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US dollar falls after Federal Reserve's announcement
page: 2share:
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
Schiff is anti-Fed as a rule. A less anti-Fed viewpoint might actually present a more balanced view of this move.
Schiff is anti-Fed as a rule. A less anti-Fed viewpoint might actually present a more balanced view of this move.
Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
Schiff is anti-Fed as a rule. A less anti-Fed viewpoint might actually present a more balanced view of this move.
Everything he said was completely factual as far as I could tell. Tell me where he is wrong... because I can't see it. And who wouldn't be anti-fed with the crap they do... honestly. Just watch the video before posting your comeback, you obviously couldn't have watched a 20 min video that quickly. I want your next post to provide facts, not accusations and personal opinions.
But the fact that you have already said in this thread that quantitative easing doesn't cause inflation and doesn't affect the purchasing power of the dollar, or reduce the value of savings, already makes it perfectly clear you understand nothing.
edit on 13/12/2012 by ChaoticOrder because:
(no reason given)
''$85bn a month of asset purchasing''
What are the assets?
Where are they?
When do we sell them and get the money back?
How much of this money will flow into US Citizens bank accounts?
2yrs and around 2 TRILLION dollars in 'asset purchasing' is going to get us... where?
the Dollar may be worthless, but wheelbarrows are going to start going up in price!
What are the assets?
Where are they?
When do we sell them and get the money back?
How much of this money will flow into US Citizens bank accounts?
2yrs and around 2 TRILLION dollars in 'asset purchasing' is going to get us... where?
the Dollar may be worthless, but wheelbarrows are going to start going up in price!
reply to post by Agit8dChop
The assets are Government bonds (Government debt). This is effectively debt monetization. They print money out of thin air and buy the bonds. They claim it's not debt monetization because they intend to sell all the bonds they buy in this process at some point in the future... but that's simply bogus. Like the guy in the video I posted on the last page says: "Sell to who? How is it even possible? And it doesn't matter what the Fed claims they are going to do at some point in the distant far off future, what matters is what they are doing in the here and now. They are printing money and buying bonds.". The money will eventually flow into citizen bank accounts. After it has been spent at full value by the Government and banks, and then trickles down into the economy and causes vast inflation... oh you'll get it at some point, when it's worth just as much as what you had in there before.
What are the assets?
Where are they?
When do we sell them and get the money back?
How much of this money will flow into US Citizens bank accounts?
The assets are Government bonds (Government debt). This is effectively debt monetization. They print money out of thin air and buy the bonds. They claim it's not debt monetization because they intend to sell all the bonds they buy in this process at some point in the future... but that's simply bogus. Like the guy in the video I posted on the last page says: "Sell to who? How is it even possible? And it doesn't matter what the Fed claims they are going to do at some point in the distant far off future, what matters is what they are doing in the here and now. They are printing money and buying bonds.". The money will eventually flow into citizen bank accounts. After it has been spent at full value by the Government and banks, and then trickles down into the economy and causes vast inflation... oh you'll get it at some point, when it's worth just as much as what you had in there before.
Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
Schiff is anti-Fed as a rule. A less anti-Fed viewpoint might actually present a more balanced view of this move.
Everything he said was completely factual as far as I could tell. Tell me where he is wrong... because I can't see it. And who wouldn't be anti-fed with the crap they do... honestly. Just watch the video before posting your comeback, you obviously couldn't have watched a 20 min video that quickly. I want your next post to provide facts, not accusations and personal opinions.
But the fact that you have already said in this thread that quantitative easing doesn't cause inflation and doesn't affect the purchasing power of the dollar, or reduce the value of savings, already makes it perfectly clear you understand nothing.edit on 13/12/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)
He states the facts, but reaches conclusions about what the facts mean - commentary.
Separate the two and then find a less anti-Fed commentary so you can reach your own conclusions, not simply parrot his anti-Fed positions.
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
The Fed chairman is merely preparing to buy shortterm bonds from the Federal Government, should there be no takers for them. The policy will have no effect if the Federal Government decides not to issue shortterm bonds or the market buys them up.
If the Fed did not make these changes, then the only recourse for the Federal Government to make up for the budgetary deficit, when there are no takers for its bonds, would be to issue a parallel currency to the one issued by the Fed. Then the Fed would be demonised by the supporters of the government.
It is not as if the Fed has any options.
The Fed chairman is merely preparing to buy shortterm bonds from the Federal Government, should there be no takers for them. The policy will have no effect if the Federal Government decides not to issue shortterm bonds or the market buys them up.
If the Fed did not make these changes, then the only recourse for the Federal Government to make up for the budgetary deficit, when there are no takers for its bonds, would be to issue a parallel currency to the one issued by the Fed. Then the Fed would be demonised by the supporters of the government.
It is not as if the Fed has any options.
Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
The Fed chairman is merely preparing to buy shortterm bonds from the Federal Government, should there be no takers for them. The policy will have no effect if the Federal Government decides not to issue shortterm bonds or the market buys them up.
If the Fed did not make these changes, then the only recourse for the Federal Government to make up for the budgetary deficit, when there are no takers for its bonds, would be to issue a parallel currency to the one issued by the Fed. Then the Fed would be demonised by the supporters of the government.
It is not as if the Fed has any options.
yes sooner or later people are going to find out that there is no pea under any of their walnut shells. this is best remembered as the old bait and switch parlor trick.
One of the questions was, how could the Federal Reserve just print another 40 bn per month. Quite simply, they are not Federal nor attached to the
govt in any way, but are a private bank and a central player in the IMF. They, the Federal Reserve Bank, can do what they want and you have no say in
the matter neither does the govt.
Another member made the statement that the banks were run by incompetent and irresponsible people. Unfortunately this is as far from the truth as it gets. Firstly, they are highly competent in what they do and are doing, it's just not in the publics best interest. Secondly, they are very responsible but just not to you or the govt. Look at Goldman Sachs, everyone cried incompetent and irresponsible yet they accomplished their goal and are the #1 dog.
What you are witnessing is the beginnings of the greatest wealth transfer known to man in modern times. Your about to get fleeced out of every last dollar you have and when the shears come out, it's too late. Warren Buffet already warned you, "when the tide goes out, we'll see who's swimming naked". This is a high stakes game and when the cards hit the table, it's not just the US that falls, they will clean the table of all fiat currencies and will have their replacement ready. All Ben did was up the stakes, you in?
Another member made the statement that the banks were run by incompetent and irresponsible people. Unfortunately this is as far from the truth as it gets. Firstly, they are highly competent in what they do and are doing, it's just not in the publics best interest. Secondly, they are very responsible but just not to you or the govt. Look at Goldman Sachs, everyone cried incompetent and irresponsible yet they accomplished their goal and are the #1 dog.
What you are witnessing is the beginnings of the greatest wealth transfer known to man in modern times. Your about to get fleeced out of every last dollar you have and when the shears come out, it's too late. Warren Buffet already warned you, "when the tide goes out, we'll see who's swimming naked". This is a high stakes game and when the cards hit the table, it's not just the US that falls, they will clean the table of all fiat currencies and will have their replacement ready. All Ben did was up the stakes, you in?
reply to post by Observor
What reality are you talking about?
Or... they could learn to reduce the deficit by spending what they actually have instead of extracting wealth from the existing economy via inflation to cover their own debts! Oh no what reality am I talking about... the Government living within their means? Hahaha...
Letting the economy go through a natural dip and recovery process would be much more effective than what they are doing now. The problem is they think they can artificially control the course of the economy and steer it where they want it to go, instead of allowing the natural flow of the economy to go in the direction it wants to go. Their one fit solution for absolutely everything is just to print some more money, they're absolute morons who don't seem to understand a single thing about economics.
edit: well actually, as the poster above me states, they probably know very well what they are doing, it's just not in the best interest of the American people.
The policy will have no effect if the Federal Government decides not to issue shortterm bonds or the market buys them up.
What reality are you talking about?
If the Fed did not make these changes, then the only recourse for the Federal Government to make up for the budgetary deficit, when there are no takers for its bonds, would be to issue a parallel currency to the one issued by the Fed.
Or... they could learn to reduce the deficit by spending what they actually have instead of extracting wealth from the existing economy via inflation to cover their own debts! Oh no what reality am I talking about... the Government living within their means? Hahaha...
It is not as if the Fed has any options.
Letting the economy go through a natural dip and recovery process would be much more effective than what they are doing now. The problem is they think they can artificially control the course of the economy and steer it where they want it to go, instead of allowing the natural flow of the economy to go in the direction it wants to go. Their one fit solution for absolutely everything is just to print some more money, they're absolute morons who don't seem to understand a single thing about economics.
edit: well actually, as the poster above me states, they probably know very well what they are doing, it's just not in the best interest of the American people.
edit on 13/12/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Observor
The policy will have no effect if the Federal Government decides not to issue shortterm bonds or the market buys them up.
What reality are you talking about?
What part of it didn't you get? The Fed cannot buy assets (Government debt) unless they are on offer.
If the Fed did not make these changes, then the only recourse for the Federal Government to make up for the budgetary deficit, when there are no takers for its bonds, would be to issue a parallel currency to the one issued by the Fed.
Or... they could learn to reduce the deficit by spending what they actually have instead of extracting wealth from the existing economy via inflation to cover their own debts! Oh no what reality am I talking about... the Government living within their means? Hahaha...
That is the government's decision, not the Fed's.
It is not as if the Fed has any options.
Letting the economy go through a natural dip and recovery process would be much more effective than what they are doing now. The problem is they think they can artificially control the course of the economy and steer it where they want it to go, instead of allowing the natural flow of the economy to go in the direction it wants to go. Their one fit solution for absolutely everything is just to print some more money, they're absolute morons who don't seem to understand a single thing about economics.
edit: well actually, as the poster above me states, they probably know very well what they are doing, it's just not in the best interest of the American people.
To make up for the budget shortfall, Government can issue Sovereign Credit notes alongside the Federal Reserve notes instead of issuing bonds for the Fed to purchase. Would you prefer that? There is nothing preventing the government from doing so even now and Ben Bernanke's decision would be rendered completely redundant.
reply to post by Observor
Did I say I didn't understand it? I asked what reality you are talking about, because the Government is always going to want to trade its debt for new money, since debt monetization is virtually the only thing allowing them to maintain their massively ridiculous deficit.
I didn't say it was the Fed's decision. The government needs to pull their head into the game too and stop their reckless amount of spending. But the Fed is enabling this by allowing it to happen, and putting the Government further and further into debt. Eventually the government is just going to owe everything to the bankers, and that's exactly how the bankers like it, because it makes us all debt slaves to them.
I would prefer a government issued currency such as the debt-free greenback issued by Lincoln, because it is a much more transparent system where we can see exactly what they are doing. Government officials can be held responsible for their actions, instead of allowing a semi-private entity to have closed books and the ability to create as much currency as they want and loan it out to whom ever they want without any of us knowing. However, I would still not support endless money creation in order to cover deficit spending. I would only support new money creation if it was to stabilize the value of the dollar, and absolutely nothing else.
What part of it didn't you get? The Fed cannot buy assets (Government debt) unless they are on offer.
Did I say I didn't understand it? I asked what reality you are talking about, because the Government is always going to want to trade its debt for new money, since debt monetization is virtually the only thing allowing them to maintain their massively ridiculous deficit.
That is the government's decision, not the Fed's.
I didn't say it was the Fed's decision. The government needs to pull their head into the game too and stop their reckless amount of spending. But the Fed is enabling this by allowing it to happen, and putting the Government further and further into debt. Eventually the government is just going to owe everything to the bankers, and that's exactly how the bankers like it, because it makes us all debt slaves to them.
To make up for the budget shortfall, Government can issue Sovereign Credit notes alongside the Federal Reserve notes instead of issuing bonds for the Fed to purchase. Would you prefer that?
I would prefer a government issued currency such as the debt-free greenback issued by Lincoln, because it is a much more transparent system where we can see exactly what they are doing. Government officials can be held responsible for their actions, instead of allowing a semi-private entity to have closed books and the ability to create as much currency as they want and loan it out to whom ever they want without any of us knowing. However, I would still not support endless money creation in order to cover deficit spending. I would only support new money creation if it was to stabilize the value of the dollar, and absolutely nothing else.
Originally posted by Observor
Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Observor
The policy will have no effect if the Federal Government decides not to issue shortterm bonds or the market buys them up.
What reality are you talking about?
What part of it didn't you get? The Fed cannot buy assets (Government debt) unless they are on offer.
If the Fed did not make these changes, then the only recourse for the Federal Government to make up for the budgetary deficit, when there are no takers for its bonds, would be to issue a parallel currency to the one issued by the Fed.
Or... they could learn to reduce the deficit by spending what they actually have instead of extracting wealth from the existing economy via inflation to cover their own debts! Oh no what reality am I talking about... the Government living within their means? Hahaha...
That is the government's decision, not the Fed's.
It is not as if the Fed has any options.
Letting the economy go through a natural dip and recovery process would be much more effective than what they are doing now. The problem is they think they can artificially control the course of the economy and steer it where they want it to go, instead of allowing the natural flow of the economy to go in the direction it wants to go. Their one fit solution for absolutely everything is just to print some more money, they're absolute morons who don't seem to understand a single thing about economics.
edit: well actually, as the poster above me states, they probably know very well what they are doing, it's just not in the best interest of the American people.
To make up for the budget shortfall, Government can issue Sovereign Credit notes alongside the Federal Reserve notes instead of issuing bonds for the Fed to purchase. Would you prefer that? There is nothing preventing the government from doing so even now and Ben Bernanke's decision would be rendered completely redundant.
It is pedantic to be splitting hairs like you are. Bernanke and Obama are just good cop bad cop.
It doesnt matter what 'credit' America 'can' issue if the Government does not address the economy. The Reserve Status is under attack and so is the petrodollar. Central Banks are moving away from US bonds.
What the world would prefer is to see American leaders at least have a budget and stop adding to the massive seemingly unpayable 16 trillion dollar debt.
reply to post by spangledbanner
I completely agree, that's what I've been saying. But the vast majority of that debt is debt which has been created via debt monetization, that's why if all the debt were paid back there wouldn't be a single dollar left in circulation. Money equals debt in this system, and the national debt is only so large because they have created so much new money in the last few decades. So a large percentage, although not all of it, is more like "imaginary debt" which would not even exist if the government just issued their own debt-free currency.
What the world would prefer is to see American leaders at least have a budget and stop adding to the massive seemingly unpayable 16 trillion dollar debt.
I completely agree, that's what I've been saying. But the vast majority of that debt is debt which has been created via debt monetization, that's why if all the debt were paid back there wouldn't be a single dollar left in circulation. Money equals debt in this system, and the national debt is only so large because they have created so much new money in the last few decades. So a large percentage, although not all of it, is more like "imaginary debt" which would not even exist if the government just issued their own debt-free currency.
edit on 13/12/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no
reason given)
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
Sovereign credit or debt based currency are not the main issues here, irresponsible spending on the part of the government is. If anything, the ability to generate money being one-step removed from the government/Congress delayed this state of affairs.
Sovereign credit or debt based currency are not the main issues here, irresponsible spending on the part of the government is. If anything, the ability to generate money being one-step removed from the government/Congress delayed this state of affairs.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Herein, I will risk the ire and disdain of those whose interpretation gravitates towards the theater of economics and their incessant re-characterization and wordplay about their implementation of monetary policy.
The connection between fiscal policy (government spending) and monetary policy (government borrowing) is not 'true.'
Every unit of currency is 'borrowed' from a private bank. We, as a nation have no constitutional currency; which is to say; all currency is created for and the property of a 'lending institution.' This institution is authorized by the "bank" to create more currency based upon what assets it controls. If the bank has $100 million in outstanding loans... it is authorized to "create" new loans based upon the promise of the payback... $100 million in debt to a bank could easily generate over $1 billion in loans created based upon the "fractional reserve" they are permitted to use as collateral to the central bank.
Buying and selling of government bonds only serves to increase or reduce the money supply in circulation... it is part of the bubble pumping and popping they use to manipulate economies... more money in circulation equal devalued currency - inflation - everything costs more; less means depression.... everyone makes less.
The central banking scheme is the fulcrum upon which our control is leveraged. We as a nation have a constitutional right to create our own currency - without having to borrow it from a bank. Our government is specifically empowered and tasked with doing just that - for the welfare of the nation.... but the welfare of the US might preclude the welfare of some other nations where the global banking cartel want's more influence.... So as Canada begins to complain about their currency value... suddenly the Fed starts manipulating ours.
I am never quite sure I understand how we fail to see that allowing a private bank have a monopoly on our currency, and then paying them interest on it (as if they "produced something") isn't "good for the country."
Understand, all I mean to say is that as long as we keep talking "their game" regarding deficits and their marketing gimmicks (like "cliffs," and the wildly contrived "double-dip" recessions) we fail to address the real problem.... who are these bankers and how is it that they have "a right" to operate as if all wealth were theirs in the first place?
Until we have a national currency we will be at their mercy.... look what they've done to Europe.... it's coming our way... 'confidence' men will tell us about 'risk' - never adding "to my money scheme" at the end of the statement. and they will use words like "consumer confidence" - and not finish the sentence to say - "in our monopoly on money." They will tie this with the "global" market - which is a creation of their own to facilitate more gambling (and profit skimming) at the institutionalized global level. As if their money were the only possible money.
The first mistake of ours is thinking its a "US" dollar.... it's no more "our" dollar than it is "our government."
Our political party (there's only one) "sold out" to the highest bidder... patted themselves on the back for doing so... and became 'rich' (since the courts now call money "speech" more money means more influence - and interfering with their money violates their "speech" rights.... see how sick that is?)
True economic value comes from people - not Central Banking oligarchy and their Orwellian doublespeak of economics theories and sophism... extra DIV
Originally posted by spangledbanner
It is pedantic to be splitting hairs like you are. Bernanke and Obama are just good cop bad cop.
I don't quite see it that way. I see Bernanke as a bureaucrat with limited discretion.
It doesnt matter what 'credit' America 'can' issue if the Government does not address the economy. The Reserve Status is under attack and so is the petrodollar. Central Banks are moving away from US bonds.
Inevitable. Nothing much can be done about it now.
What the world would prefer is to see American leaders at least have a budget and stop adding to the massive seemingly unpayable 16 trillion dollar debt.
May be. But Americans' preferences seem to be different. It is Americans that control their currency, not the world. Of course, the current spending decisions are not going to yield the hoped for results, but then as long as there are those who pretend they will and the majority believe the pretenders, not much can be done.
The ball has been set in motion long ago and not much anyone can do right now to stop it.
Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
Sovereign credit or debt based currency are not the main issues here, irresponsible spending on the part of the government is. If anything, the ability to generate money being one-step removed from the government/Congress delayed this state of affairs.
I agree that irresponsible spending is the main problem here, but the Fed certainly doesn't help. For example, in a partial audit of the Federal Reserve last year, it was revealed that the Fed made at least $16 trillion in secret loans to not only member banks but even foreign banks and other such entities. This lack of transparency is one of the main problems. With a government controlled currency we can have the transparency required and we can also place strict laws and regulations on when and how much currency they can create, and it also solves the whole problem of a debt-based economy. Putting the entire economy in the hands of private bankers is one of the worste things we have ever done.
edit on 13/12/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Agit8dChop
Hmmm, assets are stuff.
Does this mean the Fed is buying up America with money that they print?
This means that the Fed will own the USA and everything in it.
They ruin your economy, they charge interest on printed money and they offer to own you when you cannot pay anymore.
Sounds like a Coup d'état
Hmmm, assets are stuff.
Does this mean the Fed is buying up America with money that they print?
This means that the Fed will own the USA and everything in it.
They ruin your economy, they charge interest on printed money and they offer to own you when you cannot pay anymore.
Sounds like a Coup d'état
reply to post by Maxmars
Simply put, and extremely well said!
If only we had heeded Jefferson's warning about permitting the bankers to control our money supply, we would not be in this 'mess'. One day, soon possibly, we shall all wake up in a nation we no longer own, nor recognize.
Simply put, and extremely well said!
If only we had heeded Jefferson's warning about permitting the bankers to control our money supply, we would not be in this 'mess'. One day, soon possibly, we shall all wake up in a nation we no longer own, nor recognize.
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