Clackamas Town center Shooting Portland, happening now., page 13

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reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:15 PM by NarrowGate

reply to post by Druscilla

Another example of dangerous extremity.

Why do you think fully automatic weapons are necessary? Who is going to carry an AK everywhere they go in case something goes down?

A fully automatic glock would have been a disaster in this situation. Teach people to make their shots count from a young age, and deaths will be avoided.

Everyone should be allowed to carry a semi-automatic pistol. I personally would prefer a single-shot rifle to a fully auto if it had to be one or the other.

On the other hand, criminals looking to kill a crowd of people would find full autos very useful.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:18 PM by PlausibleDeniability

Anybody know the identity of the other two victims? I know many people who work in that mall including all the coffee shop girls who work in the food court...hoping everyone is alright. Sucks for the zales guy

And I forgot, the sheriffs department is maybe 10 seconds away and that whole area is always swamped with cops so this guy wouldn't have lasted long. I'm sure he realized it too since you drive by the department to get into the mall.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:20 PM by Hefficide

I rarely watch TV but just clicked mine on, for a minute, to see if CNN was on the case yet. Sure enough, on the Anderson Cooper show, they were discussing it. I watched for a minute to fact check CNN against what we already know here - to try and gauge the media spin direction.

Coopers "expert" chimed in and said a sentence or two which really caught my attention. He compared this to the spat of other spree killings, over the past 3 years, and then used the terms "mentally defective" and "guns they should not have".

First off - "mentally defective" is doublespeak. MENTAL ILLNESS is a diagnoses, requiring the meeting of specific criteria. Mentally defective is an Orwellian generalization that can be applied to anyone who thinks outside of a given parameter - sane or not.

Secondly.... guns they shouldn't have?

Anderson Cooper's "expert" is already showing us the spin.

Be aware.

And Benri... I am so very happy that your wife is safe and at home. My thoughts and prayers are with her. My sympathies for having endured such an unspeakable and horrible event.

~Heff

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:20 PM by Destinyone

reply to post by NarrowGate

This is my exit stage left cue. Why is it, every single shooting story devolves into a shouting match over guns. Anyone remember, that 3 people are dead, as of 3 hours ago. We don't even know for sure how many may be injured....That this will be the memory that many, many people, will carry from now on, of Christmas....

Carry on with your vitriol.....

Des

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:23 PM by Hefficide

reply to post by PlausibleDeniability

While I had the TV on, one of the callers, two female eyewitnesses, said that one of the decedents was a woman in front of a Best Buy cellular phone kiosk.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:23 PM by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by NarrowGate

This is my exit stage left cue. Why is it, every single shooting story devolves into a shouting match over guns. Anyone remember, that 3 people are dead, as of 3 hours ago. We don't even know for sure how many may be injured....That this will be the memory that many, many people, will carry from now on, of Christmas....

Carry on with your vitriol.....

Des

Do you know how many people got shot today in America? I don't remember hearing about any of them... Why are these people special?

It is because this stuff is avoidable to an extent. Not that many people should be getting hit. Is that not blatantly obvious to you?

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:25 PM by SLAYER69

reply to post by benrl

Hope all is well.
I live like 10 minutes away from there.

edit on 11-12-2012 by SLAYER69 because: I can!

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:27 PM by Druscilla

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Druscilla

Another example of dangerous extremity.

Why do you think fully automatic weapons are necessary? Who is going to carry an AK everywhere they go in case something goes down?

A fully automatic glock would have been a disaster in this situation. Teach people to make their shots count from a young age, and deaths will be avoided.

Everyone should be allowed to carry a semi-automatic pistol. I personally would prefer a single-shot rifle to a fully auto if it had to be one or the other.

On the other hand, criminals looking to kill a crowd of people would find full autos very useful.

By no means am I saying that people SHOULD carry automatic weapons.
I am, however, saying that everyone should have the OPTION to purchase, if they so desired.

Purchase. Carry. Option.
Key words.

Private property like malls in this case could have rules like, um, no firearms.
Security would be appropriately kitted to respond to anything from a population that has an option to purchase rotary cannon guns if they wanted and could afford it.
Anyone approaching mall with so much as a super-soaker would be well aware of Private Property + Armed Security + appropriate threat response rules applying to gun toting maniacs.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:29 PM by telemetry

reply to post by SSPI07

Thanks for the confirmation on the parts you heard at least.

I'm sure the good people over at RR will have that feed archived, for future reference.

----------------

Ruh roh.

Scanner said recently that they have a man with a weapon, lower level ramp at Sears. He is saying that he is CCSO but has no ID, etc.

Just got a report over the air of 1 in custody. Could be related, possible 2nd shooter?

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:31 PM by PlausibleDeniability

reply to post by SLAYER69

The great ex-marine Slayer lives in Portland? Did you get lost on the way home man? That place is hippie headquarters...people used to evil eye me when I wore my Army shirt to class at MtHood. Everytime. Idjits...

Run...far away

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:35 PM by SLAYER69

reply to post by PlausibleDeniability

I grew a Goatee as camouflage

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:39 PM by otie1

my sister lives right around the corner from burlingtons which is about 3 blocks away. When shtf this close to home you feel it. i can feel the energy in the air.

Did anyone see the sheriffs statement? he said no shots were fired from police Inside the mall- when a reporter asked if any shots were fired outside he froze up for roughly 10 seconds and couldnt make a statement.

anyways for what kgw and koin news said 3 dead including the suspect and 1 in icu.
we are expecting a news confrence at 8:30.

Being a native oregonian from the Portland area i can tell you ANY gun violence is outlandish. For the most part our state is friendly and happy. The only reason i could fathom is a disgruntled man in a horrible economy going postal.

Prayers go out to everyone-not just those effected. I believe in our rights to bare arms, however i belive we should have stricter weapon laws. I can already invision a world in which malls are like airports with securitiy checkpoints at every corner

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:41 PM by MmmPie

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by PlausibleDeniability

I grew a Goatee as camouflage

BRILLIANT.

Hope you got a nice collection of Northface Fleece and those sandals with the toes built in. I'll send you some tie dye shirts if you need them! There's plenty in stock up here near Olympia, WA.

When you think about Portland (stereotypes) mass shooting is one of the last places on Earth I'd relate to this place. Then again, I've also heard the gang activity is pretty rough at times, at least in certain areas.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:44 PM by Hefficide

reply to post by MmmPie

From what I've seen, spree shootings tend to happen in lower crime areas. This may or may not be of importance, but does seem to be statistically accurate.

My opinion about that would be that lower crime areas are more controlled - thus creating an environment where younger people have less ability to blow off steam in less extreme ways.

This is not something I've researched, however, just "off the cuff" observation.

~Heff

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:48 PM by NarrowGate

reply to post by Druscilla

Ok fine in a perfect world.

What lends more credibility is that you can make your semi-auto automatic it just carries a long sentence with it. In the case of massacre suicides though I guess that is somewhat irrelevant now isn't it.

You have given me something to think about, I commend you for that.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:50 PM by MmmPie

reply to post by Hefficide

Very interesting POV!

I can see how all of that mixed with, these low crime areas being relatively close to areas with spikes in crime rate could be a potentially easy target to act on.

Like that old adage goes..."it's like stealing candy from a baby".

I really think you should spend some time (if you have it) and research a handful of mass shootings and see if there really is a correlation to what you present. Would be interseting to see what kind of data you stumble upon.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:51 PM by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by MmmPie

From what I've seen, spree shootings tend to happen in lower crime areas. This may or may not be of importance, but does seem to be statistically accurate.

My opinion about that would be that lower crime areas are more controlled - thus creating an environment where younger people have less ability to blow off steam in less extreme ways.

This is not something I've researched, however, just "off the cuff" observation.

~Heff

. In high-crime areas a "shooting spree" happens often enough that they do not label it as such. Trust me, you don't even have most shootings making it to the news. Especially with ongoing investigations, or just stuff they don't want you to hear about.

I could provide links to stories about a couple that happened in my area (It is not high crime here, but 10 minutes down the road it is very high crime one of the highest in the country). Roller rinks getting shot up, people standing on the block in groups getting shot at....it goes on and on. More often than not though, you will be looking at 2 suspects and one victim. It is almost always like that from what I read about and hear about.

edit on 11-12-2012 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:54 PM by LadySkadi

reply to post by Hefficide

Just to put this in a bit of perspective, this is not downtown or NW Portland area we are talking about here. This is actually across the county line in Clackamas and it's just off of 82nd avenue which is well known drug/gang and prostitution areas. The mall itself has had longstanding issue with trouble. It's better then it was 10 years ago, but still not great. It's not an "upscale" area, by any stretch.

edit on 11-12-2012 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:56 PM by Snsoc

I bet you still blame religion for so many of the world's ills though,

You would lose that bet.

and I didn't blame anonymous, I said that the shooter was probably inspired by them.

Unfortunately, It's a short leap from one to the other for many people. It could be infered that the existence of Anonymous, and thier actions, contributed to the shooting, by giving the shooter the idea. The next logical step will be, of course, for the authorities to start cracking down hard on Anonymous, and that will be just fine with most of America, because in the lazy minds of most, they will make that connection. How incredibly convienient for TPTB that this happened.

I wanted to pre-emptively attack the Anonymous=anarchist argument before it started, and I apologize if I mischarachterized your intent.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:57 PM by gnosticagnostic

reply to post by NarrowGate

My dear Narrow,

I do believe that dear des was simply stating that your taking over the thread and turning it into a rant about gun control... That isn't what the OP was about.. perhaps if you make a new thread about gun control in revelation of today's events... that way people can join you in the discussion at the appropriate thread...

Cheerios! Hope your well!

gnostic.