US government threatening the DPRK over a simple rocket

I thought this would be the best place to post this seeing as this is the political madness forum of ATS.

It seems that once again the US is having a fit over a DPRK rocket launch. While I am not surprised by this behavior, it has gotten to the point of being rather silly.

The leadership of the DPRK are not stupid, socialist yes, but not stupid. Any actual missile launch against another nation would be suicide for the DPRK. While they are fully able to defend themselves, they cannot fight off the overwhelming might of the US military; and they know it. So, to assume that the DPRK would launch a missile is just plain silly and an excuse to beat on the war drums.

The DPRK is launching a rocket, not a missile and not a war head. The small socialist nation has been trying to improve their communication technology for a long time. They need to develop a way to get communication satellites into space and the only way to do that is by way of rocket research.

So why is the US, and Japan for that matter, getting all up and arms over this?

It seems clear to me that since the DPRK is not under the control of the US empire, The United States will look for any reason to point at DPRK and say `Look! Look! The `rogue` nation is developing weapons to destroy the world! Attack them! Attack the evil commies!` America feels it must control the entire world and they have a hard time accepting that some nations will simply not give in to the American empire.

So, this new action by America to position war ship near the DPRK and `watch` the rocket launch is just another attempt to look for any reason to push for war against the DPRK. Any mishap is and America is going to scream bloody murder for war.

reply to post by freedomwv


You should google how much food aide the US has given North Korea over the years.

They want their cake and eat it too.

reply to post by freedomwv

A missile is a rocket. A rocket which is capable of putting a satellite in orbit is capable of delivering a nuclear device. It is not suspected that this launch will be carrying a nuclear device but the development of the delivery capability is of great interest and not only to the US.

A mishap will not result in a call to go to war.

reply to post by Phage


The DPRK will not attack anyone with a nuclear war head; EVER! It is all just the law of opposites in full effect. America threatens the DPRK with nuclear weapons so the DPRK does the same thing back to America. North Korea is not a nation which takes kindly to US bulling. They will stand up to it and have proven they will do so many times in the past. Yet, this rocket is not for making war. They are very open about their rocket program and have even allowed the UN to enter their nation and see everything they are doing; as far as their rocket program is concerned.

reply to post by freedomwv


Why, you're right. The peace loving people of North Korea and their wise, loving Leader would never in their right minds even think to engage in anything offensive in nature.

reply to post by freedomwv

America threatens the DPRK with nuclear weapons so the DPRK does the same thing back to America.

When has the US threatened North Korea with nuclear weapons?

North Korea is not a nation which takes kindly to US bulling.

North Korea is not a nation which takes kindly to sanity. The US is not really alone in their concern about North Korea attaining full nuclear capability.

They are very open about their rocket program and have even allowed the UN to enter their nation and see everything they are doing; as far as their rocket program is concerned.

Really?

Originally posted by freedomwv
reply to post by Phage

 

The DPRK will not attack anyone with a nuclear war head; EVER!

so why do they keep threatening to??

All these ongoing threats do get a bit much after a while and just results in diminished integrity. NK has been doing rocket or missile testing for a while despite all the regional and international concern. It is when the testing stops and the invasions start it is time to worry. The wall between North and South will fall one day, as for when and how I would rather focus on the reunification efforts going on than a scorched earth. Considering the better international relations that nuclear proliferation has brought by placing everyone on the line it is one component of this very messy and sad situation.

Originally posted by kwakakev
Considering the better international relations the nuclear proliferation has brought by placing everyone on the line .....

what "better international relations" are those????

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Life is still ticking on despite all the cold war tensions. There are still some border skirmishes going on, but the members of the UN security council can all sit down at the same table and not kill each other.

reply to post by kwakakev


how many "bush wars" have happened in the nuclear age?

Consider 4 wars Iraq has had in the last 20-30 years, israelis and Palestinians throwing HE at each other, the mess in Africa, death squads in Latin america, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, slaughter in Indonesia and Rwanda, Biafra and Tieneman Square. The wars in the Caucasus, syria right now.

Heck the Korean war itself!!

How good have things been, really?

The DPRK has had thousands of US troops right on their border for decades, had to deal with very harsh trade restrictions, been threatened by pretty much every 1st world nation on earth and deal with the daily pain of having the entire Korean culture and people split in half and cut off from each other. And one wonders why they are so hostile? The answer should be pretty clear. They deal with a situation of constant tension and threat of war daily. I am not surprised the government of the DPRK are a little high strung and on edge. I would be too if I had to govern a nation under such conditions.

Yet, the DPRK still attempts to build and maintain a decent society. They want to improve their communication technology and despite how very open they have been about it, the 1st world powers still threaten then and behave as if the DPRK is about the start WW3 over a simple peaceful rocket launch. Many nations do the exact same thing the DPRK is about to do in a few days. So, it is okay when nations, who are lapdogs for the US, have a rocket launch but not okay when the DPRK does the exact same thing? What odd logic indeed!

`It is okay as long as we are doing it` kind of attitude is very arrogant and displays such a hatred for any nation which is not under the boot of America that logic would lead the DPRK to go ahead and do what ever it wants because America and the 1st world will hate them no matter what they do.

Originally posted by freedomwv
reply to post by Phage

 

The DPRK will not attack anyone with a nuclear war head; EVER! It is all just the law of opposites in full effect. America threatens the DPRK with nuclear weapons so the DPRK does the same thing back to America. North Korea is not a nation which takes kindly to US bulling. They will stand up to it and have proven they will do so many times in the past. Yet, this rocket is not for making war. They are very open about their rocket program and have even allowed the UN to enter their nation and see everything they are doing; as far as their rocket program is concerned.

You really need to read more on the DPRK as you have some very polarized and misinformed opinions.

Read up on the U.S.serviceman who was hacked to death with an ax by Nork border guards for cutting a tree down on the ROK side of the DMZ.

Have fun telling the families of the dead sailors from the ROKS Cheonan or the civilian inhabitants of Yeonpyeong Island that the DPRK would never act in aggression..

ATS's own James Oberg was one of the press invited to attend the last launch.

Why don't you ask him how "open" the DPRK were in regards to their "space" program? (hint: The reporters were locked in their hotel when the actual launch took place and when it had obviously failed all of the assigned handlers answered "what rocket?")

Originally posted by freedomwv
The DPRK has had thousands of US troops right on their border for decades,

There are now less than 25000 US troops in Korea - the North Korean army amounts to 1.1 million men on active service and another 8.6 million in reserve - teh South Koreans have 650,000 in service and anotehr 4.5 million reserves.

had to deal with very harsh trade restrictions,

that's what happens when you refuse to conclusde a peace treaty - WTF should anyone trade with a nation that deliberately maintans a state of war in the first place??

been threatened by pretty much every 1st world nation on earth [/quoet]

arrant nonsense. It hasn't actually been threatened by anyone since it was formed. It's war of agression agaisnt the south is the cause of all it's problems now - that and it's leaders' wanting to plunder the country so they can enjoy whiskey and movies!

[quoet]and deal with the daily pain of having the entire Korean culture and people split in half and cut off from each other.

Since it is the north that maintains the state of war and closed borders that can hardly be laid at the feet of anyone except its ruling dynasty!

And one wonders why they are so hostile? The answer should be pretty clear.

Indeed - they could choose peace at any time - but they refuse to do so, instead using the artificially prolonged state of war with the south to repress their own people for the benefit of the ruling elite.

conspiracy theorists on here often rail against the western "elite" - but north korea shows how the system can truly screw over the population.

the "dear leader" squirreled bilions of $$'s away in foreign bank avccounts in case he ever got tossed, and his son, the new "Supreme Leader" continues to kill ayone who dares have an opinion of his own, and enjoyshorse riding and jet skis.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by kwakakev

 

how many "bush wars" have happened in the nuclear age?

Consider 4 wars Iraq has had in the last 20-30 years, israelis and Palestinians throwing HE at each other, the mess in Africa, death squads in Latin america, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, slaughter in Indonesia and Rwanda, Biafra and Tieneman Square. The wars in the Caucasus, syria right now.

Heck the Korean war itself!!

How good have things been, really?

When was the last total war between major powers?

You have to look an awfully long way back into history to find another time where 70 years have passed without a direct confrontation between major powers.

IMHO, the nuclear age has served a role in facilitating the "relative" peace much of the world enjoys today.

reply to post by freedomwv


I have no love for the US government but your post is extremely disingenuous as it imparts a pose of naivete about know facts to make a point about the evilness of the US goverment...

North Korea is a satellite state of China that is still at war with the US and South Korea. It has actively acted aggressively against Japan (spying, sabotage and kidnapings).

North Korea is also a backwater nation (in comparison with most western standards) ruled by a "stalinistic" monarchy (I think that it best fits the real facts) the only real asset it has is manpower and weaponry including being a nuclear nation.

The North Korea situation is artificially maintained as it serves the purposes of both the US and China to the detriment of everyone else in the region and the population of the Korean peninsula.

Think about what the US and China gains by perpetuating the situation and how it could be easily resolved, by an unilateral agreement between the US and China to do so.

Originally posted by freedomwv
The DPRK has had thousands of US troops right on their border for decades, had to deal with very harsh trade restrictions, been threatened by pretty much every 1st world nation on earth and deal with the daily pain of having the entire Korean culture and people split in half and cut off from each other. And one wonders why they are so hostile? The answer should be pretty clear. They deal with a situation of constant tension and threat of war daily. I am not surprised the government of the DPRK are a little high strung and on edge. I would be too if I had to govern a nation under such conditions.

Yet, the DPRK still attempts to build and maintain a decent society. They want to improve their communication technology and despite how very open they have been about it, the 1st world powers still threaten then and behave as if the DPRK is about the start WW3 over a simple peaceful rocket launch. Many nations do the exact same thing the DPRK is about to do in a few days. So, it is okay when nations, who are lapdogs for the US, have a rocket launch but not okay when the DPRK does the exact same thing? What odd logic indeed!

`It is okay as long as we are doing it` kind of attitude is very arrogant and displays such a hatred for any nation which is not under the boot of America that logic would lead the DPRK to go ahead and do what ever it wants because America and the 1st world will hate them no matter what they do.

They, their gov't [leaders]. have done so of their own volition and by their own accord.

the 1st world nations you speak of have been more than tolerant and acceptant of such, to the point of having damn near fed their populace for the past few decades. Without the foreign aide and food 'deals' the US and others have given them over the years, the DRPK wouldn't likely even have the few number of lighted regions or bulbs they currently have in the night time satellite imagery clearly obvious and available for all to see as they deem fit or see necessary.

To say that they've been upfront, open and 'honest' with regards their technological ambitions and desires over the years would seem Quite disingenuous, to say the least. And anyone who would openly assert or claim the same would have near had to have been sleeping with their head in the dirt all the while. :shk:

That the DRPK == Open, honest. upfront and forthright == false representation to the utmost extreme. F.O.S. to be intellectually honest, IMO

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by kwakakev

 

Heck the Korean war itself!!

How good have things been, really?

When was the last total war between major powers?

You have to look an awfully long way back into history to find another time where 70 years have passed without a direct confrontation between major powers.

If that is your major definition of "improved relations" then sure. But it is a very narrow definition that ignores much that has gone on!

IMHO, the nuclear age has served a role in facilitating the "relative" peace much of the world enjoys today.

did you not notice the list I included??

aside from "world wars" there has NOT been peace in many places around the world at all - that is MY point - that for many ordinary peopel the failure of hte nuclear powers to destroy the world does not mean peace!!

Here's the list again:

Consider 4 wars Iraq has had in the last 20-30 years, israelis and Palestinians throwing HE at each other, the mess in Africa, death squads in Latin america, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, slaughter in Indonesia and Rwanda, Biafra and Tieneman Square. The wars in the Caucasus, syria right now.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

... How good have things been, really?

While it is hard to get the actual death toll, we are looking at maybe 15 million as a rough estimate in a global population of 8 Billion, or about 0.2% human fatalities due to war. If you can improve on these calculations great but it is no where in the league of what would happen if America, Russia, Europe, China, India and the other nuclear holders decided to fight it out. Then we would be lucky to have a 0.2% survival rate.

I agree war sucks, but it has been part of this world since bacteria first developed. There are aspects of competition vital to the strength, improvement and growing capability of evolution. I know things are still a complex mess in many parts of the world and nuclear capability has not ended all war, but the gene is out of the bottle and it is helping limit some escalations of conflict.

reply to post by freedomwv


Its no rocket, It is their 3 stage ICBM that they have been trying to perfect for years. They claim it is putting a satellite up for science but everyone knows that is utter BS. Its the same No Dong whatever missile they use for military strikes. The reason why the U.S. is threatening them is because it flew over southern Japan, since we are directly and legally bound to defend Japan then we have to try and shut lil Kim jr. up or spank him for being bad.