (even though there has been zero evidence to support this insane claim).

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence science will ever care about, an alien made a crop circle? an alien craft flew over your house? men in black are spraying chemicals over your house to make you sick or change your dna on and on and on?

Show us some concrete scientific evidence.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 03:34 AM
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reply to post by Razimus
 


Couldn't have said it better. I think we will be waiting for a long time.

It also amazes me how these people think they are better than us non-believers because they 'know something' that we don't and honestly believe that we (the sheeple) are in denial because we are right where 'they' want us to be. In my opinion, the most gullible and deluded people are the ones that believe in this kind of thing because they have been sucked in by a minority who claim to be experts on something which can't even be proven to exist.
edit on 14-12-2012 by fiftyfifty because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 04:30 AM
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reply to post by fiftyfifty
 


It has been my experience that a fairly lengthy discourse with most chemtrail believers tends to be brought to an abrupt end by asking a simple direct question such as, for example, "how are you telling the difference between chemtrail and contrail?" or similar. I could trawl back over my posts over the years and compile a list of unanswered direct quest questions (with a few exceptions who, despite me disagreeing with them have my respect for being prepared to at least discuss things). Asking simple questions has even drawn direct verbal abuse from some of the more retarded adherents who I'm sure the t&c's prevent me from naming directly.

It seems that chemtrail theory only stands up if you are prepared to blindly accept claims or fail to read and understand links. That's not for me.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 10:54 AM
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Stupid is as stupid does.
- Forrest Gump's Mom



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by Razimus

Is it a coincidence that chemtrail fans are also crop circle fans? these same people say crop circles are created by something other than mankind (even though there has been zero evidence to support this insane claim), these same people are claiming that objects in the sky that people aren't able to immediate identify also must have been created by something other than mankind (even though there has been zero evidence to support this insane claim).


In these things there's always this rush to the incredible explanation over the mundane explanation. They take the most complex explanation over the simplest. It reminds me some something I read recently:



The eighteenth-century radical and skeptic Tom Paine applied exactly this thinking to religious doctrine in his book The Age of Reason. “If we are to suppose,” wrote Paine, “a miracle to be something so entirely out of the course of what is called nature, that she must go out of that course to accomplish it, and we see an account given of such miracle by the person who said he saw it, it raises a question in the mind very easily decided, which is, is it more probable that nature should go out of her course, or that a man should tell a lie?

Aaronovitch, David (2010-01-19). Voodoo Histories: The Role of the Conspiracy Theory in Shaping Modern History (pp. 6-7). Penguin Group. Kindle Edition.



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by waynos
 





Asking simple questions has even drawn direct verbal abuse from some of the more retarded adherents who I'm sure the t&c's prevent me from naming directly.


let's look back thru this thread and list some descriptive terms used to describe 'chemtrailers' ...

retarded adherents [from above re-quoted]
gullible and deluded people
lame
insane
Ignorance
'delusion'
moron [from a signature of a member]

it would seem that the 'abuse' dished out by your side is somewhat greater than what you are recieving in turn.
also, i understand your desire to operate within the t&c here.
that being said , it would seem a better idea to place postings in a thread where your actual intrests lie, possibly the aviation area.
to post a picture of a contrail, claiming it to be evidence that a chemtrail program has not been undertaken, is not scientific evidence at all.
a proper review by a mod should move all these contrail threads to the hoax area, as would be done in any other area of ATS.
but, as they [mods] seem to be busy elsewhere, let the 'debate' continue.

you should realize that many of the 'believers' that post here only do so because they like to 'feed the trolls'



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Qubert
 





BTW... Does anyone know if this has been done? Any "scientific" papers on this? Has anyone run it through the Ol spectrophotometer and done a mass balance analysis.


Here is a good place to start...

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by tinhattribunal
 





retarded adherents [from above re-quoted]
gullible and deluded people
lame
insane
Ignorance
'delusion'
moron [from a signature of a member]


I think you may want to go back and re-read the context that these words were used in as they aren't directed at any single chemtrail believer but towards the way they try to present evidence.

And believe me this is nothing compared to what chemtrail believers call those who debunk them...

As for the moron in the signature what doeis it have to do with chemtrails or chemtrail believers?



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by fiftyfifty
 


OK, first of all, not ALL jet trails are chemtrails. Nobody suggests that. So proving that one instance on one day was what you saw as contrails and not chemtrails, does nothing to disprove the theories.

Enough is enough. There is nothing left to argue about. There are government documents, patents, and conferences covering the idea of geoengineering using aerosols as the vehicle. THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Not that my own eyes dont serve as a form of proof, but this is perhaps why it is going on. Also, recommend watching 'Why in the World Are They Spraying?'

I can't remember the last sunny day in PA where chemtrails or contrails or whatever did not create a hazy cloud fog. There's also a recent video of a fedex pilot nearly being hit by 2 undeclared jets at 35,000 feet which were clearly spraying something.

OK, If you want to debunk any or all of this, I'd like to hear it. Of course, it requires an open mind and deductive reasoning to understand why it may be going on and why they may not want to tell us. That I cannot provide you with.

Patent for chemtrails

Solar Radiation Management Govt Initiative

Environmental Defense Force on Particulate Spraying into Atmosphere

FedEx Video

Univ. of Montana: Ethics of Geoengineering



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Spiral0ut
 


As I've posted repeatedly, the FedEx video wasn't even close to a near miss. You really think that two experienced pilots would have a near miss, and then not say anything about it to ATC, and calmly request a lower altitude? They would have at the least told ATC that they had just had a near miss, and you would have heard swearing on the CVR. But the video claims that they were 2000 feet apart, which is twice the FAA minimums, which means it wasn't even close to a near miss.

And none of the planes in that video appear to be tankers of any sort. They all look to be normal passenger aircraft.

I've been in Penn lately, and have seen lots of unusual contrails, but they were just that, normal contrails. In fact the other day when I came through there I saw a ton of contrails, but it was when this cold front was moving through, so they acted just like normal persistent contrails.
edit on 12/15/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Spiral0ut
 


As I've posted repeatedly, the FedEx video wasn't even close to a near miss. You really think that two experienced pilots would have a near miss, and then not say anything about it to ATC, and calmly request a lower altitude? They would have at the least told ATC that they had just had a near miss, and you would have heard swearing on the CVR. But the video claims that they were 2000 feet apart, which is twice the FAA minimums, which means it wasn't even close to a near miss.


What?
Are you for real? They clearly were making contact with ATC and ATC was not notified of the 2 AF jets at that altitude. Come on now. And you (unsuccessfully) went after ONE aspect of my post. Nothing to say about the patents and the conferences?



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by Spiral0ut
 





Patent for chemtrails

Solar Radiation Management Govt Initiative

Environmental Defense Force on Particulate Spraying into Atmosphere

FedEx Video

Univ. of Montana: Ethics of Geoengineering


Okay the first one has nothing to do with chemtrails..Although it is always associated with them..

The next one well...


Project Overview

The Solar Radiation Management Governance Initiative (SRMGI) aims to ensure responsible international research into geoengineering.

By facilitating a transparent process, coordinated independently of vested interests but open to input from a wide range of stakeholders, SRMGI seeks to establish a set of widely accepted principles for solar radiation management research.

The initiative is comprised of two phases. See project timeline


you can read more about these timelines...

www.srmgi.org...

As for the third....


"Once we understand the risks of deploying these technologies," Hamburg added, "there's a good chance we'll never want to use them."


solutions.edf.org...

That's the first three shall I continue?

edit on 15-12-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-12-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Spiral0ut
 


There are people that have a better understanding of the patents and papers than I do, so I leave those to them. I have a better grasp of the aviation side of it so I stick to that.

As for the FedEx video, I just watched it again, and he NEVER said anything about Air Force tankers, or a near miss, or anything of the sort. The first plane goes overhead, and he calls ATC and requests a routine altitude change. It happens all the time.

There is so much more just wrong with that video it isn't even funny. There is no such thing as altitudes set aside for commercial planes, like he claims there is. All altitude is used for whoever is in the area, it's up to ATC to asign an altitude, and they don't care if it's military or civilian, they're going to assign then to an altitude regardless. Altitude blocks only come into play when the military is on a mission such as refueling.

How do you know ATC didn't know they were there? The video conveniently stats right before the first plane pisses over. How do you know ATC didn't give a traffic advisory before the video started?
edit on 12/15/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Spiral0ut
reply to post by fiftyfifty
 



Patent for chemtrails


In what way is this a patent for Chemtrails??



Solar Radiation Management Govt Initiative


No - Solar Radiation GOVERNANCE Initiative. Right there on hte first line it says it is being done by NGO's - that's "Non Government Organisations"


It is seeking to establish CONTROLS over any prospective SRM - that is to STOP people doing it unless ther are some rules or oversight of some sort.


Environmental Defense Force on Particulate Spraying into Atmosphere


Pretty much the same as the above - wants there o be discussion befoe it ever happens, rules that have to be obeyed if it is ever going to happen, and:


"Once we understand the risks of deploying these technologies," Hamburg added, "there's a good chance we'll never want to use them."



FedEx Video


Already debunked to death - no tankers are identified in the video, there is no indication of a hear miss at all, and no aircraft are unidentified.


Univ. of Montana: Ethics of Geoengineering


Another place looking to study whether we should do SRM at all:


A team of University of Montana researchers has been awarded a two-year National Science Foundation grant to study the ethics of solar radiation management (SRM), the intentional engineering of the earth's climate to offset climate change.


So that's 3 places wanting to discuss the ethics & governance before it happens, a YT video that is falsely represented as something it is not, and a patent that might be useful if it ever happens.

What among hat do you consider evidence of SRM happening?? ;puz:
edit on 15-12-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by tinhattribunal
 


So you quote me (and others) out of context and fail to quote where I mention where I have respect for certain members who believe.

That's just dishonest.

And then you referred to trolls






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