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Obamacare fee to offset costs of pre-existing conditions

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posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:11 PM
reply to post by woodsmom

The point is, everyone in america gets healthcare.....

If you have something to lose (house, paycheck, property...) then you have to pay for it.

This gov't is communist, it will not be happy until everybody has nothing to lose.

If Obamacare is so great, why did Pelosi, Ried, Obama and the rest of them exclude themselves from it?

"Affordable health insurance" -- $600.00 a month for health insurance is only affordable if you make more than 200,000 a year - depending where in the country it is that you reside.

"Affordable health insurance" - is about $20.00 a month for most people making under $60,000.00 a year with a family - a small family at that.
edit on 11-12-2012 by Happy1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 12:10 AM
reply to post by DarthMuerte

What happens when 100% of all Americans begin to be covered by health insurance? The answer is extremely large corporate insurance profits. Even if they have to start covering pre-existing conditions in the long run if they aren't greedy there will be overall health savings for all of us. The question is will the insurance companies pass on their new found wealth to the consumers?

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 01:20 AM
wtf is this BS. 65bucs!, it cost me 80 just to fill me freakin tank to get to work and now i get to throw more on to the pile. wheres all the money go to help people not freakin work for years at a time, use that damn money. im so damn sick of taxes. thats really what it is a 65 dollar tax.

"The Obama administration says it is a temporary assessment levied for three years starting in 2014, designed to raise $25 billion. It starts at $63 and then declines."

sure they tell us how much its going to cost and for how long, but do they tell you how low it will get, after three years ill bet its 60 dollars HAHAHAHAHAHAH. then well find its not enough and it will go to 100 a head. if we can just tack on a 65 dollar tax to raise 25 billion, why the hell are we still in debt, hell lets just all give up our paychecks for a year so we can all feel good some scabs feeling good.

or heres a bright idea, have the government regulate the FREAKIN PRICES and then everything will be cheaper for everyone, riiiight? so why the hell havent they done that.? they keep finding ways to take from me/us. F THAT! take from the 400 billion plus a year companies jacking prices up on medication and machines for "certain" countries, yet in another country right next to us that same machine cost 475 thousand dollars less and all the medications seems to be cheaper. so are we really just supplimenting people in this country or tons of people around the world. why doesnt our government regulate healthcare industry and force them to lower prices? why dont we use the taxes to buy the machines through the government and then hand them out to the hospitals? that would lower prices as well. some of these corporations are posting hundreds of millions to billions of dollars. how can they see that we are the ones to foot the bill when companies shouldnt be making more than countries?

there is like 400 other solutions to this, and you know you were just set up when the option lands on you.

taxed to make a product, taxed to keep product on shelf, taxed item for sitting in storage, taxed item for buying it, taxed item for reselling, how many f ing times can you tax one product? we pay all kinds of money for social services and now i have to pay more right out of pocket. WHEN DID I BECOME A PRODUCT?

so wtf are we, socialist, communism, facist, marxist? wtf is this country?

ps full of spelling errors i know ^^ at work and not in the mood lol to proof ^^
edit on 12-12-2012 by ~widowmaker~ because: ferrets made me

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 01:46 AM
$63 is better than mortgaging your house, selling your car, hitting your family for cash, forcing them to sell their home and their car so they don't have to bury you because a corporate death panel figures it's cheaper just to let you die or not cover you at all because you have pre-existing condition called "life".

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 02:51 AM
reply to post by randomname

No its not, not when you can turn it around on the corporations verse sticking to the people. I don't know why everyone buys into this belief like its our responsibility. I mean if we're going live in a fascist country where they can have lobbyist sway politicians to make new laws or give tax breaks. Mine as well take it to the next step and start making them pay for our healthcare so we can WORK in their business. Unhealthy population can't work to full potential right? Why can't people adopt that attitude, this feeling like we owe a corporation for hiring us. Its the other way around people. With out people a business is what? NOTHING. Stop getting brainwashed, make the hundred million-billion dollar companies pay for more crap, its their trucks ruining roads, its their planes ruining the sky, its their jobs lowering your health. wtf is wrong with people when they feel "we" need to foot the bill while there are corporations making hundreds of millions to billion on inflated prices to begin with.

Either that make the government freakin regulate it. Or make new laws that after xyz years medical equipment and medication are forced to take 50% cut. Bam instant savings. Or make a law that says they can't charge more than there lowest country they are selling to. theres two ideas that dont take directly out of each others pockets, were they even brought up, doubtfull.

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 04:01 AM
reply to post by rgzing

I'm so glad that you mentioned this. I have tried to get coverage for a pre-existing condition, too. My very lowest monthly payment option available, from any of the companies in my state, was quoted to me as starting at just over $1000 per month, but I was also told to expect, and budget for, it to go up regularly. That was the most no-frills, highest deductible option cost.

I have also been told by a few of the places that until it is absolutely required by law that the company must accept pre-existing conditions, they won't be.

To add insult to injury, the pre-existing condition that I have that has kept me from being able to get coverage is that I was raped when I was a teen.

Take care,

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:33 AM

Originally posted by woodsmom
reply to post by spoogemonkey

Maybe we should all quit and jump on the system, then who would pay for it?
The Cloward Piven strategy. That is how the liberals got us here. So yes, either "Go Galt" and refuse to participate at all anymore; or milk the system for all you can get to hasten the collapse.

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:37 AM

Originally posted by MystikMushroom

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy
So I throw in $63 whole bucks a year and that's my part of helping to ensure that people with preexisting conditions are not refused by insurance? Sounds like a bargain to me. God forbid, I guess we just stay home one Saturday night a year and it's covered. Oh the burden!

I'm with you on that! $63 to make sure that someone that gets a job and insurance can now get the treatment they need...? Sounds like a deal to me.

Unlike many people it seems -- I have a heart.
LOL. It isn't JUST $63. It is $63 per person. For a family of for that is over $250. That is a lot of money to someone trying to make it on two minimum wage jobs. So then, with your "BIG HEART", how many families will you pony up for?

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:29 AM
reply to post by marg6043

and who played a part in creating the system in mass???
oh ya, that other alternative, romney!!

most individuals couldn't afford the healthcare cost of a major illness.
most businesses were having trouble providing insurance for their employees before obamacare.
and well our fine politicians have created such a lovely mess...they can't afford crap, although they are still managing to spend like drunken sailors..

it's time to put the terms "liberals" and "conservatives" away!! they are not the us vs. . them!! it's more like there is a bunch of people who really can't afford much of anything, with the numbers growing daily, and a small number of those who have so much money, they don't even glance at the price tag of things, think that we all have money trees growing outside our back doors, and if our getting more pethethic by the day wages don't pay for what we need to live, well, we can just venture out back and pluck a few grand off the tree!! okay, maybe they know that isn't true, but then, they don't care that their isn't enough money, and expect us to just go without other necessities to pay for useless insurance policies (let's face it, they are useless if you can't pay for the deductible, the copays, the medications, ect.), so the doctors don't really spend enough quality time to actually treat you for much of anything, since they know there is a cold chance in hades of getting paid!
maybe they want more people subsidizing their healthcare!!
maybe they were offered a nice sum of cash by the insurance companies in exchange for obamacare.
don't know...but the least thing on their minds was our health and well being...
and I don't think it matters if they fall under the label of conservative or liberal....
it's just us and them, and their alliance with big business and corporations.

romney would not have changed obamacare much....
and I doubt if would have changed the mandate that we all have to be insured.
more than likely the mandate would have stayed, but any hope anyone has of getting any help from the gov't to fulfill that mandate would have been killed dead rather quickly!!

ain't nothing meaningful gonna be accomplished till we accept what is and quit with the lib/con crap and stand up to them united, and just tell them enough of the crap!
heck the money they waste, just one of those secret black ops programs that we are not even allowed to know anything about could go quite a ways to giving each and every person in this country very affordable, not breaking the bank healthcare no matter what their paycheck is!!
tell ya what, they do away with those useless black ops, quite wasting the money, quite giving their buddies neat tax breaks and subsidies, and act like they are broke!! because they are broke and borrowing like crazy!! well, then come talk to me about the small pittance they are wasting on healthcare for the poor and sick, social security for the old and feeble, housing and food for the poor families!

we aren't the problem weather we are libs or cons....they are!!!

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:47 AM
reply to post by clearmind

That is what the "financial cliff " scam is all about, see people are been misguided about what is all that "financial cliff" and congress debates on the economy.

When the supreme court striked down the mandate to be only replaced with taxes, is giving Obamacare the chance to tax Americans, but Americans do not want to be taxed, so propaganda and scaremongering is working like a charm to make the people think that the government is working on solutions, infusing the so "tax the rich" is all a scam.

At the same time people are forgetting that the Fed is also in meetings behind close doors for another increase with a new Q4 because the 40 billions monthly on top of the 70 billions from previews Qs, are not enough.

Government needs money to pursue their Obamacare and to keep Wall street Bankers well funded

The truth behind the "financial cliff" more taxes on top of the ones already been passed under the Obamacare monstrosity, more free reign for insurance to gouge the people for out of cost expenses and hidden fees, the so call pre existing conditions is nothing but another scam to add more fees and there you got it, next year people are going to find out what the "financial Cliff" is all about, as anything that comes out of congress from all this is going to hit our wallets one way or the other.

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:55 AM
reply to post by dawnstar

And that is what people keep forgetting.
And that is why people are been confused into believing that one party is better than the other, they are all nothing but corrupted entities working for the same powers.

Obamacare is nothing but Romney care with the powers to force people to open their wallets to bailout at federal level by law Insurance companies and keep the food supply of big Pharma open.

See is one big problem Bush Jr. bailed out Romney care before it bankrupted the state with tax payers money, still going under Obama, even with the realization of Romney disastrous healthcare dreams in his state Obama allowed the private insurance company to draft the Obamacare to scam for the rest of the nation.

So In my eyes both Obamacare and Romney care are nothing but crap and that crap is going to fall on all of us when the taxes and hidden fees force families to buy insurance before they pay for food

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 08:06 AM

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by marg6043

it's time to put the terms "liberals" and "conservatives" away!! they are not the us vs. . them!!
I wish we could, but the next paragraph shows why we can't.

Originally posted by dawnstarromney would not have changed obamacare much....
and I doubt if would have changed the mandate that we all have to be insured.
more than likely the mandate would have stayed, but any hope anyone has of getting any help from the gov't to fulfill that mandate would have been killed dead rather quickly!!
Do you even understand where this so called "help from the government" really comes from? The fact that you want and expect the "government" to "help you" is why we cannot put our differences behind us.

Originally posted by dawnstarain't nothing meaningful gonna be accomplished till we accept what is and quit with the lib/con crap and stand up to them united, and just tell them enough of the crap!
Until you libs stop demanding my money to get you free stuff, we can never unite.

Originally posted by dawnstarheck the money they waste, just one of those secret black ops programs that we are not even allowed to know anything about could go quite a ways to giving each and every person in this country very affordable, not breaking the bank healthcare no matter what their paycheck is!!
tell ya what, they do away with those useless black ops, quite wasting the money, quite giving their buddies neat tax breaks and subsidies, and act like they are broke!! because they are broke and borrowing like crazy!! well, then come talk to me about the small pittance they are wasting on healthcare for the poor and sick, social security for the old and feeble, housing and food for the poor families!
How about we cut those programs and just stop wasting the money? How about we let the people who work actually keep more of what they earn?

Originally posted by dawnstarwe aren't the problem weather we are libs or cons....they are!!!

Liberals ARE a huge part of the problem. You provide the politicians with their power to dominate us.

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 08:22 AM
The $5.25 per month, (or $63 per year) is the maximum amount that will be charged, and it is scheduled to last for three years, then will be discontinued.

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 08:28 AM

Originally posted by BellaSabre
The $5.25 per month, (or $63 per year) is the maximum amount that will be charged, and it is scheduled to last for three years, then will be discontinued.
When was the last time the government ever discontinued a temporary tax?

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 08:52 AM
reply to post by DarthMuerte

yes, I understand where this "help" comes from!! What do you think would be worse?? Taking money from person A, who has a well paying steady job with great pay, drives a rolls royce, and owns two house with the intention of helping some poor person who is in desparate need of healthcare??
or taking money from Person B, who is going without eating every other day because of financial problems, who has just quit her job, because medical problems were preventing her from doing it well, who's medical needs just put her bank account in the red and she doesn't even have the money for the gas to get to work! who then piddles around, asks that fine govt that she's paid to help neighbors take their kid to the doctors to have runny noses checked out and watched as they opened their windows wide during the cold winter days to air the place out, knowing full well, that her taxmoney is helping to pay the energy bill....and well, is denied, goes on, till the crisis point is hit, ends up with a broken bone, waits around with that broken bone till some state legislature gets involved and puts pressure on the surgeon to fix the danged then, and then when the bill collector calls after the surgery, and she explains how her leg is still in a caste, the family isn't getting by as it is because she hasn't worked in six or so months, and no they won't be getting any money is asked...
well if you couldn't afford the bill why did you make it?? GEE!! I don't know!! Maybe because I am pretty sure I wouldn't have been able to walk if it wasn't done!!!!!

I don't want your god blessed money!!!
I don't expect any help from the danged gov't..
And...I don't make doctor bills anymore that I can't afford to pay!!!
which probably plays a good part as to why I am unemployed at the moment!! I was unwilling to run up a ton of medical bills just for a stupid note from a doctor saying hey, this lady can't do, I went over a year crapping blood, hurting like heck, working every day, did the best I could and then got fired when I was unable to do something that quite frankly, no one else was being expected to do either......
now...tell ya what...
when the gov't stops expecting me to help the "poor", I will stop claiming that they have the responsibility to help anyone!!!

for every liberal wanting to help the "poor" there is a conservative promoting off shoring as being good for the economy, demeaning unions, and every other thing that drives wages down to create those poor!!

they are walking hand in hand. one is there to pacify the "poor" once they are so destitute that are bacically neutralized, and the other is making sure that powerful manages to obtain more and more power...
two sides of the same coin.

by the way..people without jobs don't pay that much in taxes....

and, people who can't work draws from that tax base....
so, well....maybe this is why I find it important to see that the working class has access to affordable healthcare!!

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 09:05 AM

Originally posted by woodsmom
reply to post by milominderbinder

My entire life I have been around hard working people who put in their own blood sweat and tears to better their circumstances. now I see a lot of people who's life skills include 'making it to level 20 of Halo, man'.

I's disgusting. But I suppose...what DOES one expect really? The "carrot-and-stick" approach to motivation relies upon the mule's belief that it will sooner or later get the carrot.

It shouldn't really surprise us that people aren't dedicated to working hard to succeed when common experience has told them that they WON'T get their pensions, they WON'T be promoted upon merit, and their company will toss them to the side the very SECOND they are able to hire someone with less experience and less skill for less money.

Guess who was out there at 10:00 at night chucking laundry with me in the rain. It was the OWNER in all his flanneled glory, not the little spoiled brats who only came into the state to party for the summer. He created those jobs, without his evil company, I would have been homeless for 6 years.

#1. I've owned three business myself, the most recent being a custom home building company from the late '90's to 2008.
#2. Business owners DO NOT create jobs. They never have and they NEVER WILL. DEMAND creates jobs...NOT SUPPLY. To argue with that concept is to argue with Algebra. My business stopped being worthwhile when THE DEMAND FOR MY SERVICES DRIED UP. Same with your hotel owner...he is in business ONLY because people travel and need a place to stay. He didn't invent the concept of vacations or business travel, nor did he build the incredible highway system we have so that people are ABLE to travel...irrespective of their desires to do so.
#3. Yep...the business owner is usually the one working until 10:00pm. I know I CERTAINLY WAS. That's why all of the profits went to me...I didn't do it out the goodness of my heart.
#4. The guy you worked for I don't really consider to be an "evil corporate master". He's a damn Peasant just like you and me. The "Evil" one would be the no-talent, professional dumb bitch Paris Hilton who will ultimately one day run your employer out of business by sheer brute force of wealth...NONE OF WHICH SHE HERSELF EARNED.

But none of that matters right, as long as someone is still working to pay for everyone else's freebies we will all be alright.

No. Ideally, we shouldn't be taxing income made from labor at all...that's called slavery. In a perfect world, tax revenue should come only from investment income and estate taxes. In reality...Utopia does not exist and never will. Thus, the shift to such a strategy would take a LOOONG time to do responsibly...maybe even 40 or 50 years and likely wouldn't ever result in the ABSOLUTE abolition of all income taxes from w-2's and 1099's...but hell...maybe we could get it down to 5 or 10% or so over time. You can't just completely change the rules for an economy overnight. All such sea-changes have to be gradual in order to not result in sheer disaster.

My point is that I am tired of everyone begging for handouts. I don't think that my family should have to pay, yet again for someone else. If we chose to do so, great that is our choice.

I sounds like you guys are dirt poor just like me. Real wealth in this country STARTS at about $50 million bucks in net worth. Everyone else is just a serf.

I really don't appreciate people who don't even live here make the blanket statement that we should have to pay more because Obamacare is going to save the healthcare system.

I agree. Healthcare should be totally free for you and your loved one's. In fact, the $1 Trillion dollars needed for out of pocket costs to get ObamaCare up and running as a self-sustaining system could be paid for ENTIRELY by simply seizing the assets that the Rockefeller family made off of funding the Nazi's during WWII...and that's without touching the assets of the other three primary shareholders of the Federal Reserve whom we are all owned by. Too bad we have 50% of the population arguing against their own economic interests by assuming that "taxing the rich" somehow means THEIR broke asses.

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 09:28 AM
reply to post by BellaSabre

You have been scammed by Obamacare we all have been scammed by Obamacare,

You know what "provisions" are? that is where all the taxes, fees and hidden expenses are in the healhtcare reform.

A tax is a tax and once is law that is all it needs to be at federal level.

Now when it comes to state taxes that is a different thing We still have not seen how much states will have to pass taxes to provide for the people that can not be forced into buying insurance.

Top 10 Most Expensive Obamacare Taxes and Fees

This are those parts of the Obamacare that is not been advertised to the public, sadly people that never researched into the Obamacare bill and only listened to the word of mouth of propaganda media are completely oblivious that the healthcare reform main target is not the rich or the poor, but anybody that have a job and can be forced into buying healthcare that will have to be approved by the government.

If you click on the link you will see that fees and taxes will be impose in the span of several years, this means that at the end Obamacare will be too expensive for many families and still you will be forced into it.

At least the long-term care entitlement called the CLASS program. was put on hold for now, that was going to be another entitlement in your pay roll deductions along with SS, Medicare and Medicaid.

edit on 12-12-2012 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 09:40 AM

So, let me get this straight. This is a long sentence. We’re going to be gifted with a healthcare plan that we’re forced to purchase and fined if we don’t, which purportedly covers at least 10 million more people without adding a single doctor but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn’t understand it, passed by a Congress that didn’t read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President who smokes — [laughter] — same sentence! — with funding administered by a Treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes, for which we will be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government that has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a Surgeon General who is obese — [laughter] — and finally, financed by a country that’s broke.

So what could possibly go wrong?

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 09:41 AM

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by BellaSabre
The $5.25 per month, (or $63 per year) is the maximum amount that will be charged, and it is scheduled to last for three years, then will be discontinued.
When was the last time the government ever discontinued a temporary tax?

The answer would be "never".

Contrary to popular opinion some of the BIGGEST problems in our government have NOTHING TO DO with being "right" or "left" but rather that the very FRAMEWORK wasn't thought out very well. And yes...I DID just imply that while the Founding Fathers were really quite intelligent...NONE of them were Divine. These are a few of the big things I think need to be addressed as core concepts if we want to continue to survive as a nation..and arguably as a species.

#1. An "off" switch - We talk about "deregulation" as though it "simplifies" things. However, I challenge EVERYONE HERE to go and download some of those bills that "deregulate" things and see just how "simple" they really are. Quite simply...the ONLY mechanism we have AT ALL LEVELS in our governmental structure to REPEAL legislation ACTUALLY requires that MORE LEGISLATION IS PASSED. Those "deregulation" bills are, in reality, simply a new set of regulations which supersede or countermand the previous set and they are frequently HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF PAGES THICK. We need a simple "off" switch built into our legislative process that allows one to take a vote to SIMPLY DELETE a previous law rather than passing a NEW LAW that undoes the OLD LAW. This is a HUGE reason why the country is such a cluster$%$&.

#2. Riders - We MUST develop a framework that makes it illegal for the I Love Puppies Act of 2012 to contain a "footnote" that spends $10 billion dollars on whatever sort of spooky surveillance system the government just came up with.

#3 Names of Bills - We need to make it illegal to "name" bills other than with the simple numerical reference that they go by (such as HR _______). Giving laws emotionally charged names which may or may not have ANYTHING to do with the actual law being passed simply serves to do little more than confound the public.

#4 Run-off Elections - Run-off elections damn near REQUIRE more than two parties and they work to UNIFY rather than DIVIDE the country. In a run-off election of 3 or more candidates the one who wins is the one who is the LEAST OBJECTIONABLE and/or MOST FAVORABLE to the LARGEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE. Furthermore...most people didn't feel like they "lost" if their #1 candidate didn't get in...because chances are their #2 candidate DID get in. People then have the mentality of "Well...he wasn't my first choice but President ________ is still pretty good" rather than perceiving the other side as their mortal enemy.

#5 Built-in "checks and balances" to economic bills - Subsidies helped the United States out of the Great Depression. To argue that they didn't is simply to deny reality and history. Subsidies are ALSO SENDING US into a Great Depression. How is this possible? Easy. The "subsidy" is simply a tool. It's an inanimate object that has no inherent "good" or "evil" properties to it whatsoever...just like a gun doesn't kill people. The solution? Well...imagine if we REQUIRED that any sort of subsidy-type of bill ONLY kicked in when it was NEEDED and AUTOMATICALLY went away when it WASN'T. This protects farmers and markets alike by providing a safety net against massive and unpredicted changes in supply...whilst not damning the consumer to overpay for artificially inflated systems when there ISN'T a damn catastrophe of some kind going on.

#6 Conflicts of Interest - Perhaps more than all of the others COMBINED we need to address conflicts of interest....and NOT just in terms of lobbyists. How is it not collusion for oil executives to not ALSO be on the board of directors for car companies? What bank in their right mind would EVER fund a revolutionary energy company that would serve to render the traditional oil, natural gas, and electric production obsolete? Is it REALLY OK that government officials go back and forth from being judges or FDA policy makers to working at Monsanto and vice-versa? Should a cop and a judge ACTUALLY be allowed to invest in stock in a private prison company...doesn't that give them a financial incentive to lock up as many people as possible? Don't we see how easily this could be abused to take away the freedoms of innocent people? Should Dick Cheney's company REALLY be permitted to profit MORE from an oil spill than from preventing one due to their playing both sides of the fence??

Unfortunatley, #6 is going to be the toughest sell in that it REQUIRES that we put a leash on "free enterprise" in order that we are able to remain free ourselves.

posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 09:47 AM
reply to post by dawnstar

Sadly downstar you are letting the "propaganda" of taxing the rich get to you, it doesn't work, my friend, because at the end we all are going to be hit with taxes, at federal level and don't forget that is will be also at state level.

The middle class has always been the bread and butter of the nation now is the most taxed class in the nation.

And the filthy rich will always get their money, the working class rich will just move somewhere else to avoid the increased in taxes and take their jobs with them.

Is all a lie, taxing the rich will not help us at all, because the problem is not the rich is the government.

Government is going to tax us to death.

Raising taxes is the "solution." Too bad incomes are declining. What will raising taxes do to household savings, spending and the economy?

No a darn thing as taxes comes in all forms and shapes.

Yes, I know: the solution is to "tax the rich."

How can tax revenues increase when household incomes are declining? Transfer more of the national income to taxes and that leaves less for savings, investment and consumption. The economy contracts, reducing the workforce and wages further.

If that isn't a death spiral, it is a close approximation of one.

Calls to increase taxes on the rich are highly popular with people who are not rich. This is understandable; those of us who do pay income taxes naturally feel we already pay enough and some wealthier person could cough up a few more bucks without undue sacrifice.

And of course those who pay no Federal income tax at all--about half the populace--are also in favor of unnamed "rich people" paying more, though since they have no "skin in the game" because they pay no Federal income taxes, their views are somewhat detached from the entire debate.

Will "Tax the Rich" Solve Our Deficit/Spending Crisis?

Clearly, $1.5 trillion annual Federal deficits to fund the Status Quo--fully 10% of the nation's GDP--is unsustainable. Eventually, the ad hoc "solutions" currently being pushed by the Federal Reserve--zero interest rates to keep borrowing costs artificially low and money-printing operations that buy Treasury debt--will encounter political and/or market pressures which will limit the marginal effectiveness of these interventions, and the real cost of these historically unprecedented deficits will trigger a host of unintended consequences--all negative.

Everyone knows there are only two ways to bring deficits back to sustainable levels: skim more tax revenues from the national income or cut spending on the massive Status Quo programs of Defense/National Security, Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security. The rest of the Federal programs so reviled by various constituencies are a relative drop in the bucket.

Do the Parasitic Elite Pay Any Taxes?

The parasitic financial Elite don't do any "work" in the sense of something beneficial for society, as no voluntary payment for their services exists.
If a parasite's entire income is leeched from the productive, then isn't their entire income a tax on those creating value? In this sense, the share of the parasite's income which is carved off by the Central State as tax revenues is a secondary tax: the parasite's entire income is a tax on the economy.

This distinction between legitimate wealth derived from value creation (think Steve Jobs/computer industry) and parasitic wealth skimmed from the productive (think Mitt Romney/investment banker) is the heart of Correspondent James B.'s insightful inquiry into the question: can the parasitic Elite be said to pay taxes at all, given that their income is itself a tax on legitimate wealth creation?

Sadly Obama care is not going to be affordable neither free for the hardworking Americans that at usual will be squeezed to pay for the rest that can not be forced into mandated taxes for no buying insurance.

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