Obamacare fee to offset costs of pre-existing conditions , page 3

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reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 04:10 PM by woodsmom

reply to post by CALGARIAN

OK, wait a second, plenty of people get free (to them) healthcare in the US. Sometimes the people on the 'free' care actually get better services offered to them than those of us who have to pay for it all.

I am tired of people saying that just because you work your butt off to take care of your family, then you have a moral obligation to pay higher insurance rates and healthcare costs and taxes to pay for the people who don't put in the effort for themselves. (I understand that is not everyone, but a lot)

So, why should I have to shell out another $63 a head in my family for our PAID for health insurance.
That is $249 a year for my family of 4, now let's add on the raised property taxes to pay for the school supplies that I send in every year for my child and half of his class anyway? That's another $400 a year, ok now we are up to $349 a month of added expenses, oh wait a minute, because the insurance companies are paying out the rear for Obamacare, they have now raised the rates on my homeowners and vehicle insurance to make their ends meet. So all totaled I need to pay out almost $400 more EVERY month because you think the healthcare should be free?

This is what is wrong with the world today! The attitude of I am entitled to sit on my butt all day, but oh poor me, I am broke, so someone else better give it to me. There is no reward for hard work or PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY anymore, people are rewarded for being good sheep and letting themselves be ushered into the slaughterhouse.

But thanks for telling me that I need to give up my grocery money every month.

edit on 11-12-2012 by woodsmom because: changed numbers to reflect once a year instead

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 04:20 PM by spoogemonkey

Some of you Americans are a bit silly. All your country has to do is model your health care on a system that works. Healthcare systems that work are not user pays to the degree yours is (and here you are worried about 60 bucks). Some good systems are public only, some are public and private, in all of them though, there's a ton of cash thrown at it, so everyone gets a bit. Your current system bankrupts people. And some poor folks are just left to die. You have the cash so cough up you stingy bastards. Your president is actually trying to overhaul a botched series of policies that leave people out in the cold. Your people are dying unnessesarily and you're worried about your wallets. And in a nation where effective tax rates are rather low on a world scale in developed nations.. it's deplorable. Where's the progressiveness? where's the effective means testing?

It's a joke, sorry. It's a very sad joke. And anyone who doesn't want basic health (even for those with pre-existing conditions) for all, no matter the cost is a joke too imo.

Is this anti-american? not at all, it's anti any country /person who recoils at the thought of being effectively taxed more so their health system is available to more people, people who currently don't have the option.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 04:29 PM by jrod

The health care industry is a sham. They have been ripping people off for way too long. Obamacare gives them an excuse to raise rates.

It is shameful that the US being arguably the most advanced nation in the world does not offer a universal health care option or a government standard insurance. Every other 'westernized' country has some form of universal health care, its about time the US does the same.

I don't care if you want to give me some entitlement program bs, that is simply not a factor, if you believe it is then you have been brainwashed by Foxnews. If the US would invest the same amount that they spend on invading and occupying other countries and foreign aide on healthcare we would be much better off.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 05:05 PM by milominderbinder

Originally posted by jrod
If the US would invest the same amount that they spend on invading and occupying other countries and foreign aide on healthcare we would be much better off.

If they invested THAT much I'm pretty sure that all diseases and medical conditions of any kind would have been cured in every man, woman, and child in the country and we'd be looking at about 5 years until the secrets immortality are made available to all.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 05:37 PM by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Cabalis

You said it yourself. John Galt is symbolic of intelligence AND (a grammatical conjunction connecting the two words) prosperity.

So? I think you're emphasizing the wrong word. Symbolic is the operative word. John Galt is fictional character in a work of mediocre-at-best fiction set an alternate reality that bears no resemblance to our own. He's symbolic of intelligence and prosperity in the same way that Yoda is symbolic of Jedi wisdom. Symbolism is just a literary device...it doesn't mean that Ayn Rand's point is any way actually valid

As for Trump, not every business endeavor is going to succeed.

Of course not....but some of them should...shouldn't they? The guy is a PROFESSIONAL loser. He screws up practically everything he touches. How the HELL does one file bankruptcy on a CASINO??!! The Indians went from living in teepees and wigwams to having absolutely MASTERED the ability to run a casino in a span of only three generations. How the hell does one START OUT as a SECOND GENERATION real estate tycoon who inherits all of daddy's connections, money, and family name AND YET FAIL SO MISERABLY at the endeavor? Math is on your side...the customer is going to lose 100% of the time in the long run.

And his failed casino's are among the BRIGHTER points of his "career". How about the three failed luxury magazines? The travel website? When was the last time you ordered a "Trump Vodka" instead of Grey Goose? How about his failed airline that he defaulted on his loan payments on? How about "Trump Mortgage" which was unveiled in '06 and couldn't even make it through '07? The Trump Tower fiasco in Tampa? The non-accredited Trump "University" which is now forbidden in the state of TEXAS for being nothing more than a scam? The Trump Board Game which fell 60% below the bare minimum Milton Bradley needed to produce it another year? The guy is just simply a miserable failure.
Link: www.rollingstone.com...

Well I'd gather that Romney is far more intelligent than you are considering he's done very well as a successful businessman.

...by exploiting the welfare system, manipulating the bankruptcy system, and throwing his fellow citizens under the bus. Just because he made a lot of money...DOESN'T mean he's a good businessman. Money is not the definition of success...if it was...Lee Iacocca would talked about with the same reverence as Henry Ford and Steve Jobs instead being just a guy who produced a lot of crappy automobiles until some foreigners finally bought the failed company.

Why don't we set the bar at Obama? Because he's done such a wonderful job so far.

There ARE valid criticisms about the job that Obama has done. Most notably in relation to things like not ending the wars, drone strikes, the NDAA, Bradley Manning, etc.

However...as far as Obama's economic track record he's done the most impressive job of any President in US History considering the mess he inherited and the spoiled brat republican senators in congress who have behaved like children to the detriment of every man, woman, and child in this country.

Who know who invented and advocated "Obamacare" BEFORE Mitt Romney did?

THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION...the same place that good ol' boy Jimbo DeMint just went to go work for.

So really...WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?! It's the GOP's OWN PLAN.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 05:41 PM by milominderbinder

There is no reward for hard work or PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY anymore, people are rewarded for being good sheep and letting themselves be ushered into the slaughterhouse.

Correct. We have been coddling the rich plutocracy far too long. Year after year worker productivity in the US goes up, Corporations keep producing RECORD profits...and WHERE IS THE PAY RAISE AND REWARD FOR YOU??

It doesn't exist. The rich expect to not only rob you blind and turn you into essentially slave labor at work...they want you to pay THEIR damn taxes for them too.

I'm glad you agree with me on what the root of the problem REALLY is.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 05:44 PM by milominderbinder

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by marg6043

I didn't expect anything else. This whole thing is just welfare for insurance companies. It needs to be repealed immediately.

^^^THAT I agree with 100%. We NEVER should have made an attempt to coddle the right wing loonies at all. We should have just went with straight-up single payer socialized medicine and covered the cost by taking it right out of Mitt Romney's ass and ending a pair of pointless wars.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 05:48 PM by milominderbinder

The 47% will never pay taxes under the current regime.

Everybody in America pays tax....including homeless people and 4 year old kids who buy a pack of gum at the grocery store. 90% of Americans pay the payroll tax. Every renter in America pays property taxes ON BEHALF of their landlords.

The fact that 47% of Americans aren't PRIVILEGED enough to BE ABLE to pay INCOME taxes means that the top tiers of society are sucking up too much profit and it's just not "trickling down" like it's supposed to be.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 05:51 PM by milominderbinder

Originally posted by jrod
The health care industry is a sham. They have been ripping people off for way too long. Obamacare gives them an excuse to raise rates.

It is shameful that the US being arguably the most advanced nation in the world does not offer a universal health care option or a government standard insurance. Every other 'westernized' country has some form of universal health care, its about time the US does the same.

I don't care if you want to give me some entitlement program bs, that is simply not a factor, if you believe it is then you have been brainwashed by Foxnews. If the US would invest the same amount that they spend on invading and occupying other countries and foreign aide on healthcare we would be much better off.

Agreed.

We can put a man on the moon, a nuclear powered robot on mars, laser cannons on our battleships, floating islands we call "aircraft carriers" which EACH carry more firepower than was used BY ALL SIDES of WWII...but we just can't possibly send Grandma to Doctor.

That's "too expensive".

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 06:21 PM by woodsmom

reply to post by milominderbinder

My entire life I have been around hard working people who put in their own blood sweat and tears to better their circumstances. now I see a lot of people who's life skills include 'making it to level 20 of Halo, man'. I see people who create families but realize how much work it is and walk away. I meet people who would sit at their computer and scoff at someone who does something for themselves.

Nobody is willing to get their hands dirty anymore. I happened to know personally an owner of multiple hotels in a resort town, I was one of his management staff. Guess who was out there at 10:00 at night chucking laundry with me in the rain. It was the OWNER in all his flanneled glory, not the little spoiled brats who only came into the state to party for the summer. He created those jobs, without his evil company, I would have been homeless for 6 years.
But none of that matters right, as long as someone is still working to pay for everyone else's freebies we will all be alright.

I was an evil business owner myself. I got off my butt and decided I didn't want to work for someone else anymore. Oh, but does that count since I performed a service that nobody else wanted to do?
I actually had a potential client utterly insult me, because she was too good to scrub her own toilet, but she was glad that someone like me would be willing to. My husband works his butt off, and guess what, just got his 6th raise since the economy took a crap. Do you know why? Because he is a good hard worker.

We can go back to the days before the evil corporations took over, fine! I would love it and my family would thrive. How many people could live without their convenience foods and restaurants? Evil companies.
How many people could live without transportation? More evil companies. Oh and that computer of yours was built by someone who works for....wait for it, an Evil company.

My point is that I am tired of everyone begging for handouts. I don't think that my family should have to pay, yet again for someone else. If we chose to do so, great that is our choice. I don't think that the government should be able to force me to do otherwise. I really don't appreciate people who don't even live here make the blanket statement that we should have to pay more because Obamacare is going to save the healthcare system.
The people already in the system get BETTER care now than their PAYING counterparts and it is BS. I know from very recent experience.

PS When was the last time you took food to your local foodbank? or given school supplies or warm clothes to your local school, or gone grocery shopping to the tune of $300 for a needy family.

No Thanks. I give when and where I see the need, not when someone calls my house asking for a handout shortly after bragging about a new gaming system. Or when someone on an online forum sits there and tells me I should.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 06:32 PM by woodsmom

reply to post by spoogemonkey

Stingy Bastards? Really?
Denying a woman the right to stay close to her premature child is stingy.
My sister in law was denied the right to stay on hospital property with her premature ( by 2 months) baby because my brother works his arse off slinging iron rod all day long, and pays for his own insurance.

Someone I know on welfare just had the same issue arise, within days & at the same hospital, the welfare mother is somehow entitled to stay close to her child more than my sister in law is. I offered to put her up in a place close by so that she could continue to provide her infant with her breast milk. My hardworking brother said no thanks we will figure it out and he did.

The welfare family, friends of ours, also had their baby premature, and guess what she gets to stay on hospital property to be close to her baby. And I got a phone call from my friend who basically said to me, I am broke, give me money because you have it.

Nope, for some reason the people who don't work for it get the perks that the rest of us pay for.
But not liking someone taking food from my child's mouth makes me a stingy bastard, so be it.

Maybe we should all quit and jump on the system, then who would pay for it?

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 06:47 PM by dogstar23

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Your medical plan is facing an unexpected expense, so you probably are, too. It's a new, $63-per-head fee to cushion the cost of covering people with pre-existing conditions under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul. The charge, buried in a recent regulation, works out to tens of millions of dollars for the largest companies, employers say. Most of that is likely to be passed on to workers. Employee benefits lawyer Chantel Sheaks calls it a "sleeper issue" with significant financial consequences, particularly for large employers.

There you go. Everybody thought that this no pre-existing condition thing would be a freebie. There are no freebies liberals. Just another reason for employers to cut fulltime positions and reduce staffing overall. When will liberals learn? Everything has a cost. How many jobs will this cost? If they do not cut jobs over this, the employers will pass the cost along. I will not participate in this non-sense. I am "Going Galt".

Obamacare-fee-to-offset-costs-o f-pre-existing-conditions
edit on 11-12-2012 by DarthMuerte
because: (no reason given)

LOL who thought it would be a "freebie?" I find it hard to believe even 2% of the population thought it would be a freebie. Now, I'm no fan of the plan, I think what we need is controls and regulations. Doctos and nurses should be making most of the money in healthcare, not insurance and pharma company execs, but the alternatives to this are twofold:

1) just let people die or lose their ability to be productive if they can't afford $8,000/year for healthcare insurance

2) continue to do as we do now - have the uninsured go to the ER for everything, boosting the costs of healthcare for the rest of us. If you think $60 is Bd, what about the 20% annual increase in costs under the current system, which is nothing more than a plan to milk a huge percentage of GDP to be dumped into CEO bonuses.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 07:22 PM by MystikMushroom

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy
So I throw in $63 whole bucks a year and that's my part of helping to ensure that people with preexisting conditions are not refused by insurance? Sounds like a bargain to me. God forbid, I guess we just stay home one Saturday night a year and it's covered. Oh the burden!

I'm with you on that! $63 to make sure that someone that gets a job and insurance can now get the treatment they need...? Sounds like a deal to me.

Unlike many people it seems -- I have a heart.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:11 PM by GreenGlassDoor

I am one of those working poor (I don't even have internet- I use it at a friends house) I make too much to be on welfare by about $2000. I don't get benefits from my job, so I am always looking for ways to get insurance. I've enrolled in a community college to get coverage before. Now, I am currently trying to negotiate with an insurance company for a high-deductible plan. Initially, it was $100 a month for a $10,000 deductible. Now it's $130. That is the limit I can afford.

I've beed denied coverage for the stupidest of reasons.

The problem with US medicine is insurance and monopolies like the AMA.

I agree that $63 to implement Obamacare is ridiculous. But what are you going to do? If politicians solved problems we wouldn't have a need to keep them in office.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 09:27 PM by tehdouglas

I live paycheck to paycheck and the only "luxury" I have is my cel phone, which is part of a family plan and the internet. I have no money for insurance and Obama says its mandatory. What do you Democrats expect me to do? Seriously, I have no freaking money and im $30,000+ in debt from college, working 2 part time barely above minimum wage jobs. Gotta make sure the insurance companies make a big profit! :|

And to the guy who said $63 equates to one Saturday out, # you, thats food for a week for me.

edit on 11-12-2012 by tehdouglas because: (no reason given)

"Unlike many people it seems -- I have a heart. "
And money apparently.

edit on 11-12-2012 by tehdouglas because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 10:02 PM by votan

reply to post by DarthMuerte

So instead of focusing on employers/rich/big corps shoving the costs on to employees in the form of cut jobs and wages.... you direct your focus on something else.

I see we continue to keep Corps on the throne without anyone focusing on how they sacrifice the common man before taking a hit to their profit.

Its funny how Corps/rich are above everything. They manipulate government to let them take money from the common man legally and avoid taxes, then when the people push back with government they just pass the push right right back at us.... They are immune to everything. It is hilarious.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 10:02 PM by votan

reply to post by DarthMuerte

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 10:20 PM by RobinB022

Originally posted by clearmind
reply to post by DarthMuerte

good thread, and good responses to the .......trolls... just facts and no attacks..well done... (end response)

and now....'i told you so!!!!' and everybody thought the great messiah was gunna give everybody 'free' health care.....ha !! the politicians didnt read the bills and why would the people do so? all this makes me wonder what else is hidden in the bill??!!? how long did it take this new hidden fee to amerge? what other hidden fees will emerge?

and as some posters have obviously missed the point....the govt lied!!! again!! egads people.....

Nobody ever pays attention to me whenever I bring this up, and I can't find the link right now (though I have links in my drafts somewhere), but... all one has to do to understand anything our Gov't puts forth is to see how they explain the word 'exactly' in the Wax-Hatchman Act.
---------------

Good thread.. even if I do disagree with some parts of it.
Really, all those running for office lie-every single one of them-it's up to us to educate ourselves before we vote.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 10:26 PM by rgzing

reply to post by DarthMuerte

Has anyone tried to get a policy to cover pre-existing conditions? I did. The premium was $2758 a month. My condition was high blood pressure. Obamacare is BS.

reply posted on 11-12-2012 @ 10:40 PM by GreenGlassDoor

While I don't believe Obamacare to be anything more than a tithe for health insurance companies, here is a chart that shows doctor visits, costs, and life expectancy. It is pretty damning for the US. We spend the most but have a life expectancy a little higher than Mexico which spends the least.

Something needs to be done.