Scotland Yard investigating allegations senior politicians abused children in the 1980s and used 'c

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
In November a witness to longterm abuse in a Welsh care home, Steve Messham, was the victim of character assasinations in the press when he spoke out and a certain Tory MP that WAS investigated in the 90's about abuse was the one getting the apologies and compensation.

Right, nice one for posting this thread, but lets clear things up a bit, shall we?

First off, Steven Messham wasn't "character assassinated" at all. He, in conjunction with Newsnight, made a false allegation which he later retracted and which caused great problems for the BBC and was slanderous against an individual who had nothing to do with the the Wrexham Care home abuse.

Secondly, Lord McAlpine was exonirated as part of that original inquiry, you are mistaken.

If we're going to discuss something as potentially serious and widespread as this network of freaks, lets at least try to be accurate and not repeat the garbage that landed much better investigators than us in hot water.

edit on 13/12/12 by stumason because: (no reason given)

Privare Eye ran an article recently on Steven Messham, I can't provide a link or recall it accurately as I don't have it at hand ( and they don't do online without paying for it...so no link).
It said that they were hoodwinked by him in an article they ran years ago ( much like the BBC were), but they seemed to be extremely sympathetic towards him as he really is a bit messed up due to what he has been through.

What I found interesting was that they mentioned that after the Dr. Kelly affair was that the BBC put procedures in place that meant that they would never run a story with a single source.
Not following this procedure has bitten them on the bum, again.

If you really want to read an amazing story, please do a google search for 'scallywag' and 'Angus James Wilson'.
If you are interested at all then he was the co-founder of scallywag magazine who died in bizarre circumstances. I'm not even going to mention what the story is about ( due to fear of getting the arse sued out of me) but a search will get you onto the story in about 10 seconds.
As to the truth of the story... I can't possibly say, but it is a good read.

Originally posted by Knobby

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
In November a witness to longterm abuse in a Welsh care home, Steve Messham, was the victim of character assasinations in the press when he spoke out and a certain Tory MP that WAS investigated in the 90's about abuse was the one getting the apologies and compensation.

Right, nice one for posting this thread, but lets clear things up a bit, shall we?

First off, Steven Messham wasn't "character assassinated" at all. He, in conjunction with Newsnight, made a false allegation which he later retracted and which caused great problems for the BBC and was slanderous against an individual who had nothing to do with the the Wrexham Care home abuse.

Secondly, Lord McAlpine was exonirated as part of that original inquiry, you are mistaken.

If we're going to discuss something as potentially serious and widespread as this network of freaks, lets at least try to be accurate and not repeat the garbage that landed much better investigators than us in hot water.

edit on 13/12/12 by stumason because: (no reason given)

Privare Eye ran an article recently on Steven Messham, I can't provide a link or recall it accurately as I don't have it at hand ( and they don't do online without paying for it...so no link).
It said that they were hoodwinked by him in an article they ran years ago ( much like the BBC were), but they seemed to be extremely sympathetic towards him as he really is a bit messed up due to what he has been through.

What I found interesting was that they mentioned that after the Dr. Kelly affair was that the BBC put procedures in place that meant that they would never run a story with a single source.
Not following this procedure has bitten them on the bum, again.

If you really want to read an amazing story, please do a google search for 'scallywag' and 'Angus James Wilson'.
If you are interested at all then he was the co-founder of scallywag magazine who died in bizarre circumstances. I'm not even going to mention what the story is about ( due to fear of getting the arse sued out of me) but a search will get you onto the story in about 10 seconds.
As to the truth of the story... I can't possibly say, but it is a good read.

Excellent stuff, thanks for bringing this info forwards, I had no idea.
Im a bit perplexed to be honest. The Police, and now the press, are getting a shoeing for doing bog all about all of this 20 odd years ago and beyond, yet, AFAIK, Savile, a friend of British Royalty, fundraiser extraordinaire, Hospital Porter volunteer and the BBCs Premiere league asset only had TWO separate complaints made against him with two different forces. Ok, blame procedure ( lack of info sharing/collation) and assume that one individual complaint wouldnt have even got to court in view of his Deity status in British society but dont blame the police for sweeping it under the carpet!!
Plenty of celebrities over the decades have been arrested and prosecuted for sexual offences, its not like every bloody force in the country was under Saviles influence.
Sorry, we are all going headlong into conspiracy theory territory, ya know, there is a secret society, high up in the establishment who sacrifice children at the altar of Satan after they have had their wicked way with them and nobody will bring them to Justice coz da Queen is a lizard and Cameron and Milliband are really shapeshifting Elephantic beings from the core of Mercury, working within to turn us into a heaving writhing mass of disgusting sexual practises and Earth destroyers.
Lets have a sense of proportion here. Saviles death relinquished his power and control over his victims, they could say whatever they wanted without fear of reprisals or, more to the point, people not believing them.
The care home scandal is just another care home scandal, Its not the first just as there will be another Scout leader, in the future, who will be convicted of sexually abusing boys, ditto Priests and female teachers WILL have sexual relationships with underage lads. Bears also sh*t in the woods.
Maybe we need to let the police do what they need to do without shouting "fix" or "conspiracy" before they have finished investigating?

Paedophilia and child abuse seems to be common practice in the elitest circles, there have been some accounts by those that have been abused in the past that they were being used as part of masonic rituals and passed around at elitest paedophile orgy's.

I believe this to have been and to continue to be a very harsh reality!

These people are sick, they are mentally derranged and their crimes are abhorrent and sicken us normal folk, yet it seems to be an institutionalized form of ritual abuse in these higher circles.

This takes place all over the world in all the upper eschalons of the elite and what has been uncovered so far is nothing more than the tip of the iceberg in my opinion.

There is a very clear effort in the UK media to try an isolate this as the activities of a certain few and to make bogey men out of those that they parade in the media as filth, when the very newsmakers, politicians and people of power continue to get away with it and they see themselves as untouchable.

This is absolutely disgusting and the activities of these elitist scum needs to be highlighted to the masses so we can take the power back off these individuals who not only molest and abuse our children but run the world as they see fit.

A message to the elitist scum: You are NOT untouchable and one day you and your kind shall have your day of reckoning!

reply to post by LFN69


You sort of beat me to what I was saying!

I agree though even if your point is not quite angled the same as mine... I do believe that this is a far wider thing being orchestrated by the elite and their "secret" societies.

justice is here...


all hidden truths are revealed..



thank you

reply to post by DrHammondStoat




Never forge the 100,000 dollar documentary that was almost immediately taken off of air from the Discovery channel:

"Conspiracy of Silence" is a powerful, disturbing documentary revealing a nationwide child abuse and pedophilia ring that leads to the highest levels of government. Featuring intrepid investigator John DeCamp, a highly decorated Vietnam war veteran and 16-year Nebraska state senator, "Conspiracy of Silence" reveals how rogue elements at all levels of government have been involved in systematic child abuse and pedophilia to feed the base desires of key politicians....

This is an excellent find! I thought right away about the "deep web" and it's notoriety for child sex rings and other illegal sexual activity for profit. If this news is true then this might explain why there is a continuous vast market for these matters running rampantly on the deep web with no real visible or successful efforts to put an end to it for so many years? Just speculation

reply to post by Resentedhalo08




Spot on with your post there

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
In November a witness to longterm abuse in a Welsh care home, Steve Messham, was the victim of character assasinations in the press when he spoke out and a certain Tory MP that WAS investigated in the 90's about abuse was the one getting the apologies and compensation.

Right, nice one for posting this thread, but lets clear things up a bit, shall we?

First off, Steven Messham wasn't "character assassinated" at all. He, in conjunction with Newsnight, made a false allegation which he later retracted and which caused great problems for the BBC and was slanderous against an individual who had nothing to do with the the Wrexham Care home abuse.

Secondly, Lord McAlpine was exonirated as part of that original inquiry, you are mistaken.



If we're going to discuss something as potentially serious and widespread as this network of freaks, lets at least try to be accurate and not repeat the garbage that landed much better investigators than us in hot water.

edit on 13/12/12 by stumason because: (no reason given)

Well you haven't 'cleared things up for me' and I don't think I'm repeating 'garbage'.

Steeve Messham NEVER NAMED McAlpine! The name was thrust into the spotlight by others who speculated about what he said. Messham was told his abuser was McAlpine by the police. I have only ever said Mcalpine was investigated by Waterhouse, which is true, it happened, I'm not mistaken on that point.

There were a number of news articles that could be viewed as asassination pieces on Messham. Such as ;

A victim of his delusions: Astonishing story the BBC DIDN'T tell you about its troubled star witness
He assaulted QC at inquiry and was branded 'unreliable witness'
Triggered £400k libel payout after false sex abuse accusation
Stood trial for £65k fraud at charity for victims of the scandal
Even his lawyer says he may have invented stories Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

This is a very patronising article that doesn't mention that the money Steve Messham was accused of stealing was his compensation money from years of abuse. The fraud investigation into him began when he began naming names again. He was cleared and exonerated of these charges.

It also brands him as unreliable, although much of his confusion results from the effects of years of abuse as is the case with children who have been the subject of prolonged physical and mental abuse.

As for Operation Fairbank getting 'no mention' in the press, I didn't intend for that to be taken so literally but I did explain in my opening post that it was half way down in the DM article about Savile and of course it's on the independent website. So one full newspaper article and a BBC Page! I also compared the coverage to that of the Savile case and Yewtree. It's obviously not getting much press is it?

I would have thought an investigation into a high level goverment paeodophile ring might be a bit more newsworthy.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
I agree with you about the celeb that wasn't charged or named. It's just possible he was innocent and the police have an agenda to make an example of well known entertainers at the moment.

The only agenda the Police would have is the fact they are obliged to investigate all allegations made to them. The fact someone is arrested is in no way indicative of them actually committing a crime or being guilty of anything. Thinking otherwise is dangerous and subverts the whole judicial process.

How can you be so sure of the 'only agenda' the police would have?

I am basing my view on the facts that there are paeodophile suspects within the police force. Victims came forward and were dismissed by police, Saville was friendly with police and never charged in his life. It's just possible some people within the Police may have their own interest to protect. Abuse Investigations have been stopped by our government before when they highlighted 'inconvienient' names. Again that demonstrates a certain agenda.

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
I agree with you about the celeb that wasn't charged or named. It's just possible he was innocent and the police have an agenda to make an example of well known entertainers at the moment.

The only agenda the Police would have is the fact they are obliged to investigate all allegations made to them. The fact someone is arrested is in no way indicative of them actually committing a crime or being guilty of anything. Thinking otherwise is dangerous and subverts the whole judicial process.

How can you be so sure of the 'only agenda' the police would have?

I am basing my view on the facts that there are paeodophile suspects within the police force. Victims came forward and were dismissed by police, Saville was friendly with police and never charged in his life. It's just possible some people within the Police may have their own interest to protect. Abuse Investigations have been stopped by our government before when they highlighted 'inconvienient' names. Again that demonstrates a certain agenda.

Whether previous investigations have been stopped because it was "inconvienient" is no longer relevant.
What is happening now is an avalanche, it doesnt matter whether there are abusers within the Force, Government or any other walk of public life, If their names are brought forwards they will be persued.
What happened 20 years ago is not a die that has been cast for present investigations because something has changed. People are coming forwards and will continue to do so, the climate of fear has erroded.
We now know about Savile, Sir Cyril Smith and of a Childrens radio celebrity from the 1960s, all prolific child abusers. I doubt very much whether the public will accept any half arsed investigation.
We have to stop refering back to the past, its the here and now and the Police are investigating and, yes call me naive, they will investigate within their own ranks as well as Politicians and celebrities. If they are still out there, they will be found, ive no doubt.
Im sorry but i cannot run along with the conspiracy theories that suggest that this is a massive paedo ring that has been protected by people in high places, i just cant.

reply to post by DrHammondStoat

Jimmy so VILE said that if he was arrested then he would take half the cop shop with him. So its no wonder they were never interested in arresting him. Im still waiting for the police to arrest some one linked to prime ministers.
Haut de la garene in Jersey would be a good place to focus their efforts on.

Originally posted by LFN69

Im sorry but i cannot run along with the conspiracy theories that suggest that this is a massive paedo ring that has been protected by people in high places, i just cant.

Isn't it convenient that Savile and Cyril Smith are dead? People can sigh a sigh of relief and think it was just a few odd perverts that are now deceased, nothing to see here.....What makes it impossible for politicians involved with a network of abuse? Many care homes were involved over many years, that's a staggering amont of abuse and it would be naive not to think there was some degree of organisation and collusion between the care home staff and people outside the homes. Scallywag magazine linked various MPs to the abuse in the 90's.

Sources have confirmed to the Guardian that the names and credit card details of the two MPs are on a list of subscribers to a child porn internet portal sent to Scotland Yard by the US authorities. The MPs, who are both reported to be former Labour ministers, are the latest public figures to become caught up in Operation Ore, the largest inquiry into child pornography undertaken in the UK.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Operation Ore........In all, 3,744 people were investigated and arrested. The list included Ministers, MPs and members of the British establishment.....

(Source wiki)


I can't remember many ex Labour ministers and mps ever being mentioned in relation to the investigation. The Who guitarist Pete Townsend was named and cautioned but not the ex-ministers. We have got plenty of c list celebrities now though. i'm really not convinced it's any different from 9 or 20 years ago.

reply to post by illuminnaughty


He did indeed and he had his meetings with police every week at his flat in Leeds.

I'm very doubtful we'll get anything but a few scapegoat Mp's arrested in operation Fairbank.

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
reply to post by illuminnaughty

 

He did indeed and he had his meetings with police every week at his flat in Leeds.

I'm very doubtful we'll get anything but a few scapegoat Mp's arrested in operation Fairbank.

Exactly, and if it does get too uncomfortable and people too near the top or royals start to become suspects, then It'll be buried as it always is.

D-notices.... 100 year BS orders... blah blah.... justice.

What a joke this whole thing is.

And STILL... most people don't know, don't care or are too busy watching crap TV to even take notice.

Originally posted by Resentedhalo08
Paedophilia and child abuse seems to be common practice in the elitest circles, there have been some accounts by those that have been abused in the past that they were being used as part of masonic rituals and passed around at elitest paedophile orgy's.

I believe this to have been and to continue to be a very harsh reality!

These people are sick, they are mentally derranged and their crimes are abhorrent and sicken us normal folk, yet it seems to be an institutionalized form of ritual abuse in these higher circles.

Now wait a damn minute. First there is nothing proving who is involved or what took place. Can't you see how the statement you made will be followed by others who will blindly say"Yea! Kill all the Freemasons and the elite! They rape our children!"

Evidence first, executions second.

Deny ignorance, don't openly display it.

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat

Originally posted by LFN69

Im sorry but i cannot run along with the conspiracy theories that suggest that this is a massive paedo ring that has been protected by people in high places, i just cant.

Isn't it convenient that Savile and Cyril Smith are dead? People can sigh a sigh of relief and think it was just a few odd perverts that are now deceased, nothing to see here.....What makes it impossible for politicians involved with a network of abuse? Many care homes were involved over many years, that's a staggering amont of abuse and it would be naive not to think there was some degree of organisation and collusion between the care home staff and people outside the homes. Scallywag magazine linked various MPs to the abuse in the 90's.

Sources have confirmed to the Guardian that the names and credit card details of the two MPs are on a list of subscribers to a child porn internet portal sent to Scotland Yard by the US authorities. The MPs, who are both reported to be former Labour ministers, are the latest public figures to become caught up in Operation Ore, the largest inquiry into child pornography undertaken in the UK.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Operation Ore........In all, 3,744 people were investigated and arrested. The list included Ministers, MPs and members of the British establishment.....

(Source wiki)


I can't remember many ex Labour ministers and mps ever being mentioned in relation to the investigation. The Who guitarist Pete Townsend was named and cautioned but not the ex-ministers. We have got plenty of c list celebrities now though. i'm really not convinced it's any different from 9 or 20 years ago.

I dont think I ever said that it was impossible for Politicians to be involved, on the contrary, Smith was supplied with children from Care homes!
All I can say is that, after being on this planet for nearly 50 years, i cannot ever recall a scandal like this that has been blown so wide open that for those involved to hide would be like trying to secrete an elephant in your underpants.
Cyril Smiths outing came some two years after his death, im assuming that it was also convenient to have outed him a few months after he died so why wait two years?
The reason he has been finally outed is because of the sh*t storm that has erupted over Savile and why he was allowed to blatantly carry on abusing when he was known to be an abuser by many many people around him.
The notion, currently, that high profile figures will be protected from their previous offences, let alone can carry on regardless as they bask in the protection of shadowy figures is being and will be dismantled.
We keep going back to previous accusations and operations but none of those were made in the light of whats happened over the last ten weeks.
It could be said, with some justification, that the original Newsnight broadcast investigation over Savile was, indeed, swept under the carpet. Unfortunately they didnt bank on ITV bringing out a documentary blowing it all apart.
Thats the current, here and now issue, the game has changed and no Leveson report, no Chief Constable, senior Political figure or well loved entertainer is going to be able to keep a lid on it, blimey, even Max Clifford was taken in for questioning, a man hitherto seen as an almighty power in Public life and virtually untouchable.
Its all beginning to unravel, slowly but surely.
Ive no doubt that there has been widespread abuse eminating from care homes, there was also wide scale abuse in the workhouses of the 19th century so nothing has changed there.
Im just wondering what percentage of those abusers are "high profile" as, with a population of 60 odd million in this country, there will inevitably be high profile characters involved in abuse but, proportionately, I cant see it being epidemic numbers.
Each to their own opinion, I suppose.

Just disgusting. I'm actually writing a paper on Jimmy Savile and how sexual abuse of minors is rampant in the entertainment industry.

I might make a post about all my findings to see if it should be explored more...or am I poking a hornet's nest

Originally posted by stargatetravels
This seems like fantastic news, yet every investigation so far gets stopped, diverted & closed down.
If I believe this investigation was truly out to uncover the truth and honestly investigate, regardless of where the investigation takes them, I would be over the moon, however, whenever previous investigations have got too close to elite politicians or to royalty (yes there are senior royals who have abused children) or to any serious top level people, the investigation eventually collapses.

They also have secret courts, they edit statements, they stop victims from naming certain people and, as far as I'm aware, children in care are actually NOT allowed to accuse someone of abuse and their testimony is not permissible... Something jack straw introduced, although I'm not entirely clear of exactly the rule/ban, perhaps someone can correct/help me?

Anyway, call me a cynic but I won't be holding my breath.

If that's ture about kids not being 'allowed' to report abuse due to Jack Straws legislation, it would fit...his brother was arrested for abusing a 14 year old girl when straw was in government...but it was swept under the rug of course.

reply to post by TheToastmanCometh


When you have finished it then by all means stick it up for us. Thanks and keep up the good work you are doing in trying to expose these VILE creatures.