New Atheism movement is using ATS as a mouthpiece

reply to post by lambs to lions

Now, I know that believing in God, the Bible, and Jesus is not popular on this site. I'm completely okay with that.

I feel like you are trying to play yourself and other Christians on this site out as victims. But when you get into discussions with the religious leaning groups on this site, rational discussion falls by the way side and you get bombarded with pages and pages of bible verses.

I ask Christians direct questions and instead of getting answers I get quotes from 10 pages of bible text, all cut together making no sense at all. This happens in the science forum too...

Here's a thread I posted, that was critical of an actor who suddenly "found god" and showed great hypocrisy with his spiritual awakening. At least 10 posts on the first page in support of the actor, and against my opinion in the OP.

Where is the so called new atheism army that I just read about?

Originally posted by trysts
I can't think of a good reason to respect the views of people who believe in angels, gods and demons. As a child one is subjected to the brainwashing done by the church, parents, television, and teachers. This brainwashing is not considered a crime, but it should be, in my view. So yes, if the religious folks are not criticized for promoting their silly and dangerous views to impressionable, young minds, then we're never going to see a society striving to be morally civilized.

Dear trysts,

Well, as all wisdom must begin and end with you, we should all be required to have you tell us what we can and cannot tell our children. There is a difference between disagreeing and questioning someone's beliefs as opposed to claiming that they should not be allowed to express them.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by jude11

 

Perception is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened, but I see the anti-religious threads time and time again. I don't see many threads spouting off about "the damn Atheists are holding us back"

No but you will get smug comments in every other topic about how someone did something bad because they don't believe in god...

If religious people kept to themselves fine, but why is it they have to try and convert every single person they meet?

Originally posted by randomname
atheists spend more time talking about God and religion than the pope does.

they have this fixation on God that it borders on insanity and to a normal human being they appear angry, bitter, hateful and resentful to something that they believe doesn't "exist".

if they talked about santa claus like they do God, they'd be institutionalized, possibly for many years, and heavily dosed with powerful psychiatric medications.

but since God exists, people tolerate their misguided positions as long as they don't implement their atheism like stalin and pol pot.

atheists should re-examine their stance since something that supposedly doesn't "exist" to them affects their life so much.

edit on 9-12-2012 by randomname because: (no reason given)

Have you met all atheists then? That's like saying all Christians go around preaching and trying to convert people. Do they?

Most Atheists don't talk about god, because they don't care. It's like an adult going around talking about Santa, it doesn't concern most Atheists because it just isn't worth their time, they have better things to do.

Every day I go to ATS and see countless threads about god and religion, very rarely do I see a thread started by an Atheist against religion.

"but since God exists"

You seem so sure, yet you can't prove it, and any proof that you believe you have seen conveniently exists inside your head.

This has to be the most biased and blind thread ever created.

I'm not an atheist, [Snip] . "New Atheism" is a term made-up by Christians. Like all Christian movements it fails to directly address the questions that atheists address. Rather it side-steps, comes up with a new term to demonize, and hides behind deflection.

So while you say atheists are using ATS as a mouthpiece you are just creating some pseudo-conspiracy and not addressing the problems that faith pose and atheists bring up.

reply to post by boncho



I was in that thread. The man was highly hypocritical, in his new found calling to voice his opinion. After he said the things he said, he had a change of heart, and apologized.

There are those with a Christian agenda, but just like the Atheist if reason and debate go out the window, a thread will get sidetracked fast. I think both sides offer great points.

For me, as a simple human I will always question on how the Universe came to be. That answer has perplexed many people, and I haven't heard a good theory that has changed my mind on what I believe.

Originally posted by ColCurious
reply to post by lambs to lions

 

Originally posted by lambs to lions
"religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises.

As long as it is supported by rational argument I don't see a problem and neither should you.

Rational arguments work both ways... oh wait.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
I would argue that many times there is no "rational" argument involved...

Now those are strong words coming from a religious person don't you think?

Casting stones much?

So you are against tolerance? That is clearly what you are saying as the definition says that religion shouldn't be tolerated.

No, I don't think it is rational to take someone's opinion and make it your own, as though you are a empty glass filling yourself with someone else. I'm clearly not speaking about Atheists, I was speaking about those who take on other's viewpoints with no research of their own.

How was I casting stones? Did you read the OP?

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about. I say something concerning religion, and you try to find something in my post, anything at all, and attack.

reply to post by AQuestion

There is a difference between disagreeing and questioning someone's beliefs as opposed to claiming that they should not be allowed to express them.

I don't have a problem with religion or religious people practicing their beliefs. However, if you publicly display hypocrisy, or you openly try to convert people, or praise your belief in something non-existent (based on the lack of evidence) or at very best, something unproven or unable to be proven, you should expect others to challenge your opinion.

I don't find it odd at all that there would be a higher rate of atheism on ATS than in the general world. Atheism is still a very alternative ideology, this is an alternative site. A conspiracy thinker will most likely at some point question religion, and when this happens they may choose an alternate spirituality, reinvigorate their stance, or choose atheism.

On this site, I think both spiritualists and atheists exist at higher rates than normally in the world where traditional religion is by far the most common.

Even those that practice traditional religion seem to be far less traditional about it.

Personally I do not follow, or belong to any particular faith. I believe it divides more than helps. If people would just treat others with love and kindness and not judge what path another follows the world would be a much better place. Isn't that what most religions teach any way? Do not judge and love others now there is a concept.

reply to post by lambs to lions

countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises.

So the only way to show tolerance is to not question something? With rational argument.... (That, in your opinion would be considered intolerance.)

I am beginning to see why politicians love the religious right.

reply to post by AQuestion

I don't think parents should make their children go to church, go to schools that teach religious dogma as truth, nor should they continue spreading an immoral fantasy to generation after generation of children. I've known many people like myself who was brought up to believe that nonsense, and it's really difficult to overcome. It causes years of confusion, anxiety, and frustration to be lied to by so many people.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by AQuestion

There is a difference between disagreeing and questioning someone's beliefs as opposed to claiming that they should not be allowed to express them.

 

I don't have a problem with religion or religious people practicing their beliefs. However, if you publicly display hypocrisy, or you openly try to convert people, or praise your belief in something non-existent (based on the lack of evidence) or at very best, something unproven or unable to be proven, you should expect others to challenge your opinion.

Dear boncho,

You were not accused by me of anything, my words were to trysts who specifically said he wanted to stop people from sharing their beliefs with their own children. As for your questions, how is professing a belief in God innately hypocritical just because I do it in public? As for openly trying to convert people, that is what every thread is about, we are all trying to convince others of our position, regardless of the issue. You do it all the time in your threads, you try and sway people to follow your political beliefs.

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17


I agree with what you are saying concerning the amount of Atheists on an alternative site. However, this thread isn't specifically about Atheists. I have a few Atheists friends, they believe what they believe and could care less what I believe. New Atheism is different. It is confrontational.

reply to post by sonnny1

There are those with a Christian agenda, but just like the Atheist if reason and debate go out the window, a thread will get sidetracked fast. I think both sides offer great points.

This is one of those threads. There is no real argument here. Luckily I can't lose because I neither religious, nor am I an atheist.

I am a Bonchoist. I truly believe everyone has a mental deficiency, not just the ones that believe there is a god, or believe there isn't.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
I don't find it odd at all that there would be a higher rate of atheism on ATS than in the general world. Atheism is still a very alternative ideology, this is an alternative site. A conspiracy thinker will most likely at some point question religion, and when this happens they may choose an alternate spirituality, reinvigorate their stance, or choose atheism.

On this site, I think both spiritualists and atheists exist at higher rates than normally in the world where traditional religion is by far the most common.

Even those that practice traditional religion seem to be far less traditional about it.

Atheism isn't an ideology, and it isn't alternative, more people are Atheists than Hindus and Buddists and it's constantly growing (about 16% of the world, that's a lot). That's the age we live in, an age of knowledge where religion is not needed to answer questions that could not be answered when they were invented, people will just take a long time to let go.

That 16% is people with no religion, which is probably mostly Atheists. Places like America have a non-religious population of about 36%, which is still a lot, nearly all other major countries are 70%+, China is 82%, Sweden is 88% and the UK is 76%. That's the way the world is going, that is a good thing, we are becoming smarter.

reply to post by trysts


Paint with a broad brush much? Religion provides a framework for morality and gives people a reason to endure hardship. Some people can find morality without religion, but to toss it all in the trash heap is a bit dishonest.

Nobody has a monopoly on morality. Atheists in China and the Soviet Union murdered their own citizens afterall.

reply to post by lambs to lions


Your right.. I try to keep my mind open. I can take certain pieces out of any religion and gain something from it. They all have their good, bad and down right ridiculous.. I believe in a god, not a speaking one but if there is such things as Aliens, I would believe in a speakin god but that would not represent the one creator if you get what I mean...

When it comes down to it, humans invented words... I see the one creator not needing words to create the universe.

reply to post by lambs to lions


And yet , here you are ! I see you brought followers .

Originally posted by trysts
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I don't think parents should make their children go to church, go to schools that teach religious dogma as truth, nor should they continue spreading an immoral fantasy to generation after generation of children. I've known many people like myself who was brought up to believe that nonsense, and it's really difficult to overcome. It causes years of confusion, anxiety, and frustration to be lied to by so many people.

Dear trysts,

So, you don't believe other people should have the same rights that you claim for yourself while they are raising their children. Perhaps the government should determine what we are and are not allowed to teach our children, we call that totalitarianism and the government always teaches the same thing, that the government is God.