We know that young men who are soldiers are asked to accept the eventuality of their death in war.

The question is whether they are entitled to ask: "Die for what"? and then make up their minds about wether or not they should die for the particular cause.

History is littered with politicians who hide their motive for war. In this war the administration said that the reason for war was (1) weapons of mass destruction and (2) participation by Iraq in terrorism. Neither of those stories seem to have been sustained by the evidence that has emerged.

Can the world afford soliders who ask "why"? Can it afford not to have soliders ask why?

Originally posted by chestyp

Excatly what Bush didn't do

What are you talking about it looks like that's what is going on today.
Did anyone one think that this would be a cake walk?
Resistance was to be expected didn’t anyone not know this?
This place is crawling with radical Moslem’s and on top of that military equipment such as RPG’s and other weapons appear to be very easily accessible.

Don't forget a lot of these people we're demonizing are people who lived under the oppressive rule of Sadam and than had friends and family and children murdered by the US. That's enough to drive anyone to pick up a RPG and start shooting at troops from any country. If a bomb dropped through the roof of your house and killed your whole family wouldn't you be out fighting. It's what we did for 9/11, but Sadam had nothing to do with 9/11 and we did worse to the people of Iraq than the terrorists did to us. They are just people who had very little and the US took that very little away from them, don't lump them all as some sort of radical demon terrorists because they are people too. I'm not saying you have to agree with their side of events but you do have to look at them.

Originally posted by G_Scard
We know that young men who are soldiers are asked to accept the eventuality of their death in war.

The question is whether they are entitled to ask: "Die for what"? and then make up their minds about wether or not they should die for the particular cause.
...
Can the world afford soliders who ask "why"? Can it afford not to have soliders ask why?

It is not the soldiers' place to ask or think -- it is their responsibility to DO. If the corps thinks they are smart enough to make decisions then they can attend OCS. Otherwise,

Shut your mouth,
Strap on your boots,
Kiss your children,
and do your duty as a man!

If you live, great, you can try to adjust foreign policy after you get out by running for office. If you die, then boo hoo, you won't be the first.

AWOL soldiers are the worst of the worst of the worst of the damn worst. Lazy ass hippies! I can't believe the army isn't filing full charges against these useless bastards... So sad - such a breakdown in discipline, it's ridiculous.

Zip

[edit on 24-10-2004 by Zipdot]

Originally posted by Zipdot
It is not the soldiers' place to ask or think -- it is their responsibility to DO. If the corps thinks they are smart enough to make decisions then they can attent OCS. Otherwise,

Shut your mouth,
Strap on your boots,
Kiss your children,
and do your duty as a man!

If you live, great, you can try to adjust foreign policy after you get out by running for office. If you die, then boo hoo, you won't be the first.

AWOL soldiers are the worst of the worst of the worst of the damn worst. Lazy ass hippies! I can't believe the army isn't filing full charges against these useless bastards... So sad - such a breakdown in discipline, it's ridiculous.

Zip

And than when there are bodies of dead jewish women and children all around and you discover that you aided in one of the biggest mass murders in recent history and you have become a monster because you were just "doing your duty as a man" you might realize asking questions and going AWOL might not have been such a bad idea. Oh wait... wrong war sorry.

Why are we being attacked with RPGs etc? Let's see... last estimated amount of civilian deaths in Iraq: 10,000-15,000

Bush is a bumbling warmonger. If Bush is reelected we will be in Syria by December or January. These people that are refusing to serve are just the first of many. Bush's plan is spreading through the ranks. I know quite a few people in the military and they don't trust superiority anymore. Iraq is not a just war. It is a war for oil and world domination. More will realize this in 2005.

Originally posted by GTWill
Bush is a bumbling warmonger. If Bush is reelected we will be in Syria by December or January. These people that are refusing to serve are just the first of many. Bush's plan is spreading through the ranks. I know quite a few people in the military and they don't trust superiority anymore. Iraq is not a just war. It is a war for oil and world domination. More will realize this in 2005.

That's not the point. We accept our leadership with a social contract. If we disagree with them, we can vote them out or run for office ourselves. If someone is in power that we disagree with, that's too bad, they are still our leaders.

People act like a war over oil is some kind of bad thing... Well, guys, reality check here, we need oil. If you disagree with the war for oil thing, then stop using electricity and stop driving your car. Don't disagree half-assed, go the whole nine yards or shut up and fall in line. We are killing for oil, get over it, it's no big deal.

If the USA fights wars for world domination, we've gotta go with it. Suit up. If you don't like it, tough. You had your chance to change leadership. WE HAVE GOT TO FOLLOW OUR LEADERS. No law says you have to like them. Other countries have laws that say you have to like your leaders there. Thank about that, since you like thinking so much.

World Domination 2005 yay!

Zip

Originally posted by ZipdotPeople act like a war over oil is some kind of bad thing... Well, guys, reality check here, we need oil. If you disagree with the war for oil thing, then stop using electricity and stop driving your car. Don't disagree half-assed, go the whole nine yards or shut up and fall in line. We are killing for oil, get over it, it's no big deal.

Zip

You know, you might have a point there. Maybe we should all take your example to heart. For instance if I needed a car and I see your mom and dad and little baby sister in a nice brand spanken new SUV I should drag them out of it, murder them and take the car. Than I should tell you to get over it, I needed a car. LOL I don't know if you just have lost common sense or if you are purposefully trolling people here but you should revaluate your position on this issue. Maybe it's just to far away for you to see the reality of the situation you described.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Originally posted by deeprivergal
Tell me again there is no draft

Ok, in case you do not understand the military, this is no draft, and as of yet, there is no draft.
That might change once Kerry is in office, though.

You think having kerry as pres will make a diff whether there's a draft or not?
If there are plans to bring the draft back it will happen regardless of who's in office.

Originally posted by Zipdot
People act like a war over oil is some kind of bad thing... Well, guys, reality check here, we need oil. If you disagree with the war for oil thing, then stop using electricity and stop driving your car. Don't disagree half-assed, go the whole nine yards or shut up and fall in line. We are killing for oil, get over it, it's no big deal.

How about instead of killing for oil we take some of the billions this war is costing and we put it to developing alternative power, so we don't have to rely on oil.
But of course oil is more profitable than solar power




Edit: And what happened to my avatar...lol

[edit on 24/10/2004 by ANOK]

Originally posted by deeprivergal
Tell me again there is no draft

Ok. There is no draft. Really, there isn't. Who's been drafted? Nobody.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

Originally posted by ZipdotPeople act like a war over oil is some kind of bad thing... Well, guys, reality check here, we need oil. If you disagree with the war for oil thing, then stop using electricity and stop driving your car. Don't disagree half-assed, go the whole nine yards or shut up and fall in line. We are killing for oil, get over it, it's no big deal.

Zip

You know, you might have a point there. Maybe we should all take your example to heart. For instance if I needed a car and I see your mom and dad and little baby sister in a nice brand spanken new SUV I should drag them out of it, murder them and take the car. Than I should tell you to get over it, I needed a car. LOL I don't know if you just have lost common sense or if you are purposefully trolling people here but you should revaluate your position on this issue. Maybe it's just to far away for you to see the reality of the situation you described.

Crusades, Jihad, Conquistadors, wars to stop the spread of communism... Man has been dukin' it out for awhile now for little to no reason. Oil, religion, political ideologies, whatever. I'm not trying to troll, but I am totally fed up with the complaining going on here.

We have free speech and what do we do? Bitch and moan and nothing more. I want to know what people are going to do about their ATS complaints. I know most people here will do nothing. Many will vote - that's great. Is anyone going to run through the Capitol building naked? Is anyone going to go to jail? Is anyone going to run for government? Is anyone going to join the army? Become a police officer? Build a church? Move to Australia? Join the Peace Corps? Write their congressman? Start a company? Send provisions to the troops? Anything creative?

Zip

If this is a war for oil, then why do we as the leader of the free world have to take over a country in order to get it? Iraq is a losing battle. Bush thought we could just go in, remove Saddam, and the population would just let us take over and take their oil. The Iraqi people are fighting tooth and nail against the invaders. How would you like it if China decided to take over our country because they wanted our vast farmland throughout the U.S.?

DC, I may be wrong about that it may not be a law. It may be part of our enlistment contract. I really do not Know. It was what I was told by retired officers I was introduced to prior to my enlistment (Naval Home in Phila. Pa. my mother and grandmother worked there.) AndWhen I was released from active duty.