So, This Is The Guy Who's Pushing Us Off The Fiscal Cliff...

FWIW, going off the "fiscal cliff" (a little sublte alliteration there on the "L" consonate making the term resonate with everyone) falls into the plan of the progressives who are looking for higher taxes on the top earners and job creators (next to the government itself, that is).

You know what I find funny, the government raided social security now they are telling you it needs to be cut because there is not enough money. Its the greatest heist in history. They are robbing you blind

Originally posted by gladtobehere

We are in a state of crisis and we do need dramatic cuts. Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are bankrupt. When you factor in the unfunded liabilities, it becomes clear that theres no way America will be able to carry this debt burden.

Hes trying to avoid a fiscal cliff.

However, I disagree with his starting point. As Ron Paul has said repeatedly, before we begin to talk about domestic cuts, we should look at our overseas empire. Close the hundreds of foreign military bases, stop the endless wars and bring our troops home. This would save trillions immediately.

edit on 10-12-2012 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)

And we are here primarily because our government has been servicing the needs of the wealthy
with unfunded tax cuts.

It is very easy to overlook that part of the equation.

Essentially all the wealthy and powerful have to do it create crisis and they can force austerity by
manipulation, you think about that dynamic.

I'm sure it's nothing compared to the money George Soros has been throwing at the Democrat Party and various leftist groups to convince people that they should allow themselves to be fleeced by a corrupt govt among many other social issues.

Originally posted by PrinceOfEarth
You know what I find funny, the government raided social security now they are telling you it needs to be cut because there is not enough money.

Its the greatest heist in history. They are robbing you blind

That about sums it up right there.

Social Security isn't seen as a self sufficient animal because it isn't and it never has been. It's listed in every source and every place you can find or want to look as a line item in the Federal Budget. It actually consists of one of the largest parts of the entire budget. It and the Medi- programs are the bulk of U.S. spending, not by some...but by far. That Social Security trust fund goes by another name the politicians really get mad to hear people say.......the general fund.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I bet you if you add a few black budget Defense checks to our Debt, you might cut it in Half..........

Yes we can afford Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, what we can't afford is the endless wars and Military spending that goes up year after year. If Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid needs more funding, start doing something about corporations outsourcing so many jobs to China and India.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I bet you if you add a few black budget Defense checks to our Debt, you might cut it in Half..........

You'd be surprised.... It doesn't cut near as much as you might think, actually. The top spenders and offenders to the national debt going into the future are...well...it should be embarrassing for them to have to admit, the national debt itself.(Net Interest due) Also in the top are the Medi- and Social Sec programs though...and further down of course are the Defense outlays.


(It's a BIG Graphic...dimension wise)

That is from the XLS version of the U.S. Federal Budget - White House Proposal for Fiscal 2013. Obama's own numbers. It shows what is most pressing into the future by sheer dollar amount and it surprised even me. .

@ Thread overall

By the way, for anyone interested...as of 2010/2011 Iraq/Afghanistan combined had totaled around 1 Trillion for the 10 years taken together. That's averaged out to about 100 billion a year. That comes out of a 600-700 billion annual defense budget.. (The U.S. Annual Deficit has run well over 1 Trillion since Obama took Office) ...... Whatever the wars have done, the cost of them isn't even 1/4 of overall defense spending. Defense contractors do run 10-30 Billion in actual profit on an annual basis though. Errr... No outrage seems directed at them..

Of course there are the politicians who keep ordering the $10,000 hammers too. It really does start there and both sides smell about as bad.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Good stuff.

I was talking about the figures we will never see, or know about. The funds, hidden away under National Security.

And yes, its the interest that's killing us.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

Yeah, maybe the old people should just seize the assets of the United states that they are entitled to. We paid for the building of the infrastructure of this country, not the young people...Just because we are old, we are not dumb.

And yet my generation didn't cause this mess we're in. We were born into it. Our only choice is to either fix it or let the whole thing burn. IMHO, this system needs to crash to be rebuilt from the ashes. There is no digging ourselves out of this hole we're ALL in.

To the OP, had no idea this guy even existed, let alone pumping money into demonizing the system he himself and his parents paid into their whole lives. Like an earlier poster said, the government isn't here to make a profit, it is here for the benefit of the citizens. The benefit of the people ALWAYS outweighs the financial gains possible.

reply to post by thov420


It wasn't my parents or myself that created this mess. It was the politicians that decided they needed to hide their wasteful pork barrel spending used to please voters of their district. They saw a pile of money just sitting there and decided to borrow it. All the unnecessary tax payer money wasted to stimulate the economy everywhere is what caused the problem. Need a fancy intersection put into your town to replace something that works fine, sure we'll give you the money if you come up with twenty five percent. Need a new government office, an architect is required, a person who gets reimbursed based on completed cost of the project. The more fancy and expensive he makes it the more the architect gets. That's all right, it gives big contractors more money and stimulates the economy. I know of all of this, I've worked construction for a while and see what's happening. Government agencies waste money because if they don't spend it by a certain date, they don't get as much next year. Can't these agencies bank the money and still get the same amount so they can have reserves for big projects that are needed later, like saving up to buy something you need. This policy needs to be changed, the money should not be spent on projects that are not needed just to get the same amount next year. This promotes waste.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Good stuff.

I was talking about the figures we will never see, or know about. The funds, hidden away under National Security.

And yes, its the interest that's killing us.

You know, that poses a more serious problem and issue that you might mean at first. I can say from my own time swimming in the budget, that no black holes exist. There aren't any weird looking slushy funds that aren't pretty well called what they are. The nerve to openly state what some of it is, by the way, is stuff for another thread. lol... However, nothing is there to explain what must be happening off the spreadsheets that DO honestly account for every last buck of the 600+ Billion a year of defense and further 200-300 Billion in Homeland Security and known intelligence stuff.

So....Where IS the slush and black world funding actually coming from and how much is it?? Every so often I hear estimates of underground economy numbers which is everything from drugs to untaxed cigarettes to the day laborer working for cash unclaimed on any paper, that dwarf the above board economy in size and numbers. It definitely suggests a lot of room for them to be off funding themselves in ways the public wouldn't necessarily care to have happening, eh?

We know some of the ugly ways funds were 'raised' in the 80's for South America and the 60's for Vietnam but yes, indeed.. what more and from where these days?

That is something I rarely hear anything even mentioned...and not products 'which shall not be named' being specific things to make money out of ..but how much is running all that black world stuff for totals and what it's really getting done beyond our view? None of it can help for what's happening now in economics.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Defense spending is designed to protect us from foreign enemies destroying our nation. Domestic spending is designed to protect us from poverty and hopelessness ripping our nation to shreds all around us. Social Security was instituted to shut down the rise of Communism and Fascism within this nation during the 30s, when those two "solutions" were turning Europe into a roiling vat of mindless reaction to desperate times. We weren't far behind in our descent into wholesale transformation when Roosevelt determined that a social safety net was the surest and cheapest way to prevent a complete meltdown within our own borders.

Like I said, government's primary job is the protection of the citizenry. The most virulent threats against the average US citizen is, and has always been, disease, poverty, and the loss of hope in a future for themselves and their children. These three can't be fought by police or prisons or national guard. There aren't enough soldiers, cops, guardsmen, or private security contractors or Earth to contain the complete explosion of violence and mayhem that would obliterate this entire nation if the middle, working, and under classes suddenly learned that their government had really cut them loose in favor of debt reduction, while maintaining a defense budget that surpasses the combined military budgets or every other nation on Earth, and refusing to demand more support from the richest 2% of their fellow citizens.

Hell, if they really did put that Randian ideology in place, there'd be no United States of America within 5 years. Then what would the rich Americans do? No one else on Earth can stomach them, and certainly not if their nation (and its psychotic military machine) no longer exists. Theirs would be the last bones to be cleaned by the world predators.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The problem is you cant start a thread, about it.



You would delve into the grey of T&C, thats for sure......

Would love to post a bunch of stuff, relevant to this discussion.

reply to post by NorEaster


Well, you do an exceptional job of highlighting the fundamental difference between the 50% Right and 50% Left for the politics of the United States today. Divided we stand.

In my view and the views of most right leaning folk, Governments job *IS NOT* to care for the "well being" of the citizenry, internally, to meet every little care, concern, illness or issue a citizen may encounter in their 60-80 years of life. On the left, this seems a perfectly reasonable notion...but it utterly destroys every sense of personal responsibility and self reliance. Those two concepts are the punch lines for jokes to some people but they are the values others of us literally live by, every day.

I'll agree as does the U.S. Constitution, that providing for the common defense and well being of the nation for defense, international trade and commerce IS the role of the Federal Government in Congress and the Executive Branch, However, delving BEYOND that to meddle, dictate and force ideas onto the citizens in their daily life isn't freedom. That's tyranny. That is more and more what we have today.

reply to post by thov420


SS has been in trouble a long time. THis is not a new scenario. Politicians have been kicking the can down the road, and it is a ponzi scheme started by FDR in 1934 when he was taking our country into Socialist forays in a big way. Thank FDR for forcing US citizens into a govt subsidized retirement. And now we are going to be trapped into doing the same with healthcare and uninformed people demonize those who don't wish to be trapped in that.
Don't bother supporting Libertarian candidates if you don't really want Liberty, but really want excuses for socialized programs.

Like an earlier poster said, the government isn't here to make a profit, it is here for the benefit of the citizens.

You are right, govt isn't here to make a profit, it only needs to have a balanced budget. What is hard to understand about that? We will not have a balanced budget if we continue down this road of Socialist programs. It is unsustainable to use the Progressives favorite Agenda 21 buzzword.
No matter what the Progressives say, our govt is required to provide for the Common Defense, not to pay for people's retirement and food stamps and welfare and Section 8 Housing and programs for illegals and so on ad nauseum.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

In my view and the views of most right leaning folk, Governments job *IS NOT* to care for the "well being" of the citizenry, internally, to meet every little care, concern, illness or issue a citizen may encounter in their 60-80 years of life

Yes, of course you are absolutely right! This would be the Socialist Nanny State you just described. Our Founding Fathers never envisioned this type of govt but the Progressives had found methods of inserting these programs and convincing the public that the job of govt is anything BUT it's real designated purpose, to provide for the Common DEFENSE! There are Statists on the right of course, but the Progressive Statists seem to be in charge at present.

You might add George Soros to the list.

reply to post by NorEaster

Domestic spending is designed to protect us from poverty and hopelessness

It is only since FDR that our govt veered into Socialism, which is what you just described, the Nanny State taking care of it's citizens. Progressives have moved our country into Socialism more and more since then. Socialism is not what the Founding Fathers set up as our govt. Socialism is not Liberty and Freedom, but bondage under a Totaltiarian State. Mussolini coined the term in case you didn't know it.

Judge Napolitano on the SS Ponzi scheme

First going back through the history of the Social Security law, Napolitano said, “The money that is deducted from our pay here every week is spent immediately by the federal government. But the money that is paid to our parents and grandparents is borrowed. So, if that’s not a Ponzi scheme, I don’t know what is

foxnewsinsider.com...

Everyone should get a clue about what is happening here.