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Originally posted by iamdavid
reply to post by arpgme
Well, here's the best example I can come up with for now.... I love watching movies about aliens... But afterwards I have trouble sleeping. The thought of them, coming to get ME for experiments freaks me the # out
So why do I watch then, when I know for sure from experience, that afterwards I will regret it? Because I choose to, with my own stupid free willedit on 11-12-2012 by iamdavid because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by ldyserenity
they say Angels have no free will then in the same breath explain Satan's fall? Obviously he had the freewill to fall
Originally posted by winterkill
Free will allows us to choose that which is displeasant such as hard work, to create a long term beneficial outcome. This goes against our reaction which is to revulse from unpleasant things.
Originally posted by BendedBones
Hey! Long time lurker (6 years now? Who knows anymore) but I am granting you! Yes you, the honor of my first post on the board! WOO!
Originally posted by BendedBones
The absence of free will means that all things are determined, or that any action is a consequence of divinity. Being a consequence of divinity there can be absolutely no cause, only effects.
Originally posted by BendedBones
If you look at the major arguments against the ethical view of Divine Command Theory you can see this circular logic at play clearly. But effects, in our reality, don't just happen (because they happen, because they happen, because they happen.) There are distinct causes. For instance, if you take a bucket of water and hold it upside down the water will pour out. This type of thing doesn't just happen, it happens because gravity pulled the water out of the bucket, so to speak.
This might seem determined, but it is not. Its a reaction to an action. If we were determined there would be absolutely no rhyme or reason to universe and things would just happen, because they happen, because they happen, because they happen, because they happen.
Originally posted by BendedBones
I choose to believe I have free will. If a scientist can hook me up to a machine and tell me what I am going to think before I think it, then I will have the proof that I require to accept that belief.
Originally posted by arpgme
For example, if someone punches you, then a will may form to punch back. This is not "free-will" this is just a response to a circumstance (someone punching you).
If you believe in "Peace" and not fighting, then you may walk away, and claim that was "free-will", but it wasn't. Because you understood "Peace" (a circumstance), you decided to not act on the other Will (desire) to punch back, but instead you acted on the will (desire) for peace and walk away.
What do you think about this?
Originally posted by arpgme
For example, if someone punches you, then a will may form to punch back. This is not "free-will" this is just a response to a circumstance (someone punching you).
If you believe in "Peace" and not fighting, then you may walk away, and claim that was "free-will", but it wasn't. Because you understood "Peace" (a circumstance), you decided to not act on the other Will (desire) to punch back, but instead you acted on the will (desire) for peace and walk away.
What do you think about this?
Originally posted by BcnDiamond
Actually, about your last sentence, they can actually prove that and did so.
And btw, how do you make the leap from lack of free will to a divine cause?
Originally posted by arpgme
What would cause the divine to create the universe? That would be another interesting question.
Well, how do we know that logic doesn't exist just because it exist? Maybe logic was predetermined as well as a foundation to the universe.
Also, there doesn't have to be a "divinity" for there to be determinism. Even if the only thing that existed was the big-bang - determinism can still be true.
But there are scientists that do this. Not only do scientists know what a person will do, before they do it, but they know it 6 seconds before. So it is not just 1 second or 2, it is before they even decided. Source 1], [Source 2]edit on 11-12-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
Nicely put, I choose to give you your first star !
Yeah isn't there like ton's of literature on this issue, Kant, Plato, Hegel etc. Best to read up before getting into Philosophical debates.
Oh hell that was merely my reaction to liking your input - oh no we really are all just organic machines running our own enviromentally adjusted operating systems !!edit on 11-12-2012 by Hopeforeveryone because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by BcnDiamond
Perhaps the implications are, but the question at hand is more a scientific than philosophical debate, in my opinion.
Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by BcnDiamond
I believe until we have a full understanding of the human brain and quite a bit more physics it's still a matter of belief really. I'd like to think we have free will but that's a product of my neurons and my world view, also a product of my neurons. Most of our lives we just are mechanically going through the motions but we do, I think, on certain occasions we have a chance to act in ways that would indicate we have choices. Without choices there is no free will or a need for it.edit on 11-12-2012 by Hopeforeveryone because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by jacobe001
I have always wondered about this as well.
If we take say, 10 chemicals and mix them together one buy one until we get a big explosion, the explosion was caused by a set of reactions one buy one until the explosion. took off.
Likewise, all actions, thoughts, social conditioning, genetic makeup etc could lead to a reaction as well.
From an atheistic perspective, how could an atheist argue otherwise since we are not outside of the laws of science but are subject to them just as everything else is.
From a scientific point of view, if we had all the data past and present on an individual, then we should be able to predict what their next move is. Just as we can do for any other physical object in the universe.
Of course, I myself do not believe we are limited to just the physical sciences, as an atheist would and believe we are metaphysical with experiences extending into the "past" "present" and "future"
Physical objects are not outside the laws of science or physics. I'm not sure what you mean by the laws of causation. Events have causes, if that's what you mean.
Are we outside the laws of physics, science, causation?
Originally posted by BendedBones
So the observer and the subject both know the stimulus but both are unaware of the choice until its been made. I think this test proves more (and many more like it, even the one posted in the Dr. Quantum video) are delving into the power of the subconscious. I fully accept that my subconscious knows what I am going to do before I do it, its like knowing you are going to wake from a dream before you actually wake up. We simply can't parse all the data we receive from outward and inward stimuli on a conscious level as quickly as we can subconsciously. These videos (maybe poor choices?) both seem to stretch the actual intents of the experiments and the data gathered from them to fit the agenda.