Originally posted by longlostbrother

Originally posted by dorkfish87
So print more money to purchase these bonds from the government is what they're doing. Devalue the dollar so people that are actually feeling the economic crises more acutely can now buy less with what little money they have... Seems like a bad idea to me, or their intentions are contrary to what they say.

Yes I'm aware most money is not paper money, but digital. Same rules apply: the more American money they print the less it's worth

No.

A move like this has almost no real impact on average Americans. That's just hyperbolic.

From my earlier link:

Quantitative easing may then be used by the monetary authorities to further stimulate the economy by purchasing assets of longer maturity than only short-term government bonds, and thereby lowering longer-term interest rates further out on the yield curve.

Look, it is all just stupid. It is a fiat currency and the "system" wrapped around it is simply because we have created these "assets" out of thin air to invest in, in order to make another number (interest rates) move because of our belief that doing this or that should have one or the other affect.

In the end money is fake, bonds are fake, stocks are fake, interest is fake and the whole financial system is fake.

So sure, print as much money as you want. It isn't the printing that is breaking the "system", it is the fact that the "system" is fake that is the problem. Basically a big ponzi scheme.

Enjoy world.

These might be some dumb questions, but I'll ask anyways...

Where is all the money (the 16t debt)? If it's spent, why does it not circulate? Spend it here, it goes there, then goes there.. Shouldn't the money just stay "in the system", so to speak?


Is this money system built to do this? It would seem to me at this point, no matter what happens, this will fail. The economy can't improve, more money only makes it worse.

What is the real fix?

Originally posted by jough626
Where is all the money (the 16t debt)? If it's spent, why does it not circulate? Spend it here, it goes there, then goes there.. Shouldn't the money just stay "in the system", so to speak?

The debt is in the form of bonds (promises to pay) that are held by different individuals or institutions. Debt can pile up to be several times the actual money in circulation.

While part of the bonds are held by foreign institutions, most of the debt is held by US domestic instituions like banks, IRAs etc.

Is this money system built to do this?

Not really. It can happen with a money system where the units of currency are exclusively precious metals. It comes into existence because someone with actual money (paper, electronic or metals) decides to trust the promise of someone with no money right now, but with a preceived ability to service/repay the debt and wanting to spend what he doesn't immediately have.

It would seem to me at this point, no matter what happens, this will fail. The economy can't improve, more money only makes it worse.

I am with you on that.

What is the real fix?

None. There is no permanent fix to this. It will keep going in cycles. However, responsibility on the part of the borrower and prudence on the part of the lenders can prevent the problem from building up. However there are always some greedy lenders and irresponsible borrowers, so it always ends up into a huge unsustainable trap until everything crashes and things start over.

Printing money is pretty much a tax. It devalues the purchasing power of the dollar. They can't pass laws to raise taxes so they will just print the money to pay for their black hole programs and devalue your money which is pretty much a tax without people knowing it.

Lenders have nothing to do with this. The feds are he main culprits. They control the economy in what they do, so if they want to destroy it like 2008, they can easily do the same and consolidate smaller companies once more.

Greenspan and Bernanke, two zionists, have controlled the federal reserve for 25 years. The federal reserve controls the economy, therefore the country is controlled by zionists. Fact.

Originally posted by MajorKarma
Okay, I tried to show the way to seeing the big picture but without exception all who have responded to this thread have shown themselves neck deep a product of this false paradigm.

Dollars will not matter, ownership is all that matters; ownership of land and resources that have been secured behind a mountain of laws and bureaucracy, backed by the military. The Elites have been expanding and imploding, expanding and imploding, and each time gathering the ownership and control by incorporating others into their structure but no ownership.

But relax, they are all mortal; Solomon said it best, All is vanity; what was high, will be brought low...as for you and I, take pleasure in the fruits of your labor, dance while you can.

Exactly. Lets think pyramid structure. How does a ponzi scheme work?

A bunch of people get together and decide to start an illegal investment scheme that pays high interest to supposedly all that invest. Few know the details but it sounds enticing enough to put lets say $100. $10,000 eventually gets collected and all of it goes to pay interest on the people who "invested" first. The pyramid gets smaller and smaller the higher you go, till you reach the top where a handful of people have recouped their investment plus a ton of interest from the newer guys.

Those that "invested" last not only get zero interest collected, but they also lose their original "capital investment". Wall street works the same way but in a legal manner. The smart buy when the stock is rock bottom(usually during a manufactured recession) and sell just before the bad news come out and the stock starts to dip. That is how to maximise your investment. The stupid/inexperienced do the opposite or at best catch the stock during its half-way climb.

I know enough about capitalism to hate it. It is a predatory system were the few prey on the gullible and naive!

Wow, 85 billion! Talk about jacking up the height of the cliff we are going to fall off.

If I print off money that doesn't exist, it is called fraud and I go to jail. If the government prints off money that doesn't exist, it is called quantitative easing and it is legal. What a load of bs... when the world finally says we won't accept the US monopoly money, the US citizens will experience a depression much worse the the Great Depression, and now one will import goods into a country that has no real currency. For me, that is a scary thought and I fear for the American people if such an event would pass.

Originally posted by smkngnz
If I print off money that doesn't exist, it is called fraud and I go to jail. If the government prints off money that doesn't exist, it is called quantitative easing and it is legal. What a load of bs... when the world finally says we won't accept the US monopoly money, the US citizens will experience a depression much worse the the Great Depression, and now one will import goods into a country that has no real currency. For me, that is a scary thought and I fear for the American people if such an event would pass.

If that's true, then basically all international trade will cease. There are very few nations on Earth who are not using fiat currency. Those who are using hard commodity for transactions are such small economies as to not matter in the grand scheme of things.

Further, if the US Dollar collapses, all other currencies of the world will follow suit. It's far more likely that the USD would be one of the last 2-3 currencies standing anyhow, but nevertheless. Also, should all currencies collapse, while there would be chaos for a time, all currencies really are is a measure of value. New currency would simply be issued. People would get paid for their work, for selling things, etc and would pay for others' labor, and for buying things. Sure, one day we may call them dollars, and another "Republic Credits", and in the distant future, even "beepbeepbeep's." it makes no difference.

Our debt to GDP ratio was far higher during WW2 than it is today. Yes, we have fiat currency, but so does all of Europe, every major nation of Asia, Africa, South America, Russia, etc. Why people panic about this, I don't know. And yes, it's true that, as they say, every fiat currency has failed, as long as you ignore the vast majority of fiat currencies (which have not failed.)

Mark my words, just as assuredly as gold never hit the $5,000 mark threatened since Bush"s stimulus rolled into Obama's stimulus, it will be back under $1,200/oz before 2016. People have been making bad investments based on their irrational fears for four years now, and all the while, the people who understand the realities are making fistfuls of dollars.

Trouble is that this isn't a move in isolation to the rest of the
world. bond buying programs are going on with the eropean central bank
it will be going on with the japanese central bank depending on the outcome
of the election and the US fedral resurve. all of them are printing money and buying bonds
in a long term cycle in an attemp to deflate their own currency in relation to others
to level the playing field. finally realising when you outsource your labour to cheaper
oversease competitors that you have no engine for growth in your own country.
so they accumulate massed of debt in the meantime in an attempt to retain jobs or grow
the ecconomy. the chinese and indians will just end up pegging their currency to the US
as it goes thought a massive inflation cycle. in the end the super-powers of the world will
have to anex smaller countries to expand their own physical capacity for growth.