A logical problem witih "Hell"

page: 1
8
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:40 PM
link   
Hell is described by most "religionists" as a place of eternal torment and torture... A place you will go after you die if you don't accept what these people believe and convert immediately...

Of course this ridiculous idea is nothing more then a fear tactic used to scare people into conversion... but there is a logical problem with the idea of Hell...

IF one is sent to "Hell" for said "eternal torture and torment"... That person would have to be alive to experience said firey torment...

Pain is purely phyiscal... it is experienced when the physical body goes through a trama of some sort

In order to experience pain, said person needs a few things...

1. A brain...

2. A spinal cord...

3. Nerve endings

Without which pain can not be experienced...

When one passes beyond this life... the body remains in the physical world and left to decay and return to the dust from which we're made...

Thus the concept of Hell being a place of pain and anguish is nothing more then a fear tactic used for conversion as i've stated previously... designed specifically to pray on the natural instinct of all creatures to fear pain...

IF you slap a dog he will naturally grow to fear you... because it is ingrained into all life that experiences pain to fear it...

Churches and religious denominations throughout history have prayed on peoples fears... Fear of loosing your soul, fear of eternal torture if you don't follow what they tell you to believe.

But i tell you... Fear not my friends... There is no pain beyond this life...

The physical world is only a stepping stone...





posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:47 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


You can slap a dog to teach it fear, but don't turn your back on that dog or it will return the favor as according to the nature of all animals.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:48 PM
link   
How do you know that there is no pain beyond this physical world? Have you been there or know of someone who has? If you are of the belief that there is an afterlife, then one could assume based on your logic that there is no sensory perception at all. Hence one can not experience the pleasures of paradise as well as the torment of hell.

Or is it possible that we just do not like to think that we can be eternally punished for rejecting God? And at the same time we can experience eternal pleasure for accepting that same God?



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:58 PM
link   
My problem with Hell is if I goto heaven but my son is bad and goes to hell, it wouldn't be heaven for me would it? because my son is not there.
It is just a story to keep children from being bad (and adults).
But hey that doesn't even work lol.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 03:59 PM
link   
I always considered hellish torture to be existing without God, actually
Though that doesn't really account for the whole 'lake of fire' thing.
On another note, I'm wondering what this life is a stepping stone towards if we can't experience anything in the next one. Since, you know, if we can't experience the eternal torture of hell, why would we be able to experience anything good? :/

(I am kind of playing the devil's advocate here, I guess you could say. As I don't believe in Hell or Heaven.)
edit on 11-12-2012 by missflowers because: reasons



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:01 PM
link   
reply to post by micmerci
 



Have you been there or know of someone who has?


As a matter of fact i do...

YOU have been there... and so have i...


If you are of the belief that there is an afterlife, then one could assume based on your logic that there is no sensory perception at all. Hence one can not experience the pleasures of paradise as well as the torment of hell.


The torment of hell is religious Dogma... Fear based conversion tactic and nothing more...

A loving Father would not condem his child to torture...


Or is it possible that we just do not like to think that we can be eternally punished for rejecting God? And at the same time we can experience eternal pleasure for accepting that same God?


Again.... This is Christian Dogma...

Taught to the followers of that religion at an early age... so they fear said torment all their life

HELL does not exist... aside from the one you make yourself in this life...




posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:01 PM
link   
reply to post by boymonkey74
 


Not trying to push any belief system on you- just want to inform- the scriptures say that there is no rememberance of those who did not make it in.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:05 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


"HELL does not exist" is a very definitive statement. Can you provide a source of proof for this conclusion? The doctrine of heaven comes from the same source as the doctrine of hell as far as I remember



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by missflowers
I always considered hellish torture to be existing without God, actually
Though that doesn't really account for the whole 'lake of fire' thing.
On another note, I'm wondering what this life is a stepping stone towards if we can't experience anything in the next one. Since, you know, if we can't experience the eternal torture of hell, why would we be able to experience anything good? :/

(I am kind of playing the devil's advocate here, I guess you could say. As I don't believe in Hell or Heaven.)
edit on 11-12-2012 by missflowers because: reasons



Welcome to ATS my friend...

After we pass we return to what was before... I consider death to be the return to reality... and life as a learning process...

Think of when you're sleeping... you experience wonderful things... sometimes horrifying things... but pain is not something that is experienced within the dream...

Pain can not be experienced without the physical body...




posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:08 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


Originally posted by Akragon

But i tell you... Fear not my friends... There is no pain beyond this life...
My personal opinion is that there is absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond this life. Birth. Life. Death. The End. All that remains of you is other peoples memories of you.


But for the sake of discussion, let's pretend for a moment that there is something more....

Emotional pain hurts much more than physical pain. It is a different type of pain, that runs much deeper.

If there actually is a Hell, maybe it is only visions. Repetitious visions of pain being inflicted upon those whom you love more than yourself. That would definitely be tormenting.





Originally posted by Akragon

The physical world is only a stepping stone...
Too bad that it is the only one.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:12 PM
link   
reply to post by micmerci
 


So that makes it heaven does it?
So God would wipe my memory and wipe all knowledge of my son? Pfft.
No thanks lucky I have my own god who would never be as evil as that.
edit on 11-12-2012 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Akragon
 


"HELL does not exist" is a very definitive statement. Can you provide a source of proof for this conclusion? The doctrine of heaven comes from the same source as the doctrine of hell as far as I remember


Hell is a loose translation of the word Gehenna.... which was a physical place outside the walls of Jerusalam... A litteral garbage dump where bodies of people who could not afford a proper burial were thrown... They used sulfer (brimstone) to destroy the material in the area which burned continuiously day and night... which is where they got the idea of "Hell" being a place of eternal torture and firey torment.

Jesus used the word several times.... but he meant the body, not the spirit...




posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:15 PM
link   
reply to post by boymonkey74
 


I'm just stating what scripture says. Don't shoot the messenger.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by BrokenCircles
reply to post by Akragon
 


Originally posted by Akragon

But i tell you... Fear not my friends... There is no pain beyond this life...
My personal opinion is that there is absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond this life. Birth. Life. Death. The End. All that remains of you is other peoples memories of you.


But for the sake of discussion, let's pretend for a moment that there is something more....

Emotional pain hurts much more than physical pain. It is a different type of pain, that runs much deeper.

If there actually is a Hell, maybe it is only visions. Repetitious visions of pain being inflicted upon those whom you love more than yourself. That would definitely be tormenting.





Originally posted by Akragon

The physical world is only a stepping stone...
Too bad that it is the only one.




You are free to have your own beliefs... but when you pass your beliefs won't matter in the least... You will be presented with reality as it exists... and you will not be able to deny it.

One thing i will say though... Beliefs do tend to create your own reality... IF you believe there is nothing beyond the physical world... its quite possible it will become your truth... Thus you render your spirit non-existant when it already exists...

When you're presented with life continuing after death.... Will you say... "NO im dead?"




posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:23 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


Gehenna was just one of the words that scripture used to reference hell (Greek). There is also Hades, Sheol< and Lake of Fire. What is being described in all these references if Hell does not exist?



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Akragon
 


Gehenna was just one of the words that scripture used to reference hell (Greek). There is also Hades, Sheol< and Lake of Fire. What is being described in all these references if Hell does not exist?


I realize this...

And you forgot Tartarus... but again these are just fear tactics.

Like i've said, a loving Father would not condem his children to these places... And you'll notice the other words used here are not "eternal"... they are temporary... and more then likely references to physical places on earth used as creative imagery to cause fear




posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 05:06 PM
link   
reply to post by BrokenCircles
 



Emotional pain hurts much more than physical pain. It is a different type of pain, that runs much deeper.


Im glad someone brought this up...

Emotional pain can be seen as "proof" of the existance of the spirit within... and that we are all "connected"...

One will experience a "feeling" or a vibe from a person from across a room...

A Dog knows his master is comming home... sometimes even before the master knows...




IF emotional pain is far worse then physical pain as you said, hell isn't even necessary if we will have time to reflect on our actions in this life when we pass...




posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 05:27 PM
link   
Something that is purely good cannot cause pain, for that would cause pain to itself. In other words, if "God" is wholly good and pure and loving, then by casting even a single one of his creations into hell, he has damned himself as well, because he will always know the unending agony, remorse, and desperation of that creation, and he will live forever with the knowledge that it all could have been so easily avoided.

That's why I don't believe in a higher power that judges. If it judges anything that it creates, then it is no better than us humans. Since a creation is a piece of yourself, since it mirrors some small fragment of who you are, then anything you create that is flawed is just as beautiful or worthless as you deem yourself to be. And the more flawed, the more work you have ahead of you.

Honestly, what brings more joy than watching the perfection emerge from your creations, slowly, step by step, its inner beauty gradually gleaming in the light of your loving touches? If a god feels anything but love for this process, if this god creates an imperfect creation for any purpose other than the joy of sharing, then it is a pathetic god. And if it casts its own mistakes in eternal judgment upon that which is created, the god is a coward and a cheat.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 05:36 PM
link   
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Well said...

God doesn't cause pain... we do...

You get what you give... in this life or the next



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 05:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Akragon
 


"HELL does not exist" is a very definitive statement. Can you provide a source of proof for this conclusion? The doctrine of heaven comes from the same source as the doctrine of hell as far as I remember


Hell is a loose translation of the word Gehenna.... which was a physical place outside the walls of Jerusalam... A litteral garbage dump where bodies of people who could not afford a proper burial were thrown... They used sulfer (brimstone) to destroy the material in the area which burned continuiously day and night... which is where they got the idea of "Hell" being a place of eternal torture and firey torment.


Ever read this? The Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man:


“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’” (Luke 16:19-31 NIV)


So you're saying that Jesus was confused about the whole "garbage dump" bit, as well?





top topics
 
8
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join