The 'Fiscal Cliff' will force austerity on the upper middle-class but not the ultra-wealthy.

The key word in the discussions over the so called 'fiscal cliff' is 'compromise'.

The ultra-rich have the rest of society arguing amongst themselves as usual.

200k is nothing compared to what some people are 'earning'. Its upper middle-class.The millionaires and billionaires will dodge any changes. The upper middle-class have been targeted for attack.

But when all mainstream media is talking compromise, you know that the Welfare System is about to take some hits too.

I know the Federal Government must stop overspending and start paying off the National Debt but the upper middle-class and under cant fix everything. Nor should they since they didnt create this mess.

Where are the so called 'job creators'? Why arent they putting their hands up? Why is there no talk of Corporate Tax rate going up?

'Job Creators' claim that taxing the rich wouldnt even scratch the surface in relation to US Debt. So why do they think austerity on everyone else will work? It didnt work in Europe. Europe just keeps getting worse. Greece, Spain and Portugal are a mess. This stealth austerity will lead to the same.

There needs to be upper tax brackets for the ultra-rich. The Corporate Tax rate should be raised. Its about time these so called 'job creators' stopped sitting on their trillions and show society that they are as important as they think they are.




The !% are sitting on trillions and their solution is austerity for everyone else and lower tax for them?

reply to post by spangledbanner

The !% are sitting on trillions and their solution is austerity for everyone else and lower tax for them?

Well yah, but shhh on the word "austerity".

It is only supposed to be used in the EU.

I'm not sure it's quite that easy.... Our entire Gross Domestic Product now sits below the level of the national debt. We're over 100% for that ratio now. So if you took every dollar of every good, service and earning the nation produces...(thats the same money counted a few times given what GDP represents)....then we still come short of paying the debt.

Now all the banks and corporations together...combined...are said to be sitting on a trillion or more in pure liquid or at least the annual reports suggested that a few years ago. I don't know now because the numbers don't show the same thing at present.

Raising the Corporate tax rate is actually crazy right now. Corps CAN and DO just wave goodbye and leave the nation. If Obama wants to off-shore more jobs, just make the climate here any more hostile than it is now.....and they'll head off shore as quick as they can make the arrangements. That's been happening well before Obama, of course, but no need to encourage it, I'm thinking.

Global Corporate Tax Rates

Business goes where they feel they aren't being gouged...and hiring the tax paying jobs generally makes up the difference with dividends....literally.

However, by going on the chart above, the U.S. doesn't simply have ONE of the highest Corp rates today, it has *THE* highest corp tax rate in the World. How much higher should it go? We can't tax what isn't here anymore...and they're leaving.

I'd also add..when austerity hits hard...it's going to hit right down to the lowest of the low class as well. Budgets for everything from assistance to the poor to funding at any government level for things like homeless shelters will be among those things that aren't critical. I'll put money on that..if I have any left.

*Correction.. I missed one. The United Arab Emirates is 15% higher than we are at 55%. We're #2, it appears. Err..... That's a list I wouldn't mind being at least the middle of.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I think it could actually work to tax the big corporations out of the nation and simply start again. It would create great opportunity.

There is great public outrage in the UK right now directed at amazon and starbucks to name a few for dodging tax. These corporations have no sovereignty.

We need to give Mainstreet business a better chance.

I am all for limiting the market share a corporation can have too. Corporation are destroying the world.

And it seems job creators are very happy for government to "step in" if its to help them and they are gunning for more of it. Quantitative Easing is stimulus for the ultra-wealthy and they want more bail outs in the future too.

The big thing for them of late is to talk about Keynes. They say Keynes would want the government to "step in" to help the economy. Stimulus for the rich. I think they are mad. I also think we would be fine without them.

There is no such thing as a Fiscal Cliff. Its all mass mind manipulation and they know how to pull your strings.
Its the reason you are where you are on the totem pole and why they are where they are on the totem pole.

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reply to post by spangledbanner


I agree. They certainly aren't helping our country. Lets tax them out and let small business take back over. Restart our manfacturing base. Sure itll be tough for a little while, but I think wed be better in the end.

reply to post by spangledbanner

Okay, maybe it's just the trucker in me talking, but let's be pragmatic here for a moment. Main street runs on Corporations. It's that simple. The Main Street Cafe get's it's products from Sysco, The other stores stock the shelves with things made by large companies employing hundreds or even thousands of people. Corporations when they get large enough. Car dealerships run off the car making corps...both here and overseas, but no Americans are employed when it's overseas. Likewise steel producers when things are made elsewhere or even the factories to stamp out the stuff that goes on to form products.

I hauled a bit of all that stuff over the years and it's what makes the economy go. Corps leaving America is a good thing? You're either exceptionally wealthy to say that, exceptionally poor...or someone else pays the bills. When no one is left to hire everyone else? We're all in poverty together. Equality in that form wasn't what the leaders of the past had in mind, I''d think.

That's the malfunction, among other things, of the current and most recent administrations. (Both of them) The Economy is a giant and unbelievably complex thing even people who have PhD's in it will admit they don't fully understand ...IF they are half way honest about it. It reacts to SMALL things....while Bush and Obama both bludgeon the thing to death in their own ways with sledge hammers and backhoes.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Great Points.




The Middle and the Poor will become the same. The Wealthy? They have lawyers to hide their money. They HAVE money to lose.

I know so many people who are going to get hurt, by the Bush Tax cuts disappearing. The very ones who voted for Obama. Lucky for him, he wont get another term.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I don't know. At this point I feel like it would be best to just start over. Let's be real here. Any REAL fix to the economy, and by real I don't mean anything either party is willing to do, is going to be painful. It's our mess we gotta own up to it. The can is getting to heavy to kick.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

It may be interesting to consider starting over....but lets try and keep in mind what that would mean in real terms for a nation of 330 million people. Starting over will, by definition, have a period of transition and flux where things aren't available. So...Who among the millions that barely hang on as it is...shall be cast aside to die while everything gets sorted out? I'm being real here....there are a good % of people barely making one day to the next right now. 10's of millions of them in the worst situation in decades this nation has faced.

To see this get worse...means we start stocking body bags for the fall out to medical and food issues related to the next lower levels of poverty. We're probably headed there if we like it or not....but I'm not looking forward to having grinding poverty IMPOSED upon us by force because some man in the White House thinks it's best for us.

I'm afraid a lot of people alive and whining about things today don't have the margins to survive whats coming in a collapse and won't be here either way within a few years...maybe less. Hope and Change... Gotta love it.

The US cannot pay its debts down. This leaves two options, go down gracefully or kill the debtor. Up until that point it's spend spend spend and the leaders say "hope it doesn't come to a head on my watch". But we are all like drug addicts laying blame casually while refusing to take the needle out of our own arm. I predict everybody will be kung fu fighting before it is over and horribly confused as to what went wrong.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I agree completely. I see this and its not like I like it, but it needs to be said. It's just around the corner and no one is ready. Everyone is so brainwashed and will remain complacent right to the end.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You aren't taking into account that just because a corporation leaves a country doesn't mean a new corporation with better ideals can't take it's place. I would wager not a lot of new businesses have been created in the last 10 years compared to the decades before then because large corporations help keep the little guy down. It's hard to be an innovator/job creator if there isn't a way to compete with already existing corporations of significant size. If large corporations leave the country then I would imagine that leaves room for small businesses to grow and expand or to be created if they don't already exist. Instead of holding back the little guy trying to make a niche. The niche will be wide open and the little guy can expand.