TSA Closing The Vise On Americans Freedom To Travel

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posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by RedShirt73
I'm sure that there will be some young entrepreneur out there somewhere that will come up with a way to either disable or reprogram these devices. There may even be kits available for the DIYer.


Please don't be so naive as to think that the government hasn't covered ALL of their bases on this - the penalty even for an attempted hack will be that the violator will first find himself on the No-Fly list - then he will then be branded a "terrorist" with the very real possibility of being subjected the ominous provisions implicit in the NDAA - Gitmo included.............please do your research. Thank you.




posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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why are all TSA employees slobs and creepy people for the most part?

are these the people they want working for them ? or is that all they can get?


i have seen some seriously gross people working for TSA at a lot of different airports.

the word "skeevy" comes to mind when i think of them



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by Gregorian
 


I was somewhat mistaken when I said that the 2 links were "dead" - it so happened that when I clicked them in a different browser (Safari) they worked fine - sorry about that. Please see below - Thank you.
Go here ---> FEDS WANT BLACK BOXES IN ALL NEW CARS - Automakers are surreptitiously installing them as we speak even before (if at all) the laws are even enacted by Congress.

Please note - ABC blocks certain browsers from viewing their site(s) AND copying is NOT allowed.


Originally posted by Gregorian
EDIT: These 2 links are now dead and the stories cannot be found - but no matter; the links below are just as informative.
1. Fed Tracks All Vehicle Using the "Black Box" technology.
2. Feds want to track you in your vehicle


edit on 13-12-2012 by Gregorian because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by Gregorian

Originally posted by RedShirt73
I'm sure that there will be some young entrepreneur out there somewhere that will come up with a way to either disable or reprogram these devices. There may even be kits available for the DIYer.


Please don't be so naive as to think that the government hasn't covered ALL of their bases on this - the penalty even for an attempted hack will be that the violator will first find himself on the No-Fly list - then he will then be branded a "terrorist" with the very real possibility of being subjected the ominous provisions implicit in the NDAA - Gitmo included.............please do your research. Thank you.


There are many other countries in this world other then the USA and not everything in this world revolves around it and it's laws my friend. So what's stopping people in other parts of the world from doing this??? So to take a line from your post".............please do your research. Thank you".



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Taupin Desciple

Originally posted by DerekJR321

While I agree with your logic, I could see them mandating these boxes.



Then you're reading too much into it. Mandating little black boxes is too cost prohibitive. There's no money to be made from them.

edit on 12-12-2012 by Taupin Desciple because: (no reason given)


There is if you're one of the big US automakers successfully petitioning for the sole rights to the installation of the boxes. Never underestimate the potential to make money from something.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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I'll be glad to see these black boxes installed. I see too many people going too fast for conditions and not paying attention. These people try to blame their actions on the other driver. This will allow the truth to come out as long as it is interpreted right by the officer. I see people driving down the highway that see others pulling out. Since they see that others are at fault, they do not even try to avoid the accident. Does it matter who will be at fault if someone is killed or injured? I would hate to be a cop and give a person a ticket who was pulling into traffic and lost traction when the accident could have been avoided by the other driver. I see people think that if they are in the right legally than nothing is their fault, even though they could avoid this. Is it the fault of the deer you hit at sixty miles an hour when your traveling down a highway with deer all over the place? Legally, it is not your fault, what if your son dies from the accident that happens. Most people would blame it on the deer.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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I'm not sure if this is relevant to this topic, but a few observations I have made lately may apply in someway?

First, I just had to get my car smog tested in order to register it, but what was really odd to me was how extensive the test was compared to past one's I have had, they checked EVERYTHING, where in the past it seemed they hooked up your car for 5 min. and it was done, this new test took about 45 min.....anyways, 2 of 3 cars there didn't pass, I was the lucky one that did........

Anyways...my conspiacy mind clicks in and I think to myself that somehow the goal is to get older cars off the road, and I guess the logic is newer cars cause less pollution...but something about this struck me as disingenous, especially because the cars not passing were both smaller vechicles that seemed in good condition, not gas guzzling clunkers.

I believe GPS devices are pretty standard in new cars, and have also noticed a big campaign with Insurance Co.'s giving discounts if you are willing to install some kind of tracking device in your car. Just seems something is going on there possibly...



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by QQXXw
Vehicle blackboxes are easy to avoid - buy an older car but don't forget to get rid of your mobile phone and social media accounts as well.....

Checkpoints are to check for illegal activity and put more people in prison for drugs as well as deter crime, fine with me, I am tired of all the drug addicts and crime that are involved with public transport, means I have to drive to the city all the time and its about time it all got cleaned up.





You'll need to buy a VERY old car. Tattle Tale style black boxes were making their first appearances in civil court rooms in the late 90's as I recall seeing them pop up. Of course they've been integrated into trucks as well and to a higher level than cars....but cars weren't left out by any means.

You know that onboard computer that runs everything on every car made from about the early-mid 90's on? Yeah..It has a memory too. They all do and they always have. It's nice...these little things the car makers don't figure you need to know about. However, if you have a serious enough wreck and that record was needed to hang ya? You'd see very quickly how much your car...everyone's car...is recording about their actions 24/7.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by RedShirt73

Originally posted by Gregorian

Originally posted by RedShirt73
I'm sure that there will be some young entrepreneur out there somewhere that will come up with a way to either disable or reprogram these devices. There may even be kits available for the DIYer.


Please don't be so naive as to think that the government hasn't covered ALL of their bases on this - the penalty even for an attempted hack will be that the violator will first find himself on the No-Fly list - then he will then be branded a "terrorist" with the very real possibility of being subjected the ominous provisions implicit in the NDAA - Gitmo included.............please do your research. Thank you.


There are many other countries in this world other then the USA and not everything in this world revolves around it and it's laws my friend. So what's stopping people in other parts of the world from doing this??? So to take a line from your post".............please do your research. Thank you".


At first I thought you were merely acting from naivete and perhaps a tad of immaturity, but now I see that you are coming from an altogether different place inasmuch as your response makes little sense with respect to diligent research and knowledge-ability of the subject matter at hand.

Rather than to continue unfruitful conversations here in the main body of the thread - feel free to PM me and I'll be more than happy to assist you with some scholarly materials - if your up to the task that is. I have a wealth of information as regards the topic under discussion that I can readily link you to...........OK?
Thank you for your interest.
edit on 13-12-2012 by Gregorian because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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I know somebody on a no fly list and every where he goes is private jet and 100% tax deductable. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. The government made the rules and ways around them. Kinda like the new tax for the RICH 2 % but with over %10 more deductions. Gotta love the IRS



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Good response...........I worked at the USPS for ten years (1985-95) as a tractor trailer operator. Black Box technology was very much in place at that time and was rather sophisticated as well. Every movement was tracked and traceable for whatever reason.

They were even able to install an auxiliary device, a circular paper disc inside the steering column just below the horn mechanism, and we had to open it up and turn in the report to the dispatcher at the end of our shift.

If we tampered with the report or the mechanism - guess what? The Postal Inspectors were called in - you were carried out by the elbows - then you had to fight to get your job back - usually within 2 years if the Union backed you up - in other words, if you were one of them.
edit on 13-12-2012 by Gregorian because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by Gregorian
 


You need to consider the fact that you are provided the freedom to travel, but you are not guaranteed freedom in the method of travel. The Constitution does not guarantee you that you can travel by whatever method you see fit, only that you have the freedom to travel from point A to point B. The TSA does not stop you from going from New York to Los Angeles. You can bike, drive, or walk. But if you wish to fly, you have to abide by their rules.

I dont begrudge you for wanting to fight the TSA. But If you want to fight the TSA, this is not the argument to bring, because it has no legitimate support.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Thats all and good , but its literally impossible to control the movements of 100s of millions of people. There are too many ways to travel that bypass checkpoints....#1. private planes, boats, horseback, on foot. one only needs to research avenues of possibilities, and avoid potential traps, and if one was desperate and so inclined, one could create a massive diversion and secretly slip under the radar


besides, if you've done nothing wrong, and have nothing to hide, who cares what they think


CB and Ham operators are your kung fu against the dark arts



Oh and by the way, you can manufacture your own transportation:IE, cars, motorcycles, boats , planes, ETC, the state will legalize them, no black box required
edit on 13-12-2012 by SPECULUM because: just cuz



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by flyswatter
reply to post by Gregorian
 


You need to consider the fact that you are provided the freedom to travel, but you are not guaranteed freedom in the method of travel. The Constitution does not guarantee you that you can travel by whatever method you see fit, only that you have the freedom to travel from point A to point B. The TSA does not stop you from going from New York to Los Angeles. You can bike, drive, or walk. But if you wish to fly, you have to abide by their rules.

I dont begrudge you for wanting to fight the TSA. But If you want to fight the TSA, this is not the argument to bring, because it has no legitimate support.

Wow... are we really going there? The Constitution doesn't say they CAN'T restrict this to death, so of course, they have every right to? Err.... in a word? NO.. They don't!

The 10th Amendment, if we want to get Constitutional about things, says * ALL * which is not specifically spelled out elsewhere in the document IS THE SOLE AREA OF THE STATES TO ADMINISTER. That means about 90% of this hokey crap we see from the Federal Government is outright illegal under our own system of laws.

Of course, the laws are what they SAY the laws are now and we have a former speaker who literally laughed in the face of a MSM reporter when asked in 2009 about the Constitutional Basis for a major piece of national legislation.

Sorry..The Constitution not only fails to imply they have this right of control, is specifically says they DO NOT have it...if anyone ever bothered to even read it anymore.
Obviously, that is far more than we can expect or ask of those we elect. It's such a long and complicated document, after all.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by QQXXw
Vehicle blackboxes are easy to avoid - buy an older car but don't forget to get rid of your mobile phone and social media accounts as well.....

Checkpoints are to check for illegal activity and put more people in prison for drugs as well as deter crime, fine with me, I am tired of all the drug addicts and crime that are involved with public transport, means I have to drive to the city all the time and its about time it all got cleaned up.









Yes, because prohibition is presently, and has historically done a great job at stopping or slowing that which is prohibited.


Let's just criminalize more people and lock them up with violent and/or organized individuals, so they can be even more dangerous to society when they get out (and suddenly find that no one will employ them because of their record).

You have no idea how the system really works, do you?



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by Gregorian

"At first I thought you were merely acting from naivete and perhaps a tad of immaturity, but now I see that you are coming from an altogether different place inasmuch as your response makes little sense with respect to diligent research and knowledge-ability of the subject matter at hand.

Rather than to continue unfruitful conversations here in the main body of the thread - feel free to PM me and I'll be more than happy to assist you with some scholarly materials - if your up to the task that is. I have a wealth of information as regards the topic under discussion that I can readily link you to...........OK?
Thank you for your interest."

Skilled you are at verbal backhanded slaps (trying my yoda impression)
Being in the IT world I know that any device can be subverted/reprogrammed given enough time, energy and money. What I'm trying to say is that not everyone follows the law of the land. If people feel that they do not like the idea of being tracked they can take the law into their own hands regardless of the consequences.
edit on 13-12-2012 by RedShirt73 because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-12-2012 by RedShirt73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by flyswatter
reply to post by Gregorian
 


You need to consider the fact that you are provided the freedom to travel, but you are not guaranteed freedom in the method of travel. The Constitution does not guarantee you that you can travel by whatever method you see fit, only that you have the freedom to travel from point A to point B. The TSA does not stop you from going from New York to Los Angeles. You can bike, drive, or walk. But if you wish to fly, you have to abide by their rules.

I dont begrudge you for wanting to fight the TSA. But If you want to fight the TSA, this is not the argument to bring, because it has no legitimate support.

Wow... are we really going there? The Constitution doesn't say they CAN'T restrict this to death, so of course, they have every right to? Err.... in a word? NO.. They don't!

The 10th Amendment, if we want to get Constitutional about things, says * ALL * which is not specifically spelled out elsewhere in the document IS THE SOLE AREA OF THE STATES TO ADMINISTER. That means about 90% of this hokey crap we see from the Federal Government is outright illegal under our own system of laws.

Of course, the laws are what they SAY the laws are now and we have a former speaker who literally laughed in the face of a MSM reporter when asked in 2009 about the Constitutional Basis for a major piece of national legislation.

Sorry..The Constitution not only fails to imply they have this right of control, is specifically says they DO NOT have it...if anyone ever bothered to even read it anymore.
Obviously, that is far more than we can expect or ask of those we elect. It's such a long and complicated document, after all.


I'm not the world's biggest fan of the TSA. As I said, I take no issue with fighting the TSA over this whole thing, but I am being realistic about it when it comes to HOW to fight it - the issue of it being Constitutional or not is not going to fly (har har, no pun intended) as a valid argument. I believe that a more effective way of fighting the TSA (within law and reason, of course) is approaching it from a privacy angle, and it will domino from there.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by flyswatter
reply to post by Gregorian
 


You need to consider the fact that you are provided the freedom to travel, but you are not guaranteed freedom in the method of travel. The Constitution does not guarantee you that you can travel by whatever method you see fit, only that you have the freedom to travel from point A to point B. The TSA does not stop you from going from New York to Los Angeles. You can bike, drive, or walk. But if you wish to fly, you have to abide by their rules.

I dont begrudge you for wanting to fight the TSA. But If you want to fight the TSA, this is not the argument to bring, because it has no legitimate support.

Wow... are we really going there? The Constitution doesn't say they CAN'T restrict this to death, so of course, they have every right to? Err.... in a word? NO.. They don't!

The 10th Amendment, if we want to get Constitutional about things, says * ALL * which is not specifically spelled out elsewhere in the document IS THE SOLE AREA OF THE STATES TO ADMINISTER. That means about 90% of this hokey crap we see from the Federal Government is outright illegal under our own system of laws.

Of course, the laws are what they SAY the laws are now and we have a former speaker who literally laughed in the face of a MSM reporter when asked in 2009 about the Constitutional Basis for a major piece of national legislation.

Sorry..The Constitution not only fails to imply they have this right of control, is specifically says they DO NOT have it...if anyone ever bothered to even read it anymore.
Obviously, that is far more than we can expect or ask of those we elect. It's such a long and complicated document, after all.


I'm not the world's biggest fan of the TSA. As I said, I take no issue with fighting the TSA over this whole thing, but I am being realistic about it when it comes to HOW to fight it - the issue of it being Constitutional or not is not going to fly (har har, no pun intended) as a valid argument. I believe that a more effective way of fighting the TSA (within law and reason, of course) is approaching it from a privacy angle, and it will domino from there.


There is where we disagree. I will say it's not the sexiest argument and it's not the most attractive argument. That's especially true for the idealistic youth who figure anything that doesn't chant well or display well on a website banner or protest sign isn't worth pursuing.

The fact is though, in the realm of LEGAL argument (the only place anything on this ever gets changed...short of civil war..and we'll lose that before it starts right now) the Constitutional isn't just a good argument? It's the only argument.

What else would you argue to show this isn't legal or proper? Opinion or our personal sense of right or wrong hold absolutely 0 value in a court room and won't even be listened to in a place like the Super Court, where some of these will ultimate have to be handled.

I know these approaches are boring and even silly by appearance...but if we toss the LAW as our basis of recourse and fixing the system? There simply IS no OTHER way this can happen ..and in searching for something better, we could deep-six the only avenue of power we have left as citizens.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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Right now you can unplug the box and your vehicle will keep running probably about to change. Don't know what they are going to do about my jeep



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Where in the world did you get the idea that the TSA was involved?

Unless you have another source that shows a connection with the TSA, then your title is faulty and mods need to edit.




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