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Intelligent Designer? Not yet.

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posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 02:35 AM
There is a point where you ask Christians the same question; well if your God created all this, then who created your God? They always respond with "Well, I don't know, I'll ask when I die" or some variation of such. This is all very tiresome, and mentally straining to an intelligent person because the jest of any answer such a person provides is simply this: "I'm done thinking".

Now, if you ask a scientist, "Ah yes, so everything was created by two pieces of matter colliding, and there was a massive explosion that is still technically going on, and everything expanded to the point of where we are today. A bunch of random chance physic laws created intelligent beings with bodies that work so wonderfully. Excellent! So where did the two pieces of matter come from?" They would normally respond with some jibber jabber about false vacuum's and quantum fluctuations, but it's still just that, a theory. The math breaks down at a certain point in backtracking the Bang.

The point is, the Genesis has as much standing right now as the Big Bang, other than the fact that science doesn't allow for magic, and magic has never been proven, the laws of physics have. Unless you are an ancient astronaut theorist than the Bible should be of no consequence in the discussion of creation, and even then, what created the aliens?

There are theories of a quantum loop, or a time loop in which something happened, or a person intervened in a later time that caused a vacuum to reverberate back to the beginning of time and started the big bang, again what started the loop? There ARE no answers at the point when it comes to the moment before the big bang, and we just have to accept that until scientists finally recreate the moment from a complete vacuum.

posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 02:57 AM

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
I think when looking at the sophistication of the world, intelligent design makes more sense than development by chance. The evidence in favor of God is stronger than the evidence against.

You make the big cardinal mistake any ID/creationism person does:

You think the opposite of creationism means that everything happened by chance.

NOTHING happens "by chance". Even if we assume there is no creator, for an organism to evolve and adapt over millions of years and survive means that the organism MUST have had perfectly adapted to the environment.

There is no other possible outcome than that an organism will be "perfect", otherwise it would not EXIST.

Example: Fish did not develop fins or gills "by chance". They have developed over millions of years to adapt them to "breathe" and move under water perfectly.

What did you expect? Fish to develop feet? Why should a fish have developed feet if its entirely useless for living in the water?

Again: There is no other possible way as any living being adapting and developing perfectly where everything "makes sense". This is how nature works.

Is the fact that a fish has gills which enable it to "magically" live under water without the need for breathing air "proof" of a creator?

While, from a certain point of view life in its many forms is indeed sophisticated - in many ways it is NOT AT ALL!

First, you do not even know what the alternative is when you say "sophisticated". Is it sophisticated we have lungs which allow us to breathe air? Or eyes, or a nose? Or skin?

Why do we even NEED to breathe air? Why do we "need" eyes? It would be more "sophisticated" if we would not have the requirement to breathe, eat, sleep etc. in the first place. We do we die? Why do we feel pain? Why can we lose a limb? Why can a living being get sick? Why do we get old? Why are we not able to communicate telepathically instead having to learn a language? Why do we have to keep drinking and eating just to live?

Why would an "intelligent" designer make all those life forms where each has so many requirements to exist?

posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:24 AM
reply to post by flexy123

posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 06:24 AM
What would something that wasn't designed look like?

And how would you tell the difference?

posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 12:02 AM
reply to post by flexy123

Your examples concerning natural selection of biological traits don't tell the entire story. Do you have any insight as to the "natural selection" involved in the development of amino acids, or DNA. The precursors of intelligent life. How about the general development of matter as we know it- complex molecules, as well as simple molecules with complex functions such as water.

How about the the processes that resulted in the behavior of basic forces such as gravity and electromagnetism? Such processes that produce planets revolving around stars, which revolve together in an immense galaxy in a way stable enough to produce the life we know...

When I say things didn't just happen "by chance," I intend to refer not just to the development of humanity/biology on Earth- but the development of the basic functions that preceded and allowed for the development of humanity.

Physical law exists, so does biological law- but I believe there is a more fundamental factor behind these which designs the universe in a way specifically to promote the development of life. Call it God, or whatever.

posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 02:19 AM

Originally posted by Daeobi
The point is, the Genesis has as much standing right now as the Big Bang, other than the fact that science doesn't allow for magic, and magic has never been proven, the laws of physics have. Unless you are an ancient astronaut theorist than the Bible should be of no consequence in the discussion of creation, and even then, what created the aliens?

Genesis does not have as much standing as the big bang. There is a lot of evidence that shows big bang. Obviously due to cosmic censorship, it is impossible to study anything before the big bang, but that doesn't mean the bible suddenly has viability just because we do not have complete knowledge of everything. There are many parts of genesis that are demonstrability wrong. That is not true of big bang theory or any of the mathematical quantum theories. I agree that the bible should be irrelevant to the creation / ID discussion, but so should personal interpretation / opinion on how things appear. The bottom line is we don't know the answer, but science keeps getting us closer while religion historically has suppressed science and taken us further away from learning the truth.

posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 02:35 AM
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17

I just wanted to add in that natural selection only applies to evolution, which only applies to biological organisms. Any argument you can use to say that things happen by chance can also apply to god or this intelligent force/factor you refer to. What would be the origination of this fundamental factor? Did that just happen by chance? No matter how you slice it, it boils down to the same thing. We don't know the answer, so we insert whatever we feel like into the equation. The universal laws are the universal laws. That just might be the way things are. Just because gravity exists and we can measure universal forces doesn't mean they had to be set up. Saying the universe is so perfectly set up for life, is a bit silly considering we occupy less than .00000000000001% of it and it's the only known place capable of supporting life and we have yet to discover another place in our galaxy that isn't immediately lethal to all known lifeforms on earth.

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