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Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by humphreysjim
These problems people have with atheists, this is an American or Middle Eastern thing. In Europe we are the majority in most places. Here in the UK, we are the majority.
Unless in "atheist world" 40% of the population is a majority and 55% is a minority, no, you are not.
2011 UK Religious Demographics
Maybe put up a few more bus adverts and you'll convince some more people to abandon their faith.
Originally posted by humphreysjim
Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by humphreysjim
These problems people have with atheists, this is an American or Middle Eastern thing. In Europe we are the majority in most places. Here in the UK, we are the majority.
Unless in "atheist world" 40% of the population is a majority and 55% is a minority, no, you are not.
2011 UK Religious Demographics
Maybe put up a few more bus adverts and you'll convince some more people to abandon their faith.
See the above discussion between myself, boymonkey74, and Merriman Weir as to why this poll will not tell the whole story. Then add the fact that the poll is a poor one, because it asks people if they consider themselves religious, which is not quite the same as declaring God-belief, or atheism, and add that to falling trends away from the main rival of atheism (Christianity), and you'll see your argument is not very sound:
"Religion: Number of Christians down 12% in a decade
The number of people calling themselves Christian in the UK fell dramatically between 2001 and 2011. Christianity was the only religion to see a drop-off in membership, with a 12% decrease during those 10 years.
The number of people with no religion at all in the UK has doubled since 2001."
Continued...
www.independent.co.uk...
Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by humphreysjim
Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by humphreysjim
These problems people have with atheists, this is an American or Middle Eastern thing. In Europe we are the majority in most places. Here in the UK, we are the majority.
Unless in "atheist world" 40% of the population is a majority and 55% is a minority, no, you are not.
2011 UK Religious Demographics
Maybe put up a few more bus adverts and you'll convince some more people to abandon their faith.
See the above discussion between myself, boymonkey74, and Merriman Weir as to why this poll will not tell the whole story. Then add the fact that the poll is a poor one, because it asks people if they consider themselves religious, which is not quite the same as declaring God-belief, or atheism, and add that to falling trends away from the main rival of atheism (Christianity), and you'll see your argument is not very sound:
"Religion: Number of Christians down 12% in a decade
The number of people calling themselves Christian in the UK fell dramatically between 2001 and 2011. Christianity was the only religion to see a drop-off in membership, with a 12% decrease during those 10 years.
The number of people with no religion at all in the UK has doubled since 2001."
Continued...
www.independent.co.uk...
Yes, I read that article yesterday, which is why I knew that your "Here in the UK, we are the majority" statement was invalid, because it also states that the majority of Britons are Christians.
You can speculate all you want on why someone would lie and say that they were part of the CoE when they're really an atheist, but those are the numbers in 2011, and saying "in my experience, those numbers are wrong" is called anecdotal evidence, which means nothing.edit on 12-12-2012 by adjensen because: tag repair
Originally posted by bowtomonkey
reply to post by Druscilla
I've enjoyed some of your posts but your scientific utopia is something too unnatural to enjoy or sustain. In fact I was reading Alan Watts describe this idea as becoming plastic, just today.
It's really a shame that people think the elements have to be conquered without ever noticing that we are not separate from our environment. (Alan Watts' main point)
I also noticed you launch a crusade against the lowest common denominator to your brethren. It's like that. Sad really. I don't need to stoop to that to show the fallibility in technology.
I've always had an avid interest in science but at the same time found that everything we are supposed to accept as fact always seems to change. I've later learned that this will occur without exception and as such everything we currently think we know will change as well. Early on I lost faith in the science fraternity because of the stubbornness it has with adapting new discoveries. TPTB in science not only have an hierarchy, research is focused on things that attract funding and they are mostly salary earners working within strictly limited parameters.
Solipsists on the other hand ...
Originally posted by humphreysjim
You can speculate all you want on why someone would lie and say that they were part of the CoE when they're really an atheist, but those are the numbers in 2011, and saying "in my experience, those numbers are wrong" is called anecdotal evidence, which means nothing.edit on 12-12-2012 by adjensen because: tag repair
The uselessly flawed and out of date poll you cite means even less. I live here, I know full well 55 percent of the population are not Christians. Sorry, you're just wrong.
Christianity has declined sharply over the past decade, according to the census returns. Numbers who choose to call themselves Christians fell by more than four million.
The collapse in belief in the religion which has been central to the history of the country for 1,500 years means that fewer than six out of ten, or 59 per cent, now describe themselves as Christian. A decade ago nearly three quarters, 72 per cent, did so.
Originally posted by adjensen
Oh, come on, a 2011 poll is "uselessly out of date"? It's the data that was used for the article that you cited earlier, so if it's out of date, then so is that article, which was written yesterday.
Originally posted by adjensenHere's another one: Now fewer than six in 10 say they are Christians as religion goes into decline
Originally posted by adjensenBy what data do you "know full well 55 percent of the population are not Christians"? That's a very specific number, and I can find absolutely nothing that says that.
Originally posted by jude11
It's not a religion, just a fact.
Originally posted by windword
reply to post by BlueMule
Are you saying that the phenomena of psi, or "ESP" of any kind is proof of God?
If an atheist acknowledges the existence of such phenomena then they are hypocritical, because it is proof of a soul and therefore a God?
Did you know that many scientist believe that quantum theory will someday prove and explain psi phenomena?
Originally posted by humphreysjim
Originally posted by adjensen
Oh, come on, a 2011 poll is "uselessly out of date"? It's the data that was used for the article that you cited earlier, so if it's out of date, then so is that article, which was written yesterday.
You're twisting my words. I did not say "uselessly out of date", I said "uselessly flawed and out of date". The emphasis is on the flaws. The being out of date comment is simply to make it clear that as numbers of Christians fall every year, those numbers come down even further.
I have also cited a poll that stated only 38% believed in God. I think the poll I cited is a better reflection because it avoids the issue of people describing themselves as belonging to a religion, and instead focusses on what they actually do or do not believe.
The first poll you cited named 55% percent as Christian, I am saying, as an Englishman with experience of a lot of English people, there is no way in hell that is remotely close to the real number.
2011 - 64,000 representative adults polled. 34% believed in a personal (theist) or non-intervening (deist) God, 10% in a generic "higher power"
Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen
The GOP had scientific polls that showed Romney was going to win the presidency, too. Polls can be skewed.
In this case, the question is too broad, and the data is pulled from sources, like hospitals and governmental forms, where the question of religion wasn't answered with the polling statistics in mind.
If the questions were worded fairly, and addressed as a scientific survey that narrows down personal belief, we might have more accurate data.
seems to be global-centric in not accounting for migration to the deadly harsh environs outside our little goldilocks nest of dirt where...
Your use of the word "unnatural" is emotionally based, where adaptation from biological to self-guided artificial evolution could very well be the most natural, predictable step
There's also the aspect of distributed intelligence, where one personality with sufficient resource may distribute themselves physically over a wide range of multiple semi-autonomous incarnations including simultaneous aspects in both biological and artificial nodes.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about their faith. That's a pointless and ridiculous endeavor on par with the energy requirements needed to split the atom.
Perspective requires no emotional attachment to any position
I enforce the positional perspective with details you've likely construed as lowest denominator-ism where such were only colors from a brush to illustrate a positional perspective.
Originally posted by bowtomonkey
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
Only to give balance to the ultra-annoying bible thumping clubs.
So you are just as bad. Your choice.
Originally posted by adjensen
If this poll were truly flawed, one would expect outrage on the part of the British secular community, pointing out the flaws, but contrarily, in the articles that I've read, the secular talking heads seem delighted with the numbers, so I don't believe that it's an invalid poll.
Originally posted by adjensen
I'd say that the verdict is still out, and you'll notice that I never said that Christianity wasn't plummeting in popularity in the UK, just that every dog will have his day, but the atheists' isn't here quite yet.
Originally posted by Merriman Weir
which might go way to actually inflate the Christianity statistics as I know a couple of 'traditional' churches that have been formally taken over by 'charismatic' forms of Christianity with predominantly black worshippers.