Originally posted by Nygdan

tgsoe
Yes, but the Pope was killed in similar fasion as was described on FMW wasn't he?

You just said that there was no autopsy, so how could the method of death be known, let alone it be known that he was killed rather than died? I believe thats called an 'internal inconsistency' in the story.

I guess everyone who dies doesn't necessarily get an autopsy. To me it sounds a more suspicious that someone like the Pope didn't get one. Anyhow fact or fiction it was a brilliant plan for masons to take over thier enemy.

And there's a slow, slow train coming, coming round the bend.

Originally posted by TgSoe
To me it sounds a more suspicious that someone like the Pope didn't get one.

I have to wonder at how often the bodies of dead popes are cut up and examined in the first place

Anyhow fact or fiction it was a brilliant plan for masons to take over thier enemy.

What makes you say the freemasons and the RCC are at odds?

And, again, if the Pope died and there was no autopsy, what makes anyone say he was killed, and how can the book detail the method by which he was allegedly killed? No autopsy, no way to know any of that, other than to make it up.

[edit on 7-10-2004 by Nygdan]

The RC church hasn't always been friendly towards freemasonry.

Freemasonry (I'm talking about all the different versions here, not just the male only group) has no opinion on any church or religion and welcomes all.

Freemasonry watch has been around in various incarnations on the web for some time. Until roughly 2+ years ago any search on Google for 'freemasonry' would have brought up that site up plus others that were anti. The main thing they had in common was perpetuating myths and lies about freemasonry. Several ISP's shut down their site following complaints from individual freemasons, they seem to have a relatively stable home with their current provider.
The indiiduals behind FMW have been doing the rounds of various forums and websites, like ATS, spreading their view of freemasonry for a long time. Most people who have been 'forum-ing' for a while will have come across them. It is no surprise to me that they are here - although denying ignorance is the last thing they are managing to achieve. Perpetuating it is more accurate.

One thing to remember - there is no worldwide council/chamber/body/head office/theme park for freemasonry. Any organisation claiming to be is almost certainly false. For this reason it is impossible for enforcement action to be taken to remove lies and falsehoods about freemasonry from the web - freemasons the world over agree on certain fundamentals, but also disagree on a heap of other things.
Also it's a never ending pointless task.
Those who want to find the truth can find it, there are some excellent masonic information sites that provide a whole heap of information for someone who wants to join.

As regards world domination, massed treasure, etc. I wish!
Perhaps I could fit it in on a Wednesday, after Corrie but before the news.......ah, no thats Bro Bill's time....

Originally posted by Janus

Originally posted by LTD602
The person who runs freemasonrywatch is also a member of ATS. He posts on the "secret society" board, too.

[edit on 6-10-2004 by LTD602]

Could i ask how you know that? Did the person contact you and tell you he was the person who runs that website?

Actually, there are several people who claim to run FW, like Connie Berry... they are poseurs. I know now who the real author/owner of that slime heap is, and will keep it to myself unless I need it.

I slipped and fell into that pit a couple of years ago, when I was first raised as a master mason, and was offended by the bilious tripe they posted. It didn't take long for the masons on the board to realize that it was not a serious discussion forum, but a place of sock puppets put up by Connie.

I exposed the host of the site and posted their contact information (they were accolytes of David Icke, if that helps any), and they shortly thereafter dropped FW. the "Chat" room of FW has been closed down about six times now, due to violations of the law, copyright infrignement, slander, defamation, personal threats etc, in which I had no small hand, being, as it were, the subject of many of the threats, attacks, etc.

Now the owner of FW has it hosted on a free-speech forum, which is fine, I have no problem with the website... they have a right to publish what they will, in America anyway, but I personally feel that someone that wishes to speak should also be held accountable for WHAT they say/publish... that is the OTHER half of free speech.

So I undertook an investigation, which lead through a circuitous route through dead ends and anonymous services... take a moment to look and see who the registered owner of FW is, just to see the START of that thread. Money and investigation has ended up with the name and contact information on the owner of the site, and should they start up with the pranks and such they allowed before, they will be pulled before a court in their own country to answer for it.

I was subjected to harrassment, virus laden emails, trojans, spyware etc., which, being as I am on a Macintosh, did little other than SHOW the attack and allow the capture of forensics, which have all been turned over to the FBI. Now, as a result of their actions, attacks, slanders, copyright violations ON THE FORUM, complaints were filed with the hosts of those boards, legitimate complaints, which were acted on by the hosting agencies, and which resulted in the froums being cancelled by EZ board (3x) Bravenet (2x) and another forum I frankly can't remember.

Today, I ignore them, I have Connie and all his sock puppet addresses from Yahoo and SBC, along with the IP ranges he uses blocked, and I NEVER visit FW anymore. However, if they resume their attacks, pressure can be brought to bear against the owner and Connie (Evil Capt Morgan is his primary handle or some variation thereof) to cease and desist.

Primarily, FW is a legend in its own mind... and anyone that takes ANYTHING posted there are serious information deserves the ignorance the receive as a result.

Ok, thankyou for that.
Is the stuff on the main site copyrighted material you spoke of?
I havent visited the Forums you spoke of but have seen the info on the main site. Is all that stuff on there false? Or is some of it genuine and copyrighted?

Originally posted by Janus
Ok, thankyou for that.
Is the stuff on the main site copyrighted material you spoke of?

No, in great part, the copyright violations involved the abuse and misuse of pictures of several brothers, including me.

I havent visited the Forums you spoke of but have seen the info on the main site. Is all that stuff on there false? Or is some of it genuine and copyrighted?

99% of what is posted it false. the remaining 1% is half truth... JUST like the tripe gadfly posts.

I haven't visited it since the site was moved to their own server.

I applaud your efforts Theron. You were TRULY thorough.

Would anyone care for some hemloch coffee? There is another rumor that the pope was brought a cup of poisoned coffee by his secretary and fell dead. The will he was currently working on concerning his last wishes and property were never found.

So there was no autopsy to support this idea and if it was true only the murderers themselves would know, and its all done to cover up some will that no one's ever found .

Originally posted by Nygdan
So there was no autopsy to support this idea and if it was true only the murderers themselves would know, and its all done to cover up some will that no one's ever found .

Uh, that certainly is circular reasoning... remember Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation to fit all the facts is usually the truth... or, more prosaically: When you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras.

A lack of evidence is not, in and of itself, evidence of anything other than a lack of evidence.

Grandpa was a master Mason, I haven't been able to find out if he went any farther than that. I imagine at a third degree he was not let in on any major secrets. Its kind of funny he lived with us about a year when I was just a lad, and he thought if a tree got skinned that it needed some black tar like spray on it. It impressed me then and today all the trees that have been skinned in my yard have black tar paint on them. He loved to grow a garden too, I didn't pick up on that one somehow. I will plant some trees in a NewYork minute though. I love beautiful landscapes.

Originally posted by Icarus
I live in Chicago Illinois. About 1/2 a mile down 63rd street there is a Mason lodge. There are signs all over the street saying, "Free And Ancient Masons Lodge # ***" (I dont remember the lodge number). It doesnt look anything like a church or anything. Just a regular building. I was thinking of going in there some time in the near future to try to get some information about the Masons. Or at least see what they have to say. What do you guys think?

Across the street where I work there's a Mason lodge as well. As a matter of fact, my boss is a Mason. 'Course, he's probably so far down the rungs that he doesn't know squat. Anyway, I went to the lodge site and it says that any man is able to join as long as he believes in God. Well, I'm out. I'm Atheist so I won't be privey to any secrets. Shucks. But the emblem is a circle with a protractor in it with a G for Galileo (I hope I spelled that correct) in the center of it. And yeah, it looks like a warehouse or something. Definately not a brick building or anything.

Originally posted by echelon
yes... but why a catholic fraternity?

So what if it is a catholic fraternity. Since you know the knights homepage read the history of the order. There you will see why it is a catholic fraternity.

Just finished reading the ridiculous fiction Theron and his fellow cultists have just posted about the FW site - Morgan is an "Icke" fan is he?
Of all the books he owns I don't think Icke rates that highly, we had a bit of a chuckle about it via email when "The Beautiful Bretheren" started saying at one point that he WAS David Icke.
Feel free to have a look at the site, it will take the best part of a week to really trawl through it though, its a bit of a mess from having so much stuff added on to it over the last 2 years and there are a couple of dead links on it at the moment but its hard to really find a format that will satisfy the many different types of information that is posted there.

Although I advertise it in my signature - I do not have any actual affiliation with the site.

Oh, by the way, The Freemasons ARE a sinister mind-control cult, you don't see these sorts of things being written about legitimate groups like the Lions Club etc...do you?
I can say this from first hand experience.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Just finished reading the ridiculous fiction Theron and his fellow cultists have just posted about the FW site - Morgan is an "Icke" fan is he?

I would say Mr. Connie Mack Berry is a fan of Mr. Icke he has said so on many occasions. He has named his 7 Discussion forums after Freemasonry Watch, which is a site Contolled by Mr. Ickes empire I believe. However I do belive this man who uses the screen name Morgan or Capt Morgan does a great deal of harm to Mr. Icke's legitimate sales program, he cheapens it. If Mr. Icke is into taking advice, give me a call , I will organise a forum for him, with no sign of the crazzies.

Of all the books he owns I don't think Icke rates that highly, we had a bit of a chuckle about it via email when "The Beautiful Bretheren" started saying at one point that he WAS David Icke.

Well he must rate him slightly as he is in control of the Discussion forum attached to the FW web site. He was also in control of the the old site forum, which was closed down by the service provider. Mr. Icke has every right to use his web sites of which there are many, to promote the sale of his books, indeed I have left links to his sites on many forums.

What he is not entitled to do is print falsehoods whithout being challenged. The problem with making accusations is the accused eventually turns and says , thats enough. Put up or shut up. Which is what is happening now.

Feel free to have a look at the site, it will take the best part of a week to really trawl through it though, its a bit of a mess from having so much stuff added on to it over the last 2 years and there are a couple of dead links on it at the moment but its hard to really find a format that will satisfy the many different types of information that is posted there.

Yes I agree , I would recomend everyone who is interested to check the site out. It certainly used to be in better shape, If Mr. Icke would like my services . I work cheap.

www.freemasonrywatch.org

Although I advertise it in my signature - I do not have any actual affiliation with the site.

And you have every right to do so.

Oh, by the way, The Freemasons ARE a sinister mind-control cult, you don't see these sorts of things being written about legitimate groups like the Lions Club etc...do you?
I can say this from first hand experience.

Great, as we are now in control of your mind we just have to figure out what to do with it.

Originally posted by theron dunn
remember Occam's Razor.

Occam's principle would dictate that the pope died naturally, not that there was a murder, then a supression of an autopsy, all done by a conspiracy. I think perhaps you thought I was promoting the murder conspiracy idea?

I might be a newbie here but now im confused...it seems most posters here are on the level that the "free masons" are a bunch of nice old chaps haning out and having a few poker nights once in a while. And then the whole "supreme beeing" bit mixed in with that...

I was accually under the influence that this forum discussed subjects that are underneith the surface...i mean the picture painted in this thread is exactly the one known by the society...do that must mean that the posters here (in this thread atleast) is satisfied with that information or have discoverd something that thousands of others are discussing around the globe...maybe the freemasons are completly missjudged and are accually doing nothing else than living in harmony with the world

But then my mind starts asking objective questions...
Why does there then exist tons of utter tons of information about the free masons and there apperantly now miss understood illdoing
How come people have decieded that they are up to something whilst they according to some here are not...

Not beeing a pain in the ass but this thread goes against all that i know about the free masons and simply demolishes 5 years of reaserch and information gathering that ive done

Please help me understand better

Originally posted by Mojo
I might be a newbie here but now im confused...it seems most posters here are on the level that the "free masons" are a bunch of nice old chaps haning out and having a few poker nights once in a while. And then the whole "supreme beeing" bit mixed in with that...

I was accually under the influence that this forum discussed subjects that are underneith the surface...i mean the picture painted in this thread is exactly the one known by the society...do that must mean that the posters here (in this thread at least) is satisfied with that information or have discoverd something that thousands of others are discussing around the globe...maybe the freemasons are completly missjudged and are accually doing nothing else than living in harmony with the world.

That's kind of what we are saying here. As for "below the surface", what masons are doing here is dispelling the ignorance of those that speak against it, by showing that they are ignorant, and by dispelling that ignorance. Now, if some, like necros, want to hang onto their ignorance, one must ask WHY?

Read necros' posts over time, and you will see that he has claimed masons tried to force him to join, then drugged him when he refused... then claimed it was rosircrucians that tried to force him to join for three years... and now is on about the masons again. Personally, reading his rants, I am left with the impression that necros is an on again off again inhabitant of the looney bin, and off his meds, but otherwise harmless.

He has no clue about masonry, and knows just enough from reading to sound as if he knows something, when a close examination shows he does not.

And this is pretty standard fare... some come here, flame masonry, then are shown to be incorrect, and they either just slink away, or, like detective perez, admit their error and press on with other issues. Some come here to flame and troll, and despite being spanked with the truth, persist in the error of their ways, like a certain fly.

But its okay. Hundreds of years of history and experience prove that we are exactly what we say we are, and that our detractors are exactly what we say they are... ignorant and hateful. Icke thinks he is god and that lizards rule the earth... so, he's good for a laugh, if nothing else.

But then my mind starts asking objective questions...
Why does there then exist tons of utter tons of information about the free masons and there apperantly now miss understood illdoing

There are not tons and tons... there are endless repetitions of the same lies... completely different from tons and tons of information.

How come people have decieded that they are up to something whilst they according to some here are not...

Oh, that's easy! Ignorance. When folks don't know, they make up or guess. People have always been xenophobic... look at what has been written about blacks, hispanics, indians, japanese, jews, Irish, Catholic... whatever group is in the barrel is always lied about by the hatemongers and the ignorant.

Not beeing a pain in the ass but this thread goes against all that i know about the free masons and simply demolishes 5 years of reaserch and information gathering that ive done

Really? In what way? Since I AM a mason, and have done extensive research and study on the fraternity, our history, our legends, our tradtions, I am very interested in what you have found...

Please help me understand better

Ok, understand what, exactly? There are MANY threads on ATS alone in which we have debunked the lies told about our fraternity, and there are MANY excellent masons here that can answer whatever you ask, within our obligations.

So, ask away.

Originally posted by Mojo
this thread goes against all that i know about the free masons and simply demolishes 5 years of reaserch and information gathering that ive done

Care to elaborate? Present some of that research maybe?