Hey bashers and bashers of bashers.

This offers no sensational opinions so it is destined to fall to the depths of ATS quietly, be that as it may, I still feel it necessary to post this.


This is only meant for those posting hateful comments within said groups, I do not believe this applies to all members of said groups.

ATS has got to the point where I'm feeling a lot of hate everywhere, this may be the norm and I may just be realizing it but I feel to a point it has gotten worse in my short time here.

To the followers of the three major religions, we are all brothers and sisters worshiping the same god and there is no reason in my mind why we should find it necessary to insult each other. We may have a different Messiah or not one at all but really who is it we all share our love for?

Non believers may bash us but have we not been taught to turn the other cheek, why let yourself fall into such foolishness? God loves all his children even those who are sinners and non believers. These are your fellow men and women, we are not higher than them and if you believe differently I think you need to reconsider what religion you think you are part of. There is no reason for hateful or ignorant comments towards other ATS members.

Fellow Christians:
Luke 6
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

To the Atheist and other Spiritualist however you may define yourself, there is no need for flaming of one another based on actions of a few (be it may be a large few at times). People of all groups have shown ignorance at one point, but please recognize this behavior does not reflect all of one group. I hate to be minimized into one small category based on a single belief as I am sure you do as well.

We are here to deny ignorance, not pick each other apart based on our belief system. Unless a thread is specifically asking you to scrutinize or debunk their religion you have no reason for hurtful off topic comments posted at others.

I'd like to call a truce between those of us who have the capacity to fulfill such a commitment.

/End preachy post (Sorry but way it came out in my head).

Truce flag accepted with me and my beliefs.

I don't want to "fight" with anyone about their beliefs. It's nonsense to me.

Are you happy? Are you doing what you want to be doing? Do you care about life?
If the answer is YES to most of those questions, you're alright with me. Otherwise, you're wasting time, especially your own. Why bother continuing on that road?

I don't believe in organized Religion, at all, but I can respect you if you respect me.
Shouldn't that be all of our basic concepts?

reply to post by JibbyJedi


Well said.

I don't expect a massive confessional or anything I just wanted to get it out that we are not all perfect and lets get ATS threads following with on topic post.

Originally posted by ashtonhz8907
reply to post by JibbyJedi

 

Well said.

I don't expect a massive confessional or anything I just wanted to get it out that we are not all perfect and lets get ATS threads following with on topic post.

I am a Jedi, and I am far from perfect. Master Jedi is a long way away for me.

My beliefs would probably insult you & your beliefs, about God, outside of "God", we are probably compatable as friends. Why should Religious belief separate our lives and prosperity? I just don't get it.

God wouldn't want us fighting with each other, or hating one another. Yet that seems to be what organized Regions do. Why? Doesn't sound very "Holy" to me. Jesus loved all sinners. Especially sinners.

reply to post by ashtonhz8907


Amen to that brother!

Now, lets concentrate on the task at hand and the game-changer..........where are those bloody UFO's at?

That's what I wanna know.

S&F for telling it like it is - love of your brothers and sisters, from all walks of life, is the key.

The religious debate threads are frequent and pretty much indivisible from ATS. Same goes for the [anti]alien threads, and those related to spirituality. There will always be a degree of aggression, criticism, & rudeness to these topics. Although I do think there's a difference between healthy criticism/skepticism, & outright insulting people. The problem is that these threads are heavily, subjectively biased. Religious people follow their belief because the dogma acts as a spiritual scaffolding for them to live their life by. It gives some mental comfort knowing you're going to live for eternity in a blissful afterlife. When people try to take that away, things get ugly.

Same goes for hardcore atheist who don't want to accept that intelligent design may actually be a logical explanation. And for people who 'know' that their meditative practices have revealed extra dimensions that they're able to ascend to and converse with infinitely wise, benevolent entities.

reply to post by Raelsatu


Yeah, I know. Just asking for the few who can, to try and refrain from such rudeness and lets try to clean up our act.

Anyways, getting late for me have a good night all who have read. And stay cool.

reply to post by JibbyJedi

I'm with you JibbyJedi! Let's all quit fighting each other and get back to fighting the bad guys like we're supposed to!

reply to post by ashtonhz8907


I have absolutely no problem leaving Abrahamic religions alone if they stay indoor and preach, but thats not the issue here, its exactly the opposite.. They are in you face and wants you to accept them or die in hell.

I do not believe in any of those craps but what would you do if someone comes to you every day and starts called you sinner because you don't believe in fairy tales... then you turn on TV and they are talking about tooth faith... politicians praise tooth fairy.

I will be denying ignorance when its in my face.

Keep the religion indoor. Why is a personal belief outside again?

I only really "go after" others when they misrepresent Christianity or some aspect of it. I long ago decided that Islam, Hinduism, agnosticism, atheism and all the rest are all perfectly valid positions for people to have come to, and have no interest in changing their minds. That's called "respect".

However, by the same token, I expect the same amount of respect from others, and making demonstrably false statements about Christianity is not being respectful and requires a response. People who claim that Emperor Constantine created the Bible, or that religion is the cause of most wars, or that all Christians are conservative homophobes are liars and need to be called out as such, lest such ridiculous beliefs become even more mainstream than they are.

I am totally ripping off Monty Python when I say that I'd like to bash those who bash other people's bashing.

On a more serious note, thanks OP, this HAD to be said and I hope this thread goes on for a long time. SALUTE!

Originally posted by adjensen
People who claim that Emperor Constantine created the Bible

It was most certainly collated by him. Written? Absolutely not. It's absolutely reasonable to question whether certain things were added or left out in the process. Claiming that he wrote it in its entirety would be absolutely absurd, though.

or that religion is the cause of most wars

If it is not the premise -- which it often is -- it is most certainly a device used to rally support in almost every single war.

or that all Christians are conservative homophobes are liars and need to be called out as such

It's a fraction, but a loud fraction. Very good for the press since it annoys so many people.

---

On topic with the thread... I think it stands to reason that it's not just an ATS-specific problem. People just get emotionally attached to their beliefs and when they are challenged they tend to get frustrated; when the pushing goes too far, a push back comes in many varieties. It's all very silly and borderline juvenile but I think it has a lot to do with peoples' attitudes in respect to their tendencies to assume offense at every opinion that opposes their own.

Originally posted by LightOrange

Originally posted by adjensen
People who claim that Emperor Constantine created the Bible

It was most certainly collated by him.

No, it most certainly was not "collated by him." Development of the Biblical Canon -- do you see Constantine in there, apart from the note that he legalized Christianity?

or that religion is the cause of most wars

If it is not the premise -- which it often is -- it is most certainly a device used to rally support in almost every single war.

No, it is not. Read The War Audit and you'll see that religion played absolutely no role in 60% of known historical wars.

History is our friend in preventing us from making ignorant statements.

reply to post by ashtonhz8907


As long as such a truce doesn't require me to stop questioning the beliefs of others and call ignorance where it undeniably makes itself known, I accept. There is a certain point where being kind about interacting must play second row to being serious about learning.

I have never wanted to hurt or oppress anyone, I've only ever wanted to show them new perspectives. I believe a shift in perspective is beneficial to EVERYONE, including myself.

From Pastafarians everywhere. We accept your offer of peace.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a benevolent being and only wishes peace between all.

Accept His Noodly Magnificence into your heart, into your soul, and ye shall forever be free. R'Amen.

When it comes to certain subjects, it is pointless to confront others. Religion is just such a subject.

It's all about respect. If one cannot respect another's beliefs, and feels that they have the only true path to God, then that person is the one with the problem.

As far as history goes, religion has been used as a reason for more death, destruction, torture and defamantion than any other reason.

Why? Because people cannot seem to understand that there are many paths to heaven, and many ways to know and worship God.

I think that religious zealots cannot think that way, because that would cause them to question their particular belief system. Much easier to assume that everybody else is a sinner or an infidel or a heretic.

I remember somebody where I worked once, they went off on me and said that there was no way I was going to Heaven unless I followed their specific religion. I told them I didn't want to go to Heaven if it was filled with idiots like him, because that would just be another kind of hell.

But that was long ago in my hot-headed youth. These days, I agree to disagree online and move on. I respect their ideas, although I may not agree with them. Without firm beliefs to anchor us, we are like feathers in the wind. Now, if we could just get some people to stop using that anchor as a weapon, it would be a much nicer world.

The best thing to do is just not bring it up. I fail to see how religion or non-religion plays a factor in any argument, so I have to ask why do people even bring it up? Is someone going to treat you differently if you an Islamist or a Wiccan? It doesn't, and shouldn't matter. Religion or non-religion should never be brought up unless it plays a central role in the conversation at hand.

I once thought the Internet was a faceless continent. Now it's just a continent of faceless people.

Originally posted by ashtonhz8907

This is only meant for those posting hateful comments within said groups, I do not believe this applies to all members of said groups.[/align]

To the followers of the three major religions, we are all brothers and sisters worshiping the same god and there is no reason in my mind why we should find it necessary to insult each other. We may have a different Messiah or not one at all but really who is it we all share our love for?

Non believers may bash us but have we not been taught to turn the other cheek, why let yourself fall into such foolishness? God loves all his children even those who are sinners and non believers. These are your fellow men and women, we are not higher than them and if you believe differently I think you need to reconsider what religion you think you are part of. There is no reason for hateful or ignorant comments towards other ATS members.

Fellow Christians:
Luke 6
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

To the Atheist and other Spiritualist however you may define yourself, there is no need for flaming of one another based on actions of a few (be it may be a large few at times). People of all groups have shown ignorance at one point, but please recognize this behavior does not reflect all of one group. I hate to be minimized into one small category based on a single belief as I am sure you do as well.

We are here to deny ignorance, not pick each other apart based on our belief system. Unless a thread is specifically asking you to scrutinize or debunk their religion you have no reason for hurtful off topic comments posted at others.

I'd like to call a truce between those of us who have the capacity to fulfill such a commitment.

I don't consider myself a Christian but I do take notice when people make attempts at decieving others about the bible for their own personal gain. For one, I think it's ignorant to persuade "bashers" to stop scrutinizing the "Christian religion", infact I think that all things could use a little more scrutiny, it's best way to deny ignorance imo.
Luke is a great book, although I do believe that those who follow Jesus are to EXPECT "bashers", but instead what I see is, "To those of us who have the capacity to kiss butt, let us live long and don't forget the carmex."
The point is, Jesus said that no servant is greater than his master, if they persecuted him they'll persecute those who follow him. Jesus didn't go around saying, "You people following me deserve respect!", he warned his followers that they'd be killed, jailed, and persecuted for their righteousness, not righteousness according to people's standards, but by God's standard of perfection.
It's one thing to expect oneself to be merciful, but it's another to expect others to be merciful. Sure there are people who expect to be treated with respect and will give due respect in return, but where's the reward in that, even sinners love those who love them.
People are going to be getting their feelings hurt no matter who they are, offenses must come. A single thread isn't going to destroy the fact that people are going to offend and be offended, so all the tree hugging talk in the world isn't going to change that, lets be realistic, the bible doesn't say that Jesus came to bring peace but a sword. Call me evil or whatever, I'm just looking at something for what it is. Sure it would be nice to live in Pleasantville, but that just isn't the case, what Jesus said is true no matter how good one thinks their intentions are. Really, I'm reminded of this:

But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” -Matthew 16:23

I'm writing all of this because I understand abuse, there is no avoiding it, what I refuse to do is cling to my abusers, I refuse to appease people who think evil in their hearts but rather get them thinking about what justice really is. Make no mistake, God is going to take vengeance, we all are going to be held acountable for our words and actions, Christian or not. The word hateful is a matter of opinion imo, people hated Jesus did that make him "hateful", maybe so from some people's perspectives.

Originally posted by ashtonhz8907
ATS has got to the point where I'm feeling a lot of hate everywhere, this may be the norm and I may just be realizing it but I feel to a point it has gotten worse in my short time here.

If we're not on the same side of the religious fence...it doesn't matter - this "hate" seems to be coming more to the surface (of late) than I noticed, before, as well.
That does not mean that I didn't notice it, before -- but, the masks are disappearing more rapidly than I recall.

To the followers of the three major religions, we are all brothers and sisters worshiping the same god and there is no reason in my mind why we should find it necessary to insult each other. We may have a different Messiah or not one at all but really who is it we all share our love for?

While you may believe this (and I have no reason to count you wrong) - in some Christian circles, your assertion is counted a lie (they count the Muslim deity - a demon...and, believe they have "Biblical" evidence to support that claim).

Non believers may bash us but have we not been taught to turn the other cheek, why let yourself fall into such foolishness? God loves all his children even those who are sinners and non believers. These are your fellow men and women, we are not higher than them and if you believe differently I think you need to reconsider what religion you think you are part of. There is no reason for hateful or ignorant comments towards other ATS members.

Bashing someone for their beliefs is tantamount to saying "my dog is bigger than your dog"...
If I do not believe what you believe (and odds are pretty good that there a ton of things that would fit into this category) - there is no reason for us to discuss our differences...if pride & ego are intimately involved.

This, however, is a fairly simplistic view of what goes on...on ATS.
No matter how well you (OP) preach your point -- No matter how well you document the biblical justification for the approach (response) you've suggested -- And, no matter how "right" your perspective might be...there are those on your side of the fence (3 major religions /// Chrisitianity) that BELIEVE the exact opposite.
I asked one such "missionary" once (on another site) about his constant belittling of others (of many different "faiths" and beliefs)...and pointed to some of the same issues you've raised, here - to which he replied - "Yeah - well, the assumption that we adhere to "turn the other cheek" is the same mistake the Muslims made during the Crusades."
That doesn't appear to be the path you advocate -- but, guess what? --- IT'S OUT THERE.

Please consider this, however --
What you're seeing on both sides of these debates (atheism vs Christianity ; agnosticism vs theism ; creationism vs evolution ; mainstream archaeology vs ancient aliens ; etc...) is emotion. If there were nothing behind the emotions, there would be no need of "fighting/bashing".
Some will amass tons of facts (without validating any or placing any into appropriate context)...to bash with...simply because of whatever pain or harm or injustice they perceive to have come at "the hands" of the bashee (or - the premise of the bashee's position).

This site is full of this "bashing"...on ALL SIDES -- It isn't just religious versus "everyone-else"...

1. 911-Truther -vs- 911-Official Story
   
2. Ancient Aliens -vs- Biblical Creation -vs- Darwinian Evolution
   
3. TPTB -vs- No Elite Conspiracy
   
4. Banks/Rothschilds -vs- Everybody Else
   
5. Liberals -vs- Conservatives
   
6. Fox News -vs- CNN
   
7. ...etc...
   

Sadly - I don't think your call for "peace" will have any affect.
It is simply the modus operandi for those of that ilk.
Wish you well.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by LightOrange

It was most certainly collated by him.

No, it most certainly was not "collated by him." Development of the Biblical Canon -- do you see Constantine in there, apart from the note that he legalized Christianity?

Although there's truth it in, your source is from the University of St. Thomas, Houston, Texas and only touches on official Canon, and on a website that looks like it could have been designed by a 3rd grade student no less.

In that case:

Ungodly Origins of the Bible

I know where you're coming from in that it was most certainly a non-fact asserted by many from The DaVinci Code. The DaVinci, code, however, suggests that the New Testament was created by constantine himself, which makes no sense because Constantine was 4th century and the New Testament was 1st century. The suggestion is merely a key element in advancing the plot of the DaVinci Code and it is very misleading

There certainly was a collation by Constantine and the Council of Nicea, though; it was not an official Canon so it will not be documented as such.

If it is not the premise -- which it often is -- it is most certainly a device used to rally support in almost every single war.

No, it is not. Read The War Audit and you'll see that religion played absolutely no role in 60% of known historical wars.

History is our friend in preventing us from making ignorant statements.

It is not what? A device used to rally support in war?

Funny, your article seems to agree with me:

The Israel/Arab wars from 1948 to now, often painted in the media and
other places as wars over religion, or wars arising from religious differences, have in fact been
wars of nationalism, liberation of territory or self-defense.

The US and allied invasion of Iraq is a war that has arguably been caused by religion: the
religious conviction of one man, President George W. Bush.

The Islamist fundamentalist terror war being led by Osama bin Laden, also often painted in
media commentary as a war about Islamic fundamentalism, is more about political order in
the Arab countries, and the presence of US forces in Muslim countries, than it is about
religious conversion of foreigners or expansion of territory in the name of God. Nevertheless,
as seen by bin Laden, it is a war of religious duty.

This means that even people who do not consciously invoke God as a justification for war
may be acting as if they were. Carl Jung stated, ‘anything we have heard or experienced can
become subliminal, that is to say, can pass into the unconsciousness. And even what we
retain in our conscious mind and can reproduce at will has acquired an unconscious undertone
that will colour the idea each time it is recalled’.

Again and again, in churches, temples, mosques, meetinghouses, synagogues and homes, the violence-of-God traditions are passed down through the generations, moulding our individual and collective psyche. As these narratives are told and retold, they become a part of our cultural and spiritual identity,
ultimately conditioning our behaviour, our understanding of God and our relations with
others.

Or were you implying that religion is NOT a key factor in many wars? Your article agrees with me again in regards to the Arab Conquests, Crusades, Fall of Constantinople, Mohgul Conquest, Reformation Wars, Thirty Years' War,Spanish Conquests, War of the Grand Alliance, Great Northern War, War of Austrian Succession, Seven Years' War, War of the American Revolution, American Indian Wars, US Civil War, Europian Colonial Wars, Russian Civil War, Spanish Civil War, World War II, Arab-Israeli Wars, US-Soviet Cold War, Northern Ireland, Afghanistan Anti-Soviet War, Iran-Iraq War, Bosnia, Chechen, Sudan Civil War, Al Qaida Terror War, US invasion of Afghanistan, and US invasion of Iraq. Each in their own varying amounts of religious factors, of course.