Originally posted by randomname
so, humanity has the ability to run a simulation and this is the best we can come up with.

death, war, famine, evil, poverty, disease, suffering and every other human sorrow you can think of.

what would be the point.

The point would be to come 'here' to experience imperfection.

In this way, we might better know and appreciate something closer to perfection.

This is just my opinion of course.

As a computer programmer myself, I believe it is completely possible. As a matter of fact, if we continue on our current technological-evolutionary path, we may be able to create simulations of other universes in less than 500 years. Probably less than 100, but that's only if we fix our current world economic and political issues, which I see resolving themselves at no close point in the future.

I feel the myth of terminators and 'singularities' holds the field of AI back from where it should be. Truth is, a program won't kill unless it is designed to kill, and that's final. A robot can't 'snap' and 'go rogue', and robots won't 'snap' into being smarter than humans unless we program them to be (which makes no sense, as intelligence and experience go hand in hand).

If we can simulate a human being in less than 500 or 100 years, and currently we have supercomputers that can simulate atomic reactions:

The six initial projects to use Titan include:

1. - S3D, a project that models fine grain physics surrounding combustion aiming to improve the efficiency of diesel and biofuel engines.
   
2. - In 2009, they produced the first fully resolved simulation of autoigniting hydrocarbon flames relevant to the efficiency of direct injection diesel engines using Jaguar.
   
3. - The WL-LSMS project simulates the interactions between electrons and atoms in magnetic materials at temperatures other than absolute zero.
   
4. - Denovo simulates nuclear reactions with the aim of improving the efficiency and reducing the waste of nuclear reactors.
   
5. - Large-scale Atomic/Molecular Massively Parallel Simulator (LAMMPS) is a molecular dynamics code that simulates particles across a range of scales from atomic to relativistic to improve materials science with potential improvements to semi-conductors, biomolecules and polymers.
   
6. - Community Atmosphere Model, a global atmosphere model, and High Order Method Modeling Environment, a code that solves fluid and thermodynamic equations. CAM-SE will allow greater accuracy in climate simulations.
   
7. - Non-Equilibrium Radiation Diffusion (NRDF) plots non-charged particles through supernovae with potential applications in laser fusion, fluid dynamics, medical imaging, nuclear reactors, energy storage and combustion.
   

We have come far, but we will go further.

If we are indeed in simulation it would probably also mean that we don't really have freedom of choice. Everything that happens is dictated by the rules of the simulation and the start-setting. They may re-start the simulation anytime and they would end up with the exact same situation.

Currently we have many simulated worlds for entertainment (Sims, WoW, etc.), maybe this is also for entertainment and we are just NPC's (non-player characters) and the people running the simulation have fun by controlling powerful characters, the president of the US for example .

Originally posted by redbore
If we are indeed in simulation it would probably also mean that we don't really have freedom of choice. Everything that happens is dictated by the rules of the simulation and the start-setting. They may re-start the simulation anytime and they would end up with the exact same situation.

Currently we have many simulated worlds for entertainment (Sims, WoW, etc.), maybe this is also for entertainment and we are just NPC's (non-player characters) and the people running the simulation have fun by controlling powerful characters, the president of the US for example .

Well, not exactly. When running a simulation, you can leave many variables open (blank), and have other variables affect that variable. Likewise, you can interfere with the simulation at any point.

In relation to reality, for instance, if we were to go back in time to the beginning of everything and anything, then no matter where we were currently or what was going on, we would all reach the same start point. We could have an alien invasion, and go back to the same start point as if we never had an alien invasion.

If this is a simulation and you have the ability to re-live any and all of this, then how many times would you hit rewind and live out the day you realized it was a simulation?

Are you doing that now?

Originally posted by Malynn
Providing links to Wikipedia does not = proof. Man saying they invented something doesn't make it true. How do we know someone from another planet did not invent computers and give the design to an Earth human? How do we know that other civilizations a long way away did not invent computers millions of years ago? I realize your answer to this will likely be that "there are no beings or civilizations other than ours." I say prove that.

edit on 12/11/12 by Malynn because: (no reason given)

Ok. A computer is a computer. True or false? Although I cannot prove it, I'm assuming you're using one. Turn on a simulation, and try it out, play around with it for a bit. Now go outside, look around, and contemplate the similarities. Now, name one similarity between a computer program and reality.

Did man invent painting? Perhaps aliens taught him to. Either way, why do you not think we live in a giant painting? Or in any other creation of man? Maybe we all live in a giant apple pie? Maybe aliens taught us to make apple pie, and so thus, the possibility of living in one is there. How do you know that other civilizations a long way away did not invent apple pies so we can live in one?

It is possible to doubt yourself into non-existence if you so choose, but that doesn't change anything. Maybe its cool to think we're brains in jars, maybe it would be cool if we could hack reality and fly, maybe aliens are controlling our every move, but show me one indication this is actually the case, and you might find something to base your argument on.

One argument is all I ask.

ETA: The only argument I see is "the belief that there is a significant chance that we will one day become posthumans who run ancestor simulations is false, unless we are currently living in a simulation.”

This is logically valid and sound, but doesn't prove anything, unless you think our future us's can run simulations for our ancestors—us. This is, of course, impossible.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff


Hasnt it already been proven that nothing exists without something to observe it?

hmm, thats true..

so what if souls were acting as a node & the proximity to each other strengthens the reality..

head out to space & have complete control matrix style in isolation..

maybe thats why the wise man always lived on a hill in a cave away from cluttered minds..

Well I don't know about you, but I have spent the best part of my day picking up pieces of brain from my keyboard when I saw this thread come up.

The whole thing is just mind blowing.

Please bear with me, my thoughts are quite fragmented, but hopefully I will make some sense.

My first point is timing...It is interesting that the birth of this concept into the mainstream came about in the last ten or so years, thats not to say it hasn't been around longer, but the fact that Bostrum's theory came about after the advent of the matrix, thirteenth floor kind of has me wondering if there is a which came first the chicken or the egg scenario about this concept.

Second, are we the atheists amoungst us swapping one form of religion for another, when we think in terms of a simulated existence, in that we don't accept there is a God, but we are willing to accept the possibility of a programmer.

My third comes from an ego-centric perspective, if we for a moment imagine this to be true, then is it not possible that instead of being intergrated, that actually, this thread, all of you, my children, the President of the United Sates, Fleabag monkey face (kids cartoon...knew I'd fit him in a thread one day) are all just a construct of my consiousness/subconciousness, facets of my simulated reailty, this would mean the same would be true in turn for everyone else, billions of simulated universes, unique to everyone, perhaps everything.

Granted that was really out there, but I had to get it out, even if I am talking to myself lol.

From my personal perspective (don't ask me which one that is...I haven't a clue if the above holds any water), I'm not sure I can buy into the whole simulated world scenario, I get the deja vu, I get the principle, for me what I don't get is my children.

If I am part of a computer simulation, then my children would have to be pre-determined ?

Or do we have a degree of control as to how the simulation plays out ?

I can accept being information projected from an event horizon, as theorised by Sussman (Holographic Principle), how the information came to be, well perhaps that is the simulation server we are spawned (crude choice of words I know) from.

I'd like to think the server is organic, organsied natural occuring choas, rather than a cold calculated action by an entity/entities (programmer)

Great thread OP.

Please excuse me, got to run, I think I just found some of my frontal lobe wedged in the escape key !