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Hillsborough - The Disaster, the Cover-up..

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posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 04:54 AM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


my younger brother was in the same class as one of the 96
he lived near where we live
sadly his brother took his own life a short while after
losing his BRO

VERY SAD Still brings tears to my eyes to this day that
96 lost there lives that day + those that ended theirs
after

edit on 20/12/2012 by maryhinge because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by SprocketUK
 


Yeas i have been to a concert , never ever seen rock fans do that to such an extent ever .



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by gambon
 


Seen them do what? Get packed together so tight they can't control where they're moving? You either follow small bands or have been lucky to attend supremely well managed venues, fella.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by SprocketUK
reply to post by gambon
 


Seen them do what? Get packed together so tight they can't control where they're moving? You either follow small bands or have been lucky to attend supremely well managed venues, fella.


well over 300 gigs in 42 years , they cant all of been so well organised surely , maybe it something to do with the mindset.Those outside wernt Packed together apart from tring to get the outr gate opened ....outside of anywhere is a big place is it not.


edit on 20-12-2012 by gambon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 05:54 AM
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reply to post by gambon
 


Again with the mindset...seems the government programming has taken root really deeply.

Big crowds, once they reach a certain density are beyond the control of the people in them. No amount of pushing back or trying not to push will make a jot of difference.
This wasn't about idiot people not giving a damn and pushing to get in. If it was, then there would have been the same thing week in week out. I went to matches all through the 70's and 80's...still go now, but not so often (it's expensive).

People were herded into pens, pushed along by coppers on horses, squashed into tiny spaces as a matter of routine...How on earth would someone in that crowd know it was any different? You can't see much in that situation.

Like I've said over and over, in previous years the cops knew about the problem with Leppings Lane, because they only allowed people to approach it in a managed fashion. Under Chief Inspector Duckenfield (on his first ever match) there was no police control on the approach to the ground, they just let everyone get there and pile up at the turnstiles...then opened the gate and let them go down the tunnel into the already packed pens.

They did nothing to stop it, their only action was when they realised they messed up and they started with the lies...saying the fans broke the gate down, saying they were fighting, saying they were drunk, saying they were ticketless...all lies, all proven to be lies.

Mud sticks I guess.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:01 AM
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Yeah and all liverpool fans were saints on that day.
The denial that any fan could of been a factor is a disgrace.

the stereotype of scousers in the uk is one of a victim mentality ( not just about hillsborough) are stereotypes stereotypes for a reason?

Is it not concievable that just once someone could say , well tbh we( the fans who let hooligans run riot in the 8o,s of all teams) could be partly to blame?

Watch the video I posted from the report and tell me you see all liverpool fans behaving totally correctly because I certainly dont.

edit on 20-12-2012 by gambon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:02 AM
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read this today:

New Police Inquiry into Hillsborough Disaster

Original reports when it happened stated they delayed opening the gates and when they did decide to open them, the people who rushed to it were crushed. I also remember on the news that the police at the time were criticized because they would not open the other exits. Anyway, very dark day and the media footage was horrific and I am only going on memory. Thanks for the info



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by SprocketUK
 


omg I have been to concerts and the mosh pit has caused people to be crushed to death. They have a tighter grip on it now and is well controlled and even at stupid bloody sales, people have been crushed to death.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by SprocketUK
 


"Big crowds, once they reach a certain density are beyond the control of the people in them. No amount of pushing back or trying not to push will make a jot of difference. "

So why are you trying to avert blame everywhere else then?
What were the police/groundspeople and workers meant to do if" No amount of pushing back or trying not to push will make a jot of difference. "

sounds AND LOOKS like a crowd out of controll to me ,one with no self control whatsoever.

edit on 20-12-2012 by gambon because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-12-2012 by gambon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by gambon
Yeas i have been to a concert , never ever seen rock fans do that to such an extent ever .


I have and one of the big days out gigs was cancelled because of a crushing death.
Jessica Michalik

crowded venues, there is always a risk.
edit on 20/12/2012 by Thurisaz because: edit



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:11 AM
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reply to post by gambon
 


I knew it wouldn't take long.
Yeah scousers, all that old rubbish. Is it any wonder that when people continue to spout rubbish about Liverpool fans causing the whole thing and playing the victim card that we get angry? no. There has been almost a quarter of a century of this and even when faced with the evidence of the epic scale of the coverup some idiots still cling to the old rubbish.

I repeat, if it was all about fans, why didn't this happen at every big match up and down the country, every week? Cos let's face it, there are clubs with far more of a reputation for dodgy fans than Liverpool... This was a big match that was in the wrong place and mismanaged to such an extent that people were going to be killed, whatever scarves they wore.



There is no point in trying to pick out the guy that had too many beers, or the one who didn't have a ticket. They were at every game and what's more, they didn't cause this disaster or make it worse. They are as relevant to what happened as the ratio of addidas trainers to doc martens. ie: not at all. As has been shown both in the original inquest and since, time and again.Edited to say that the blame lies with the people who let the crowd build up...but I get the impression you probably aren't interested in understanding, you have your opinion and it's comfortable for you and convenient to use as a stick with which to poke and prod at other's sensibilities.
edit on 20-12-2012 by SprocketUK because: extra post

edit on 20-12-2012 by SprocketUK because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by Thurisaz

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by SprocketUK
 


Yeas i have been to a concert , never ever seen rock fans do that to such an extent ever .


I have and one of the big days out gigs was cancelled because of a crushing death.
Jessica Michalik

crowded venues, there is always a risk.


I agree with you thurisaz, this Is why crowds should be expected to act in a decent manner when gaining entry and inside an enclosed space.I do not see that in the video of the outide area at all.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:17 AM
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reply to post by gambon
 


people behave differently once panic sets in. SproketUK makes valid points and media did blame the victims...that is a fact. Tried to remove responsibility by portraying them as hooligans which was not true.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:18 AM
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So what caused the panic outside , missing a fa cup semi final?

hat4uk.wordpress.com...


www.annaraccoon.com...



edit on 20-12-2012 by gambon because: added link which says what I and others obviously feel, but written more succinctly than I could do

edit on 20-12-2012 by gambon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by gambon
 


Like I've said numerous times in two threads now, people were directed by a policeman through an exit fence into a tunnel with a down-ward gradient, through which it would have been impossible to see what was going on at the other end of the tunnel until you were there. The policeman who opened the tunnel was under the impression that the stadium wasn't full, and so it can be assumed that the fans outside were too.

Again, this thread isn't about who is to blame, because there never is one clear position of blame in such as large disaster (and no, that doesn't make it an 'accident') it is about the widespread cover-up that occurred after it and the multitude of errors, incompetence and nonchalance that lead to the disaster.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:30 AM
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2.3.29 The immediate approach to the west end of the stadium was on a bend in Leppings Lane. On arrival at the stadium Liverpool fans entering the West Stand, the Leppings Lane terrace and the North Stand passed through gates in an outer fence before entering a divided concourse leading to the turnstiles.

2.3.30 The outer concourse was a tightly confined area between a wall and a fence above the River Don. As stated in Part 1, managing the crowd approaching, and within, the outer concourse was crucial in avoiding crushing at the turnstiles.

2.3.31 In a submission to the Taylor Inquiry a journalist, David Walker, described the 1987 policing arrangements.[10] They included 'snake queues' from the Leppings Lane turnstiles, 'two or three abreast ... so there was no surge on particular turnstile entrances'. The queues were 'probably 30 or 40 yards' long. Further back, on the street approach were 'Police checkpoint barriers to check that you had a ticket before you actually got around the perimeter of the ground'.

That explains how it was dealt with previously, when there were no deaths.

In 1989 there were no such measures which led to the massing of people at the turnstiles..
hillsborough.independent.gov.uk...

There's the report should you wish to read it and gain an understanding.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:33 AM
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reply to post by gambon
 


that is the same as trying to blame all the fans of Limp Bizkit for the death of Jessica before the band came on that were drinking alcohol and being rowdy.


“the reason for the crowd behaving the way it did”, though accepted that the crowds’ “behaviour will greatly be governed by the act performing”...

Findings and Recommendations by the Coronial Inquest into the Death of Jessica Michalik

The quote is from a different event but it is relevant here especially if you are trying to portray that the soccer fan's behaviour contributed to the disaster. That is not true.


edit on 20/12/2012 by Thurisaz because: grammar



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:33 AM
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reply to post by SprocketUK
 


look at the video I linked to and tell me ALL fans were blameless.

The videos from the new report no less.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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The video, in which the narrator attaches no blame to fans, showed me that far too many fans showed up on the day. So why doesn't this happen anymore? Because of increased regulation, which is a responsibility of the police, not the fans.

I didn't see aggressive pushing, but I saw a lot of desperation for space, both ouside and inside the stadium, and a lot of momentum going through people which they could do nothing about. If anything the video supports the idea that the police were largely responsible. Fans were directed by the police through the tunnel with a plan (to close access to the central pens) that was not carried out correctly, despite the fact that the same plan was carried out correctly in the previous year.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by twfau
 


strange how events with just as many if not more people attending require a quarter of the police presence , why is that?



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